Why water into wine?

[Marymog]

Dear perrero,

Since you are not so sure she knew it was His time as opposed to that she knew He had the power to do something about it I will try to help you be sure.

I agree with you that she knew he had the power to do something about it because by the time this happened Jesus was 30 years old. I am sure that Jesus and Mary were in similar situations BEFORE this that she could have convinced Him to reveal himself. She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time and she pulled out the mother card. Mary didn't discuss it with him our argue with him. Mary simply said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you". Jesus, being a good son and Jew who knows the 5th commandment, knew dang well he better do something so he wouldn't show dishonor to his Mother ESPECIALLY in a public setting at a wedding.

Scripture doesn't say that God (his father) spoke directly to Jesus and told him 'it is your hour'. It says OPPOSITE of that. It says that Jesus DIDN'T think it was 'his hour' and that Mary (his mother) revealed to Him that it was 'his time'.

She was telling Jesus 'it is your time' by telling the servants 'do whatever he tells you'.

I apologize. You did allude to the 3 day thing in your OP!

My two cents worth......Mary

 

[Marymog]

Dear perrero,

Since you are not so sure she knew it was His time as opposed to that she knew He had the power to do something about it I will try to help you be sure.

I agree with you that she knew he had the power to do something about it because by the time this happened Jesus was 30 years old. I am sure that Jesus and Mary were in similar situations BEFORE this that she could have convinced Him to reveal himself. She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time and she pulled out the mother card. Mary didn't discuss it with him our argue with him. Mary simply said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you". Jesus, being a good son and Jew who knows the 5th commandment, knew dang well he better do something so he wouldn't show dishonor to his Mother ESPECIALLY in a public setting at a wedding.

Scripture doesn't say that God (his father) spoke directly to Jesus and told him 'it is your hour'. It says OPPOSITE of that. It says that Jesus DIDN'T think it was 'his hour' and that Mary (his mother) revealed to Him that it was 'his time'.

She was telling Jesus 'it is your time' by telling the servants 'do whatever he tells you'.

I apologize. You did allude to the 3 day thing in your OP!

My two cents worth......Mary

 

[Marymog]

It is interesting to note that wine can be intoxicating and cause deceptions. It is also interesting to note that there are many deceptions and false doctrines in religions of the world today including those who claim to be filled with the "spiritual wine". Many people claim to be filled with the spirit but are indeed deceived by the spirit within them. What they think is light within them is actually darkness.

Hello skyangel,

Which doctrines are false?

Which people are deceived by the spirit that are claiming to be filled with the spirit?

Curious Mary!

 

[Marymog]

I understand your heart is in the right place and you are doing what you believe is correct and you are teaching what you believe is true. However, all people who believe false doctrines, sincerely believe those doctrines are true and they seem to refuse to even want to consider the possibility that they are teaching errors and false doctrines or the possibility that they have been led astray to follow a false Christ. They seem to be so stuck in their ways that they simply just reject anything or anyone that challenges their doctrines at all.
The trinity doctrine for example is something carnal minded people have gathered from the bible and simply cherry pick scriptures to make the doctrine fit. It is a paganistic concept which has infiltrated Christianity and defiled the Truth.
google "Trinity pagan origins" and learn something.

