The Greatest Lie Ever Told: You’re Fine Just as You Are

[bdavidc]

If that were true God's Word wouldn't have all the warnings about it.

The Galatians were born again and then fell from grace, but I know the the security in sin crowd does their best to explain that away

At no point in my posts did I write or imply that “you can live in unrepentant habitual sin and still go to heaven.” That is not what I believe, and it's not what I’m teaching. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I made it very clear that those who continue in sin without repentance were never truly saved to begin with. The gospel is not about giving people a license to sin, it’s about making dead sinners alive by grace through faith, which results in a changed life. Real salvation transforms a person. If someone claims to believe but lives in unrepentant sin, there’s no biblical evidence they were ever saved (1 John 3:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

Yes, born-again believers do still sin, but they repent. They don’t live in rebellion against God. They’re convicted, they’re disciplined (Hebrews 12:6-8), and they’re being sanctified over time. The difference is that their lives are marked by repentance and growth, not a pattern of willful disobedience.

Accusing me of being part of a “security in sin crowd” is dishonest and shows you didn’t actually read or engage with what I wrote. You’re reacting to a phrase you don’t like, not to the content of the post. Eternal security does not mean sin is tolerated, it means those who are truly saved are kept by God and bear fruit that proves their faith is real (John 15:5-6; Matthew 7:16-23). If there’s no fruit, there’s no salvation.

You're misrepresenting both the gospel and the warnings in Scripture. The reason God gives so many warnings is because not everyone who claims to believe is actually saved, Jesus Himself said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 7:21). The warnings are there to expose false converts, not to suggest that true believers can lose what God has secured. Galatians “falling from grace” (Galatians 5:4) is not about losing salvation but about turning from the gospel of grace to a false gospel of works. Paul was confronting legalists, not backsliders who lost salvation. If someone walks away, it's because they were never truly in Christ to begin with (1 John 2:19). As for the “security in sin crowd,” that’s a straw man. No one who understands the gospel would teach that a person can remain in unrepentant sin and be saved. True believers are not sinless, but they don’t live in sin either. They are convicted, they repent, they grow. If there’s no change, there was no salvation. God doesn’t halfway save anyone.

 

[Dash RipRock]

those who continue in sin without repentance show they were never truly born again

According to God's Word, one can actually get truly saved and then fall away and end up going to hell due to their failure to repent and come back to the Lord.

those who are truly saved are kept by God’s power

More false doctrine... this is accusing God of failing to "keep" some people and if some fall away it's God's fault.

We are to be co-laborers with the Lord meaning man does have a part to play in salvation as in choosing to abide in Christ which is done thru the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit... as man must choose to continually submit themselves to the Lord since God did actually give man free will when He created man in His Own Image

None the less man has the ability to turn away and God will let them go if they fail to repent and come back to Him.

None of this means they were never truly saved.

not sinless perfection

More false doctrine that claims we all sin a little here and there and we just can't help it...

You've been falsely taught from so called reformed theology that mixes lies with truth

Maybe someday you'll become FULL Gospel accepting all the Lord says in His Word.

Let me guess, you hold calvin, luther, and augustine in high regard believing they are of the Lord?

 

[bdavidc]

According to God's Word, one can actually get truly saved and then fall away and end up going to hell due to their failure to repent and come back to the Lord.

So, where do you find that in the bible?

 

[bdavidc]

More false doctrine... this is accusing God of failing to "keep" some people and if some fall away it's God's fault.

We are to be co-laborers with the Lord meaning man does have a part to play in salvation as in choosing to abide in Christ which is done thru the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit... as man must choose to continually submit themselves to the Lord since God did actually give man free will when He created man in His Own Image

None the less man has the ability to turn away and God will let them go if they fail to repent and come back to Him.

None of this means they were never truly saved.

The claim that saying “those who are truly saved are kept by God’s power” is false doctrine completely misunderstands both the nature of salvation and the power of God. It’s not accusing God of failing, just the opposite. It’s trusting that God never fails to finish what He starts. Scripture is crystal clear: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” (1 Peter 1:5). That’s not man keeping himself saved. That’s God doing the keeping. Jesus Himself said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37) and again, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” (John 10:28). If someone “falls away” permanently and never returns, they were never truly saved to begin with (1 John 2:19). That’s not blaming God, it’s revealing the truth of false conversion.

