Unconditional love ?

[twinc]

besides my post 'go to hell' has anyone any idea of unconditional love - twinc

 

[Dcopymope]

besides my post 'go to hell' has anyone any idea of unconditional love - twinc

There is a difference between loving God unconditionally and loving others. Anybody telling me they do the latter is a liar, pure and simple. In the real world, unconditional love is a myth. The only one who ever did and ever will to any meaningful degree was Jesus Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a difference between loving God unconditionally and loving others. Anybody telling me they do the latter is a liar, pure and simple. In the real world, unconditional love is a myth. The only one who ever did and ever will to any meaningful degree was Jesus Christ.

i take it you and your mother are not close.

and that you are not a mother, even almost surely male, etc

 

[Dcopymope]

i take it you and your mother are not close.

and that you are not a mother, even almost surely male, etc

I'm obviously a man, pal. A mother loving her children is one thing, but to love the world unconditionally is another thing entirely. I don't know where people get this idea that we are supposed to love one another unconditionally because its not in the Bible. Lets break down what Jesus Christ actually commanded us to do.

(Matthew 22:36-40) "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? {37} Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. {38} This is the first and great commandment. {39} And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. {40} On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

It says we are to love God with our every fiber, meaning unconditionally. Does it say we are to do the same with our neighbor? NO, it doesn't, if it did, then the verse would be worded more like this:

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. {40} On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

But you see, this would be me adding onto his word which is strictly forbidden. You could even say that not even Jesus showed 100% unconditional love if you are to consider the way he treated the Pharisees.

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, seems like as thyself would cover that?

 

[Dcopymope]

hmm, seems like as thyself would cover that?

No, bbyrd009, it doesn't.

 

[Dan57]

I don't believe there's any such thing as "unconditional" love... or anything else for that matter

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm. Not the reply i would have expected from Dan either. And ByGrace agreeing to all this, i gotta still be asleep or something

I'm obviously a man, pal.

my apologies there, dunno about "obviously," but didn't mean anything by it

 

[amadeus]

There is a difference between loving God unconditionally and loving others. Anybody telling me they do the latter is a liar, pure and simple. In the real world, unconditional love is a myth. The only one who ever did and ever will to any meaningful degree was Jesus Christ.

What is this "real world" of which you speak? For me the real world is where we are when we are really "In His name" and He is really in our midst:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

What man calls the world is really a very temporary place or even a fiction which will be gone when we die naturally whether we have a "good" after life or not.

As to loving others, it really is a must, rather than an option if we are to have and after life with the Master:

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

 

[Dcopymope]

What is this "real world" of which you speak? For me the real world is where we are when we are really "In His name" and He is really in our midst:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

What man calls the world is really a very temporary place or even a fiction which will be gone when we die naturally whether we have a "good" after life or not.

As to loving others, it really is a must, rather than an option if we are to have and after life with the Master:

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

What "real world" am I speaking of? Well, the one God created that we experience with our five senses. You do believe that you are standing on a world that God created right? He says we are to love others as we would love ourselves, not like we are to love God. There is a big difference there. Not loving some guy down the street or my "brother" with all my mind, heart and soul doesn't mean I hate him, it means that there is a line that is not to be crossed when it comes to people. You being as old as you are should know better.

 

[amadeus]

What "real world" am I speaking of? Well, the one God created that we experience with our five senses. You do believe that you are standing on a world that God created right?

Are we really able to discern the real world created by God without being given the "eyes to see", which is of the Holy Ghost? Were we not all completely blind spiritually until and if we received a vision from Him?

The carnal man of flesh believes according to what his five senses perceive, but what does the spiritual man perceive that is different? Consider first what it is that carnal men perceive:

"But our God is in Heaven; He has done whatever He has pleased.
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they do not speak; they have eyes, but they do not see;
they have ears, but they do not hear; they have noses, but they do not smell;
they have hands, but they do not handle; they have feet, but they do not walk; they do not mutter through their throat.
The ones who make them are like them, and everyone who trusts in them." Psalm 115:3-8

"But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." I Cor 2:12-14

And then the key to it:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish; but he who keeps the law, he is blessed." Prov 29:18

 

[bbyrd009]

You do believe that you are standing on a world that God created right?

imo that is more properly termed "earth" and not "world," as the distinctions in Scripture make clearer. The world is not the earth.

 

[Helen]

hmm. Not the reply i would have expected from Dan either. And ByGrace agreeing to all this, i gotta still be asleep or something

Well Mark..can YOU say you love anyone unconditionally? Even that lovely mother of yours? ( BTW beautiful looking lady :) ) Whatever anyone said or did to you, would not rock your unconditional love for them?