But I do believe in the very real God who is always on Earth in the flesh and very visible to those who have eyes to see. I mean literally physically visible with physical eyes as well as with spiritual eyes. I see God both ways, physically with my physical eyes as well as spiritually with spiritual eyes. I see God in that LIGHT as the LIGHT because I do not live and walk in darkness. I live and walk in the LIGHT. I do not believe in some mysterious invisible God which can never be seen by any mortal man. I believe all such invisible characters with supernatural powers are as mythical as all the mythical Greek Gods, Zeus, Oden, etc.
I believe judgment day is every day for all eternity since in God there is no time, just eternity and Psalm 7:11 says God judges every day. If that is true, how can anyone claim that judgment day is just one single day some time in the future? People who believe that some pending judgment is a future event are fooling themselves and need to take a good at themselves and judge themselves today.
No invisible God will judge you some time in the future. God judges you and me the same way every day as righteous or wicked and our own words and actions either justify or condemn us since the Father does not judge any man ( John 5:22) and neither does Jesus. ( John 12:47)
So who or what judges us? It is the WORD which comes from our very own mouth which judges us not the WORD of someone else or what comes from someone elses mouth.
Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Therefore you can continue to threaten sinners and unbelievers with judgment all you like but ultimately your own judgment and threats judge you because as you see above the Father does not judge and neither does Jesus judge anyone who does not believe him because he came to save them not to judge them.
Matt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Therefore take a good look at the judgment you made against me and apply those words to yourself. Those very words judge you.
You may have believed rubbish at one stage of your life but you only replaced one lot of garbage with another lot of garbage.

I see the "miracle" in the story as being a parable and referring to something spiritual that can be applied to everyone every day of the past present and future. I am not gullible enough to believe it was a physical event that happened only once in history. No physical water ever magically turns into wine in reality. People who cause such things to APPEAR to happen are illusionists and GOD is the greatest illusionist of all. He can APPEAR to be evil when he is not and he can and does cause people to believe lies just like any Earthly illusionist can and does. He clearly tells people that he does these things but they are still fooled by the illusions and can't see the Truth in front of them because they have no love for REAL Truth. They love their fantasies and false doctrines and false Christ a lot more than the TRUTH which stands in front of them daily in the flesh.
2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
For what cause?
2 Thess 2 :10 .... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Feel free to preach and teach what you believe to be true. No one will condemn you for doing what you believe is good and right but I am here to make you aware that God is not a trinity and God is not an invisible Father figure in the form of a man in the sky.
To worship such an invisible character is no better or wiser than worshipping Zeus. To confine God to some trinity is also very foolish when you understand that God is ALL and IN ALL.( Eph 4:6 ) Does the word ALL mean three of something or Trinty? I am sure a smart man like you can figure that out.

Hello skyangel,

If people have faith in a false teaching would you not want to tear down that false faith and replace it with real faith?

Do you think it is a good thing to let people continue to worship a false belief and say nothing about it to them?

 

[Truth]

What is Theology? Theology is what a man or women Thinks! What matters is, is the Truth. so if I go by a label other that Christian, then I am not welcome in this Forum?

 

[perrero]

Dear perrero,

Since you are not so sure she knew it was His time as opposed to that she knew He had the power to do something about it I will try to help you be sure.

I agree with you that she knew he had the power to do something about it because by the time this happened Jesus was 30 years old. I am sure that Jesus and Mary were in similar situations BEFORE this that she could have convinced Him to reveal himself. She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time and she pulled out the mother card. Mary didn't discuss it with him our argue with him. Mary simply said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you". Jesus, being a good son and Jew who knows the 5th commandment, knew dang well he better do something so he wouldn't show dishonor to his Mother ESPECIALLY in a public setting at a wedding.

Scripture doesn't say that God (his father) spoke directly to Jesus and told him 'it is your hour'. It says OPPOSITE of that. It says that Jesus DIDN'T think it was 'his hour' and that Mary (his mother) revealed to Him that it was 'his time'.

Sorry Mary I think you're reading a bit too much into this. All she said was "they have no wine" and that's supposed to mean that she "She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time" A bit far fetched. Especially when Jesus replied to her that "mine hour is not yet come". And in support of that statement you'll notice that no one at the wedding, except the servants, knew that Jesus performed the miracle because it wasn't time for Him to go public, as He stated. Sure He honoured His mother, but that came out of His benevolent love for all who were there not because his mother said so, because once again He obviously states that "His hour had not yet come".

This is such a moot point, I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[perrero]

Hello skyangel,

If people have faith in a false teaching would you not want to tear down that false faith and replace it with real faith?

Do you think it is a good thing to let people continue to worship a false belief and say nothing about it to them?