Yes, believers are called to abide in Christ, submit to Him, and walk in obedience, but even that is evidence of being born again, not the cause of it. Salvation is entirely by grace, and while man is responsible to respond, it's God who enables, sustains, and completes the work. Philippians 1:6 says, “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” True believers may stumble, but they don’t stay down. God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:6), draws them back, and will not let His sheep be lost. If someone walks away and never returns, it proves they never had the Spirit to begin with (Romans 8:9). God does not fail to keep His own, His power is greater than our weakness. Denying that is what actually questions the faithfulness and sovereignty of God.

 

[Dash RipRock]

So, where do you find that in the bible?

You're mind is already man up because you have been trained to not accept all the Lord says in his word.

If really interested so your own study and most of all ask the Lord for His Wisdom on the subject.

You won't be able to hear or accept it unless you sincerely seek the Lord on it instead of accepting man made religious teachings from whatever social club it is you have been indoctrinated under.

I went thru the same thing as a young believer being falsely taught one can never lose their salvation, but over time the Lord corrected me thru His Word after He started revealing to me that I was not full gospel meaning I had not accepted all He says in His Word.

It’s trusting that God never fails to finish what He starts

And you think if one did turn away from the Lord they are either saved any way or God somehow forces them to come back to Him both of which is not true.

neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

This does not mean one cannot decide to turn away on their own, it's speaking of third parties, not us.

You have been blinded by reformed theology and have been indoctrinated under the wisdom of man not God.

 

[bdavidc]

More false doctrine that claims we all sin a little here and there and we just can't help it...

You've been falsely taught from so called reformed theology that mixes lies with truth

Maybe someday you'll become FULL Gospel accepting all the Lord says in His Word.

Let me guess, you hold calvin, luther, and augustine in high regard believing they are of the Lord?

I don’t follow Calvin, Luther, or Augustine, I follow Christ and believe what is written in the Word of God. The idea that “we all sin a little here and there and can’t help it” is not what I’m teaching. What I am saying is what the Bible says: that while we are called to holiness and must fight sin daily, we still live in bodies of flesh and are not yet glorified. The apostle John wrote, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). That’s not an excuse to sin, it’s an honest acknowledgment of the spiritual war we’re in. Paul said in Romans 7:18, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing,” and he confessed his own struggle with sin, not as a lost man, but as a believer longing to be fully conformed to Christ.

Yes, the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and to live righteously (Titus 2:11–12), and we are commanded to be holy as God is holy. But we also see all through Scripture that even true believers stumble, Peter denied Christ, David fell into sin, Paul struggled with his flesh, and the churches in Revelation were warned about compromise. The call to holiness is real, but so is the ongoing need for repentance, correction, and growth.

The “full gospel” is not pretending that sinless perfection has already been attained in this life; it’s proclaiming that Jesus Christ paid the full price for sin, gives us His righteousness, and continues to sanctify us by His Spirit. The Bible warns against both cheap grace and self-righteous legalism. Real salvation leads to transformation, but if you claim to have no sin, you’re not just rejecting reformed theology; you’re rejecting what the Bible plainly says.

 

[bdavidc]

You're mind is already man up because you have been trained to not accept all the Lord says in his word.

If really interested so your own study and most of all ask the Lord for His Wisdom on the subject.

You won't be able to hear or accept it unless you sincerely seek the Lord on it instead of accepting man made religious teachings from whatever social club it is you have been indoctrinated under.

I went thru the same thing as a young believer being falsely taught one can never lose their salvation, but over time the Lord corrected me thru His Word after He started revealing to me that I was not full gospel meaning I had not accepted all He says in His Word.

You’re accusing me of following man-made teaching, but I’m the one actually standing on Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone, while you're adding ideas that the Bible never teaches. I asked a simple, honest question: “So, where do you find that in the Bible?” And you didn’t answer it. That speaks volumes. If your doctrine can’t be supported directly from Scripture, it’s not from God, no matter how strongly you feel about it. My mind is made up to believe only what is written in the Bible, not what others claim God told them privately or through personal experience. God gave us His Word so that we would not be tossed around by every wind of doctrine (Ephesians 4:14).

