What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

[Job]

Since scripture does not give us a list of books to be included in the Bible from what man did you get your list of 66 books?

I believe I heard it on the radio. Don't remember exactly who said it.

.

 

[Marymog]

I believe I heard it on the radio. Don't remember exactly who said it.

How sad.

I thought you wanted to carry on a serious conversation. I was looking forward to your reply. Instead it appears you can't back up what you believe with articulable facts.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe I heard it on the radio. Don't remember exactly who said it.

.

prolly that guy Billy from NC, i bet

 

[bbyrd009]

articulable

Articulable - FindLaw
dictionary.findlaw.com › FindLaw Legal Dictionary
Articulable. articulable adj. : capable of being expressed, explained, or justified [police had observed drug sale and stopped defendant on reasonable suspicion ...


ha, i had meant to congrat you on making up a cool new word, lol. Lawyers, huh?

 

[Job]

How sad.

I thought you wanted to carry on a serious conversation. I was looking forward to your reply. Instead it appears you can't back up what you believe with articulable facts.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

Once again you assign values to my posts that simply do not exist. Why do you do that? Below are my posts in our little back and forth. Where do you see a belief mentioned?

I thought there were 66. What are the other seven?

I'm gonna take this as a confession that you misspoke.

I noticed you mentioned the 73 books twice so you didn't misspeak. Is there a reason you won't tell me where the other 7 books came from?

I believe I heard it on the radio. Don't remember exactly who said it.

You need to stop trying to read between the lines because you're really really bad at it. If you wish to engage me in conversation, all you have to do is ask. I would've thought you had learned your lesson after our last little dust up. I told you before, if you're going to make claims regarding my words, you better have your ducks in a row. It appears that once again your ducks are nowhere to be found.


You have a nice day Mary...

.

 

[Marymog]

Once again you assign values to my posts that simply do not exist. Why do you do that? Below are my posts in our little back and forth. Where do you see a belief mentioned?








You need to stop trying to read between the lines because you're really really bad at it. If you wish to engage me in conversation, all you have to do is ask. I would've thought you had learned your lesson after our last little dust up. I told you before, if you're going to make claims regarding my words, you better have your ducks in a row. It appears that once again your ducks are nowhere to be found.


You have a nice day Mary...

Translation: you can't back up what you believe with articulable facts so attack Marymog

QUACK, QUACK.

Thank you. My days are always nice.

IHS....Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

gee, i wonder why Christians are the world's largest arms dealers

 

[Job]

Translation: you can't back up what you believe with articulable facts so attack Marymog

QUACK, QUACK.

Thank you. My days are always nice.

IHS....Mary

You're right Mary. It's all about my inability to respond to your highly sophisticated comments. I don't know what came over me. Please don't judge me too harshly in your next conference with the Lord.


I realize all your days are nice, but have one anyway...

.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My best guess is the Apocrypha.

==== googled it:-
What are the seven books of the Apocrypha?
The Catholic deuterocanonical scriptural texts are:

• Tobit.
• Judith.
• Additions to Esther (Vulgate Esther 10:4–16:24)
• Wisdom (also called the Wisdom of Solomon)
• Sirach (also called Ecclesiasticus)
• Baruch, including the Letter of Jeremiah (Additions to Jeremiah in the Septuagint)
• Additions to Daniel: ...
• 1 Maccabees.

Actually - this is inaccurate.

First of all - these books are not "Apocryphal" works. They are part of the OPEN Jewish canon that existed during the life of Christ. This is evident by the over 150 quotes, references and allusions to those Books in the New Testament. For example:
Matt. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.
Eph. 6:13-17 - The whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Secondly - your reference to "Additions" to Esther and Daniel are not "additions".
They were later "Deletions".

As I indicated before - these Books were ALL part of the OPEN Jewish canon that existed until after the destruction of the Temple - some 37 years after Jesus ascended to Heaven. The Jewish canon was not closed until long after the Death, Resurrection and Ascension of our Lord.