Beware of the atheist Skyangel

 

[bbyrd009]

(cleansing) Water in 6 Stone Jars is turned into Wine by a Savior whose "Hour had not yet come" at a Wedding, as explained to a Woman; it shouldn't be too hard to understand this parable if you have been a Christian for more than ten minutes or so imo.

 

[Marymog]

Sorry Mary I think you're reading a bit too much into this. All she said was "they have no wine" and that's supposed to mean that she "She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time" A bit far fetched. Especially when Jesus replied to her that "mine hour is not yet come". And in support of that statement you'll notice that no one at the wedding, except the servants, knew that Jesus performed the miracle because it wasn't time for Him to go public, as He stated. Sure He honoured His mother, but that came out of His benevolent love for all who were there not because his mother said so, because once again He obviously states that "His hour had not yet come".

This is such a moot point, I think I'll leave it at that.

And the servants didn't tell ANYONE what happened? They kept it a secret?

In John 1, the first two days, John the Baptist publicly announces Jesus as the messiah and Jesus gathers his disciples. In John 2 and on the third day at the wedding Jesus publically reveals himself to be the messiah by performing his first public miracle. This first PUBLIC miracle, along with the others spoken of in John 2:23 (many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing) is visual proof instead of just talk. This visual proof is what led people to believe he was whom he said he was. In John 3 people flock to him to be baptized. Without the miracles talked about in John 2 MOST people probably would have looked at him as a crazy person claiming to be the messiah; the son of God.

He CLEARLY performed his first miracle (which started people believing in him) at the request of his mother even after he told her 'It ain't my time yet mom, leave me alone' .

She KNEW it was his time and forced his hand. She knew he would obey her and do the right thing. Perform a miracle. Unless you are thinking that she was expecting Jesus to pull a few hundred dollars out of pocket and go to the local wine store and buy a bunch of wine for the wedding?

Why is your OP not a moot point? Are you not reading a bit to much into this in your OP? Why can't it be a simple wedding were a miracle occurs? What makes my post moot and yours not? They are both interpretations of scripture.

Love Mary!

 

[Marymog]

What is Theology? Theology is what a man or women Thinks! What matters is, is the Truth. so if I go by a label other that Christian, then I am not welcome in this Forum?

Who has The Truth?

Curious Mary

 

[perrero]

And the servants didn't tell ANYONE what happened? They kept it a secret?

In John 1, the first two days, John the Baptist publicly announces Jesus as the messiah and Jesus gathers his disciples. In John 2 and on the third day at the wedding Jesus publically reveals himself to be the messiah by performing his first public miracle. This first PUBLIC miracle, along with the others spoken of in John 2:23 (many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing) is visual proof instead of just talk. This visual proof is what led people to believe he was whom he said he was. In John 3 people flock to him to be baptized. Without the miracles talked about in John 2 MOST people probably would have looked at him as a crazy person claiming to be the messiah; the son of God.

He CLEARLY performed his first miracle (which started people believing in him) at the request of his mother even after he told her 'It ain't my time yet mom, leave me alone' .

She KNEW it was his time and forced his hand. She knew he would obey her and do the right thing. Perform a miracle. Unless you are thinking that she was expecting Jesus to pull a few hundred dollars out of pocket and go to the local wine store and buy a bunch of wine for the wedding?

Why is your OP not a moot point? Are you not reading a bit to much into this in your OP? Why can't it be a simple wedding were a miracle occurs? What makes my post moot and yours not? They are both interpretations of scripture.

Love Mary!

NO! My interpretation of "mine hour is not yet come" is Jesus categorically stating that it was not His time.
Your addition, elaboration, and mind reading of "they have no wine" is Mary playing the trump card, she knew it was His time, she forced His hand, she knew he would obey her and do the right thing. Perform a miracle. Must be nice to know what Mary was thinking back then. You should write an Amplified Bible 'cause you have the gift. As for the servants, there is nothing in scripture to allude to them telling anybody anything. And so you can't build your case on nothing.