You say I haven’t accepted “all the Lord says,” but I do, every word of it, rightly divided, in context, and without twisting it to fit man-made systems. It’s not about being “full gospel” by your definition, it’s about not going beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6). You speak of being corrected over time, but I test every correction against the Word of God, not feelings or visions or someone's private journey. The Bible clearly teaches that those who are truly saved are kept by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5), and no one can snatch them out of Christ’s hand (John 10:28). That’s not a social club doctrine, that’s Scripture.

I sincerely seek the Lord, and I don’t blindly follow anyone. That’s exactly why I challenge every teaching to line up with the Word. And if you can’t back your view up with clear Scripture, then it’s not the truth, it’s opinion. I’m not the one adding or taking away from God’s Word. You are, and that’s what needs to be corrected.

 

[bdavidc]

And you think if one did turn away from the Lord they are either saved any way or God somehow forces them to come back to Him both of which is not true.

I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth that I didn’t write and don’t believe. What I actually said is that if someone turns away from God and never returns, it’s because they were never truly saved to begin with. That’s straight from Scripture, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” (1 John 2:19). I also never said that God forces anyone to come back. God doesn’t force people, He changes hearts. And if someone truly belongs to Him, He will convict, discipline, and draw them back through His Spirit, not against their will, but through transforming their will (Philippians 2:13).

When I said, “It’s trusting that God never fails to finish what He starts,” I was quoting Scripture: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6). That’s not man-made doctrine. That’s God’s promise. If someone falls away permanently and stays in rebellion, it’s not because God failed, it’s because they never belonged to Him in the first place. Where do you come up with these strawman arguments? If you're going to respond, at least represent what I’m actually saying, not something you imagined. Stick to the Scriptures. That’s what I’m doing.

 

[bdavidc]

This does not mean one cannot decide to turn away on their own, it's speaking of third parties, not us.

You have been blinded by reformed theology and have been indoctrinated under the wisdom of man not God.

I never said “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” as if it stood alone without context. What I said is that when someone is truly born again, they are genuinely saved and kept by the power of God, not by their own strength, but by His faithfulness. Being born again is not just an emotional decision or a religious experience. It’s a supernatural transformation where a person passes from death to life, becomes a new creation, and receives the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 3:3–7, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5). It’s God giving spiritual birth, not man turning over a new leaf.

Jesus made it crystal clear: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” (John 10:27–28). That’s not limited to outside threats, it’s a promise of security from anything or anyone, including ourselves, because salvation is not based on man’s grip on God but on God’s grip on man.

If someone turns away permanently and never comes back, it doesn’t prove that salvation can be lost. It proves they were never truly born again to begin with. 1 John 2:19 exposes that clearly. Accusing me of being “blinded” by theology misses the point, I’m standing on what is plainly written in Scripture. If you disagree, show the verse that says someone who is truly born again can be unborn again. You won’t find it, because God finishes what He starts (Philippians 1:6), and Jesus never loses those the Father gives Him (John 6:39). That’s not man’s wisdom, it’s God’s Word.

 

[Dash RipRock]

I don’t follow Calvin, Luther, or Augustine

Lots of people are influenced by the false teachings of calvin, luther, and augustine and don't even know they've been deceived.

when someone is truly born again, they are genuinely saved and kept by the power of God, not by their own strength, but by His faithfulness

So you admit that when someone falls away from the Lord, it's God's fault for not keeping them and He failed to "make" them abide in Christ due to your not understanding that God created man in His Own Image which give man free will making man have the full ability to decide to turn away from the Lord if he wants to after having truly been born again

Numerous examples in scripture of man having the ability to choose to turn away from the Lord.

1 Timothy 4:1 tells us the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

They cannot turn away from the faith if they had never been in the faith to began with. In this passage we see people CHOOSING to turn away and start following the devil. The security in sin crowd cannot explain this away although they love to try and seduce others to follow them in to heresy.