The plain fact of the matter is that our separated Protestant brothers hold to a POST-Christ, POST-Temple rendering of the Old Testament. The reason was simple: Your Protestant Fathers chose to side with those who rejected Christ because the Deuterocanonical Books supported and solidified Catholic doctrines like Purgatory and prayers for the dead.

Finally - you left out 2nd Maccabees . . .

 

[Truth]

Hi truth,

I don't understand your answer. You listed the Septuagint, Tanach, Chumash and you seem to believe the KJV (translated in the 15th century) is the translation you can trust. Giving me a list of books you read doesn't answer my question: How you know they are the revealed words of God? How was this revealed to YOU?

I think what you are saying is that you know you are reading the word of God because of "Inspiration" or the Holy Spirit?

Who did the Holy Spirit reveal it to? Who had the inspiration to make the list or put together the books in the bible?

Mary

I know! you and BOL, and others claim that the Catholic Church, by the Holy spirit, was responsible for the Cannon of Scripture! And that is what you want everyone to respond with, Each and every one of those books I referred to were translations from different sources, the OT translations from the Jewish Publishing Society, are translated from the Hebrew to English, by Jews For Jews, from the Oldest Scrolls available. And they all read for the most part the same, everyone of those books I mentioned. As far as why I believe, As in the 10 Commandments, God starts out by saying " I AM " God, which in my opinion is in the Indicative, not Imperative command, indicating to me BELIEVE THAT I AM, so I BELIEVE that what I have for Scripture is the word of GOD. The Holy Spirit is for anyone who will submit themselves to God and Savior, there is no other requirement.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I know! you and BOL, and others claim that the Catholic Church, by the Holy spirit, was responsible for the Cannon of Scripture! And that is what you want everyone to respond with, Each and every one of those books I referred to were translations from different sources, the OT translations from the Jewish Publishing Society, are translated from the Hebrew to English, by Jews For Jews, from the Oldest Scrolls available. And they all read for the most part the same, everyone of those books I mentioned. As far as why I believe, As in the 10 Commandments, God starts out by saying " I AM " God, which in my opinion is in the Indicative, not Imperative command, indicating to me BELIEVE THAT I AM, so I BELIEVE that what I have for Scripture is the word of GOD. The Holy Spirit is for anyone who will submit themselves to God and Savior, there is no other requirement.

That's not true.
There IS a requirement that you submit to the Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Like it or not - and most non-Catholics refuse to admit it - the Canon of the NT was written, compiled and declared by the Catholic Church, being guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Holy Spirit is for anyone who will submit themselves to God and Savior, there is no other requirement.

Whosoever will may come

 

[Truth]

That's not true.
There IS a requirement that you submit to the Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Like it or not - and most non-Catholics refuse to admit it - the Canon of the NT was written, compiled and declared by the Catholic Church, being guided by the Holy Spirit.

As a free agent, for Messiah's sake, to whom I submit to on a daily basis. Not bound by any Authority of man, only God and Savior, I disagree!
As for the Scripture's you provided I will read in the fullness, for context, to see if what you say is True, as I will not take a verse here and a verse there to proclaim a fact! As for the statement above! the new Testament was written, or are you saying the New Testament writing's were compiled by the Catholic Church? being guided by the Holy Spirit!

 

[BreadOfLife]

As a free agent, for Messiah's sake, to whom I submit to on a daily basis. Not bound by any Authority of man, only God and Savior, I disagree!
As for the Scripture's you provided I will read in the fullness, for context, to see if what you say is True, as I will not take a verse here and a verse there to proclaim a fact! As for the statement above! the new Testament was written, or are you saying the New Testament writing's were compiled by the Catholic Church? being guided by the Holy Spirit!

So, then you disagree with Jesus' transfer of Authority to His Church in Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, and John 20:21-23?? Exactly which part of those verses do you have a problem with?

Written, compiled and declared canonical by the Catholic Church. HOWEVER, for argument's sake - let's just say compiled and declared canonical.

What being said - why would YOU, a non Catholic, adhere to a canon of Scripture that was compiled and declared by the Catholic Church??