I could ( and do) still love...but it is a kind of shrunken love.

I have to go back to what I know I so often repeat , sorry, but I have no other answer...
I in myself fall very short, I cannot love unconditionally. My only hope is that what I lack, God sent Jesus to fill that gap of what I lack. Therefore "In Christ" I do love unconditionally. Yet in myself I cannot.
I used to answer by saying ..." I can't in my own strength..but I can do it in the power of the Spirit." But, honestly, even if that is the case with some (@amadeus ?) I still fall short...so if that is the plumb line, then I will be falling short on that Day.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well Mark..can YOU say you love anyone unconditionally? Even that lovely mother of yours? ( BTW beautiful looking lady :) ) Whatever anyone said or did to you, would not rock your unconditional love for them?

well, i have no kids, per se anyway, but i'm pretty sure i love myself unconditionally

 

[Helen]

well, i have no kids, per se anyway, but i'm pretty sure i love myself unconditionally

Ha!
And there I go..I can't even go with you there on that one...many times I am so mad at myself...let alone love...

 

[bbyrd009]

I still fall short...so if that is the plumb line, then I will be falling short on that Day.

i doubt anyone comes to "if they steal your coat, give them your shirt as well" very easily, this is something we improve upon day by day, imo, assuming we are even trying. Today is a brand new day! :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Ha!
And there I go..I can't even go with you there on that one...many times I am so mad at myself...let alone love...

ha ya, but being "too mad" at yourself is really just another form of self-love, although the pathway is more convoluted.

 

[amadeus]

Well Mark..can YOU say you love anyone unconditionally? Even that lovely mother of yours? ( BTW beautiful looking lady :) ) Whatever anyone said or did to you, would not rock your unconditional love for them?

I could ( and do) still love...but it is a kind of shrunken love.

I have to go back to what I know I so often repeat , sorry, but I have no other answer...
I in myself fall very short, I cannot love unconditionally. My only hope is that what I lack, God sent Jesus to fill that gap of what I lack. Therefore "In Christ" I do love unconditionally. Yet in myself I cannot.
I used to answer by saying ..." I can't in my own strength..but I can do it in the power of the Spirit." But, honestly, even if that is the case with some (@amadeus ?) I still fall short...so if that is the plumb line, then I will be falling short on that Day.

My problem [and the problem with very many believers who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost] is still being unable thus far to completely and absolutely allow the old man to be killed. It must happen and will when the dirt is thrown onto our faces if we make with Him to the end. Then we will have only what has been able in Him grow to the end our course. If, and a very big IF it is, we were able to kill the old man as Jesus did before our carnal death, how much more would the new man be able to grow without having to also fight against the competition?

 

[Dcopymope]

Are we really able to discern the real world created by God without being given the "eyes to see", which is of the Holy Ghost? Were we not all completely blind spiritually until and if we received a vision from Him?

The carnal man of flesh believes according to what his five senses perceive, but what does the spiritual man perceive that is different? Consider first what it is that carnal men perceive:

"But our God is in Heaven; He has done whatever He has pleased.
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they do not speak; they have eyes, but they do not see;
they have ears, but they do not hear; they have noses, but they do not smell;
they have hands, but they do not handle; they have feet, but they do not walk; they do not mutter through their throat.
The ones who make them are like them, and everyone who trusts in them." Psalm 115:3-8

"But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." I Cor 2:12-14

And then the key to it:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish; but he who keeps the law, he is blessed." Prov 29:18

You asked me what I meant by the word world, of which I responded is the dirt we stand on, and you are for some reason harping on a whole lot about.............whatever your point is supposed to be. Are you saying that the world God created, which in the beginning was good, is in fact carnal? Will the new world to come be 'carnal'? I'm really not sure what your point is.

 

[Butterfly]

I'm obviously a man, pal. A mother loving her children is one thing, but to love the world unconditionally is another thing entirely. I don't know where people get this idea that we are supposed to love one another unconditionally because its not in the Bible. Lets break down what Jesus Christ actually commanded us to do.



It says we are to love God with our every fiber, meaning unconditionally. Does it say we are to do the same with our neighbor? NO, it doesn't, if it did, then the verse would be worded more like this:



But you see, this would be me adding onto his word which is strictly forbidden. You could even say that not even Jesus showed 100% unconditional love if you are to consider the way he treated the Pharisees.

Unconditional love does not mean that you like everything that a person does. I do not like everything my children do, but they know I love them regardless of what they do.
Maybe it's how we define unconditional that makes the difference as to how we view it. Butterfly