[Are you not reading a bit to much into this in your OP?] Apparently my OP was just fine according to what you said in your first post.

Bravo Sir! Very well done.

Oh! Are you Catholic? Is that why you're putting so much importance into Mary.

 

[skyangel]

Hello skyangel,

Which doctrines are false?

Which people are deceived by the spirit that are claiming to be filled with the spirit?

Curious Mary!

Doctrines which teach that a physical man will one day in future appear in physical clouds are false.
The people who claim to be filled with the spirit, claim to be born again or claim to be born of God and still sin are self deceived and deluded because the bible says that those who are born of God cannot sin because the Spirit of God the seed of God is in them.

 

[skyangel]

Hello skyangel,

If people have faith in a false teaching would you not want to tear down that false faith and replace it with real faith?

Do you think it is a good thing to let people continue to worship a false belief and say nothing about it to them?

You are asking me to answer my own question and the answer is I do my best to tear down false teachings and explain why they are false. I do not think it is a good thing to let people remain deceived and deluded by false doctrines. That is why I do my best to point out what is wrong with those doctrines. Allowing a person to worship a false Christ and saying nothing about it is as bad as letting a person eat poison without telling them it is poison. If you know something is poison, and the other person does not, they would be fools to not listen to you because they have been convinced it is not poison. False doctrines are poison to those who swallow them.

 

[skyangel]

Beware of the atheist Skyangel

Beware of falsely accusing others of being something they are not. Your judgements are totally wrong and unjust.
Just because I do not believe in invisible gods in the form of men with supernatural powers does not make me any more of an atheist than it makes you for not believing in all the mythical Greek gods.
I find it amusing that you do not believe in all the mythical Greek Gods but you still cling to the mythical Hebrew Gods.

 

[Marymog]

:)

NO! My interpretation of "mine hour is not yet come" is Jesus categorically stating that it was not His time.
Your addition, elaboration, and mind reading of "they have no wine" is Mary playing the trump card, she knew it was His time, she forced His hand, she knew he would obey her and do the right thing. Perform a miracle. Must be nice to know what Mary was thinking back then. You should write an Amplified Bible 'cause you have the gift. As for the servants, there is nothing in scripture to allude to them telling anybody anything. And so you can't build your case on nothing.

[Are you not reading a bit to much into this in your OP?] Apparently my OP was just fine according to what you said in your first post.


Oh! Are you Catholic? Is that why you're putting so much importance into Mary.

We agree: He did tell Mary it was not his time.....And she ignored his statement and "forced his hand" because "she knew he would obey her and do the right thing". Why did she force his hand? Because she had total trust in the Word of God and her Son. Either she KNEW, by the grace of God, it was His time or it was pure dumb luck. Which one do you choose????

So I ask you once again: Are YOU thinking that Mary was expecting Jesus to pull a few hundred dollars out of his pocket and go to the local wine store and buy a bunch of wine for the wedding?

OR did she KNOW that he would perform a miracle?

Your OP was just fine. It was well done. This discussion is not the same subject as your OP :).

Why does one have to be Catholic to put "so much importance into Mary"?

I want to make sure we are talking about the same Mary. The mother of GOD? The one who is full of grace and blessed among women? The woman whom God chose to bear His son? The woman who gave birth to and raised Jesus as a child? The same Mary that all generations will call her blessed? Who was there at his birth AND death?

That Mary?

Jesus thought she was important. God thought she was important. I think she is important.

Don't you????

Respectfully,

Mary

PS......Many of us Protestants have the same beliefs and love of Mary that the Catholics do. Even the original Protestants such as Calvin, Luther and Zwingli. How far have you fallen from the original Protestant tree sir? The Catholics are wrong? The original Protestants are wrong? But you are right?