 

[FHII]

Written, compiled and declared canonical by the Catholic Church. HOWEVER, for argument's sake - let's just say compiled and declared canonical.

What being said - why would YOU, a non Catholic, adhere to a canon of Scripture that was compiled and declared by the Catholic Church??

Well I will reply.

Nothing written in the Bible was written by a Catholic. Bottom line: Paul built the Church at Rome which was already in development. Peter later arrived and gave great credibility and help. But they started a movement which later became the Catholic Church. That's just history.

But yes... The Catholic Church did compile and declare what we know as the Bible. For the record... I have no date for when we officially had the Catholic Church which we today know... But i reckon by reading the works of Tertillian and a book by Bennett that it was more than established by 200 AD.

As for the Bible... As a non Catholic (and I am not a Protestant either) I absolutely believe that the men who compiled the Bible were led by God. 100%. If the books we call the Apocrypha are included. So be it... They are also included in my 1611 edition of the KJV.

 

[Marymog]

I know! you and BOL, and others claim that the Catholic Church, by the Holy spirit, was responsible for the Cannon of Scripture! And that is what you want everyone to respond with, Each and every one of those books I referred to were translations from different sources, the OT translations from the Jewish Publishing Society, are translated from the Hebrew to English, by Jews For Jews, from the Oldest Scrolls available. And they all read for the most part the same, everyone of those books I mentioned. As far as why I believe, As in the 10 Commandments, God starts out by saying " I AM " God, which in my opinion is in the Indicative, not Imperative command, indicating to me BELIEVE THAT I AM, so I BELIEVE that what I have for Scripture is the word of GOD. The Holy Spirit is for anyone who will submit themselves to God and Savior, there is no other requirement.

Hi,

I ask this question presuming you know the history of how/when the books of the bible was finally settled: (if you don't know the history I will gladly suggest some resources)

If it we didn't get our canon from the men of the Catholic Church then what men did we get it from? Which man/men do you choose as giving us the correct books of the bible? When did that list of books come together to be what we now call "The Bible"?

If YOU believe it, it must be true. I believe you are wrong so that must be true also. :cool:

IHS...Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well I will reply.

Nothing written in the Bible was written by a Catholic. Bottom line: Paul built the Church at Rome which was already in development. Peter later arrived and gave great credibility and help. But they started a movement which later became the Catholic Church. That's just history.

But yes... The Catholic Church did compile and declare what we know as the Bible. For the record... I have no date for when we officially had the Catholic Church which we today know... But i reckon by reading the works of Tertillian and a book by Bennett that it was more than established by 200 AD.

As for the Bible... As a non Catholic (and I am not a Protestant either) I absolutely believe that the men who compiled the Bible were led by God. 100%. If the books we call the Apocrypha are included. So be it... They are also included in my 1611 edition of the KJV.

Fair enough - but that isn't a complete answer.

First of all - the Deuterocanonical Books are not "Apovrypha". That is an anti-Catholic slur for those Books. They are inspired Scripture.
Apocryphal works are not inspired. They include works such as the Protoevangelium of James, the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Epistles of Barnabas, etc. Some of these Books were considered Scripture in the Early Church and read during mass. It wasn't until the 4th century, when the Catholic Church declared the Canon that they were officially excluded from being considered canonical.

So, the question is - if you accept that the Holy Spirit led the Catholic Church to declare the Canon of Scripture - do you ALSO accept the Deuterocanonical Books?

If not - why?

PS - If you are a non-Catholic Christian, they you are a Protestant by definition.

 

[Truth]

Hi,

I ask this question presuming you know the history of how/when the books of the bible was finally settled: (if you don't know the history I will gladly suggest some resources)

If it we didn't get our canon from the men of the Catholic Church then what men did we get it from? Which man/men do you choose as giving us the correct books of the bible? When did that list of books come together to be what we now call "The Bible"?

If YOU believe it, it must be true. I believe you are wrong so that must be true also. :cool:

IHS...Mary

As I have a DOUAY RHEIMS VERSION- WITH ME AS I RESPOND TO YOUR QUESTION, Translated from the Latin Vulgate- Approbation of HIS EMINENCE JAMES CARDINAL GIBBONS - Archbishop of Baltimore, Approved by said James Gibbons. all other Bibles read pretty much the same! So do I have the true word of GOD in my possession? As far as the RCC being the Authority, and responsible for the Cannon of Scripture, I am not an Educated man, therefore I have not researched into the History of how it all came together. I do know that Moses wrote the Old Testament up to Deuteronomy, and the rest were written by the men that followed. The New Testament books were written by the Apostles, then they were translated into Greek. So whoever compiled them I am Grateful. Truly Grateful!!

 

[Truth]

So, then you disagree with Jesus' transfer of Authority to His Church in Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, and John 20:21-23?? Exactly which part of those verses do you have a problem with?

Written, compiled and declared canonical by the Catholic Church. HOWEVER, for argument's sake - let's just say compiled and declared canonical.

What being said - why would YOU, a non Catholic, adhere to a canon of Scripture that was compiled and declared by the Catholic Church??

I both sets of verses- Matthew 16:18-19, and 18:15-18, the word Church comes from the Greek word Assembly, which also means the Body, or group of believers.
Luke 10:16- Our Savior is relating to the fact that those that hear and adhere to what Messiah said and taught hears Him. And those that reject what Messiah said and taught, not only reject Him, they also reject God!
John 16:12-15 - Messiah is speaking of the Holy Spirit, when It come's it will lead you into all Truth- No Problem!!
John 20:21-23 - If I am understanding you, then this Scripture, you are using to support the Priest's to forgive sins, only Catholic Priest's?

1st Corinthians 11:3 - But I want you to know that the Head of EVERY man is Messiah, the Head of woman is man, and the Head of Messiah is God
The verses that follow 3-5 are not about clothing, hats or scarfs, If a man relinquishes his Authority, to another man then he dishonors His Head- Messiah! If a woman prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her Head- Her Man
verse 6 - About a woman being shorn! in ancient time's Pagan Temple Prostitutes had their heads shaved, which was a shame!

FHll declared in his last post that the Catholic Church in fact did Cannon the Scripture's, and as I replied to Marymog, I am Truly Grateful

 

[BreadOfLife]

I both sets of verses- Matthew 16:18-19, and 18:15-18, the word Church comes from the Greek word Assembly, which also means the Body, or group of believers.
Luke 10:16- Our Savior is relating to the fact that those that hear and adhere to what Messiah said and taught hears Him. And those that reject what Messiah said and taught, not only reject Him, they also reject God!
John 16:12-15 - Messiah is speaking of the Holy Spirit, when It come's it will lead you into all Truth- No Problem!!
John 20:21-23 - If I am understanding you, then this Scripture, you are using to support the Priest's to forgive sins, only Catholic Priest's?

1st Corinthians 11:3 - But I want you to know that the Head of EVERY man is Messiah, the Head of woman is man, and the Head of Messiah is God
The verses that follow 3-5 are not about clothing, hats or scarfs, If a man relinquishes his Authority, to another man then he dishonors His Head- Messiah! If a woman prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her Head- Her Man
verse 6 - About a woman being shorn! in ancient time's Pagan Temple Prostitutes had their heads shaved, which was a shame!

FHll declared in his last post that the Catholic Church in fact did Cannon the Scripture's, and as I replied to Marymog, I am Truly Grateful

Apparently, nobody taught you about hermeneutics, which is the art and science of Biblical interpretation.

The most basic hermeneutical rule of the Gospels is this:
a. When Jesus addresses the crowds - He is teaching ALL of us.
b. When Jesus addresses the disciples/Apostles - He is addressing the Leaders of His Church.

In ALL of the verses I gave you - Jesus is addressing the latter.
Why you brought 1 Cor. 11:3 into the conversation, I have NO idea because it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Finally - a priest forgives sins in the name of CHRIST - not on his own.

So, I ask you again: Exactly which part of those verses do you have a problem with?