 

[Marymog]

You are asking me to answer my own question and the answer is I do my best to tear down false teachings and explain why they are false. I do not think it is a good thing to let people remain deceived and deluded by false doctrines. That is why I do my best to point out what is wrong with those doctrines. Allowing a person to worship a false Christ and saying nothing about it is as bad as letting a person eat poison without telling them it is poison. If you know something is poison, and the other person does not, they would be fools to not listen to you because they have been convinced it is not poison. False doctrines are poison to those who swallow them.

The writers of the New Testament who witnessed or investigated the events they wrote about are all liars? Their written statements are false statements?

Is that what you are saying?

Curious Mary!!

 

[Marymog]

Doctrines which teach that a physical man will one day in future appear in physical clouds are false.
The people who claim to be filled with the spirit, claim to be born again or claim to be born of God and still sin are self deceived and deluded because the bible says that those who are born of God cannot sin because the Spirit of God the seed of God is in them.

You feel comfortable calling all those people liars?

Mary

 

[skyangel]

The writers of the New Testament who witnessed or investigated the events they wrote about are all liars? Their written statements are false statements?

Is that what you are saying?

Curious Mary!!

No, I am saying they were very creative writers who wrote about spiritual things in a way that made those spiritual things capable of being interpreted in many different ways. The writings have an ambiguous nature about them and have deeper meanings than what just APPEAR on the surface. The stories are filled with HIDDEN TREASURES which can only be found by looking a LOT deeper than the surface. It is as foolish to simply read them superficially and accept the characters as literal with supernatural powers as it would be foolish to accept a story about three little talking pigs as literally being about pigs which could talk. The story is about much more than just the characters in it. It is about learning lessons and principles which all people can adopt and live in their lifetime on Earth before they physically die and not need to wait for something else to happen before they manage to live the same kind of life as the character in the story lived.

 

[skyangel]

You feel comfortable calling all those people liars?

Mary

I feel quite comfortable and perfectly justified for calling a self deceived person, self deceived since that is what they are. It does not mean they are deliberately lying to themselves. It means they have fooled themselves because they have accepted a false doctrines as true. People who are deceived including with self deception are that way because they have been convinced that something is true when its not.
People who preach and teach false doctrines do it in ignorance and have no clue they are teaching anything false. They have been convinced that what they teach is correct. If they knew it was false they would stop teaching it unless they deliberately want to lead others astray.
The problem is that very few will listen to the reasons why their doctrines are false. They are too proud to admit their mistakes because they want to believe they are being led by the Spirit of Truth not by some deceiving spirit.

 

[perrero]

Either she KNEW, by the grace of God, it was His time or it was pure dumb luck. Which one do you choose????

I do not choose either one the scriptures do not say anything about her knowing it was His time. You are the only one reading that into the text.
Matter of fact when she made that attempt for Him to do something she was rebuke by Jesus who told "His hour hadn't come."

So I ask you once again: Are YOU thinking that Mary was expecting Jesus to pull a few hundred dollars out of his pocket and go to the local wine store and buy a bunch of wine for the wedding?

I can't tell you what she was expecting because there is nothing in scripture that says what she was expecting. If anything it would not have been a miracle because His first one was "water into wine". So she wouldn't have seen miracles before, why think of one now.

The mother of GOD?

I agree with the whole sentence you stated except "The mother of God". Nowhere in scripture is that term or name given to Mary. She was the earthly (mother of Jesus [ found 3 times in the NT] ), the Son of Man.

PS......Many of us Protestants have the same beliefs and love of Mary that the Catholics do. Even the original Protestants such as Calvin, Luther and Zwingli. How far have you fallen from the original Protestant tree sir? The Catholics are wrong? The original Protestants are wrong? But you are right?

Yes, the Catholics are wrong. They have raise Mary to such a high level that they pray to her instead of Jesus, they say she is the intercessor between us and Jesus, they venerate her, have fashioned statues of her, Like the Our Father they have a special prayer for her. Newsflash! She was a human being like you and me. A sinner like you and me, needing salvation like you and me. I don't care about Calvin, Luther or Zwingli. If they put her on a pedestal it's wrong. And I wouldn't quote Calvin anyway, he was a heretic.