2 Peter 2:20 tells us For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

This is another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

Romans 8:13 tells us For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This is another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

1 Peter 1:14-17 tells us As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

This is another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

Jesus tells us in John 15:2 that Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

This is another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

This is another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

This one is speaking directly to "brethren" so we know it's directed at those who have truly been born again and is yet another passage that disproves the fake gospel of the security in sin crowd as it acknowledges man's free will.

 

[bdavidc]

Lots of people are influenced by the false teachings of calvin, luther, and augustine and don't even know they've been deceived.

Looks like you can’t answer anything without twisting it. You're missing the point of what I actually said. I'm not the one being deceived, you are. I said there are many false converts, and that’s a biblical reality, not a personal attack. And no, I never said it’s God’s fault. Just like it’s not God’s fault that you are spreading a false gospel that undermines the sufficiency and power of Christ’s saving work.

You’re using verses that describe people who appeared to be in the faith but were never truly born again. Scripture is clear that not all who claim Christ actually belong to Him (Matthew 7:21–23). They may have cleaned up outwardly, associated with the faith, even “escaped the pollutions of the world” for a time (2 Peter 2:20), but were never regenerated by the Holy Spirit. That’s why they go back, because their nature was never changed. They’re like dogs returning to their vomit, not sheep led by the Shepherd (2 Peter 2:22, John 10:27–29).

You twist Scripture to support an unstable gospel based on man's effort to stay saved rather than on God’s power to keep His own. That’s not biblical. Real saving faith results in a transformed life. The fruit Jesus speaks of in John 15 and Matthew 7 isn’t what keeps someone saved, it’s evidence that they’ve been saved. And if someone doesn’t bear fruit, it shows they were never truly in Him (1 John 2:19). Jesus doesn’t lose His sheep. They hear His voice and follow Him, and He gives them eternal life, not temporary life (John 10:28).

God does command holiness, obedience, and perseverance. But He also gives the grace and power to walk in it (Philippians 2:13). You're preaching fear and performance, not the true gospel. Salvation is not a probationary status. It’s a gift given by God to those who are truly born again, and the same God who saves is the one who keeps (Jude 24, Romans 8:30).

If someone “falls away,” the Bible says they never truly belonged to begin with. You can’t lose salvation because salvation is God’s work, not man’s achievement. Either Christ saves completely, or He doesn’t save at all.

“If they had been of us, they would have continued with us.” ~ 1 John 2:19

Just because you throw out names like Calvin, Luther, and Augustine doesn’t make your accusation true. But since you brought them up, it sounds like you’re the one focused on following men. I don’t follow men—I follow the Word of God. The issue isn’t about following men, it’s about whether what is being taught lines up with Scripture. If someone is teaching something that contradicts the Bible, then it’s false, no matter who they are. But if a teaching is faithful to what God has revealed in His Word, then rejecting it because of who taught it is foolish.

The real deception is coming from those like you who twist the gospel into a man-centered system where salvation depends on human effort, performance, or the ability to “stay saved.” That’s not what the Bible teaches. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, a work of God from start to finish (Ephesians 2:8–9, Titus 3:5). The ones who are truly deceived are those who think they can add their own willpower to keep themselves in God’s favor.

If anything, Scripture warns us not to lean on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) and not to follow our own hearts, which are deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9). So instead of accusing others of deception because you disagree with them, take a hard look at whether your gospel lines up with the full counsel of God’s Word. If your version of the gospel makes man the deciding factor instead of God, then you're not defending the truth, you’re distorting it.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Looks like you can’t answer anything without twisting it. You're missing the point of what I actually said. I'm not the one being deceived, you are.

That's what those who have been influenced by the false teachings of calvin, luther, and augustine continue to claim

You’re using verses that describe people who appeared to be in the faith but were never truly born again

That's you adding something to the scriptures that the scriptures does not actually say.

1 Timothy 4:1 is not a lie regardless of who thinks it is.

This is another example of the devil telling someone what God says is not true which is his MO and is how he deceived Adam and Eve so commit high treason against the Lord.

You twist Scripture to support an unstable gospel based on man's effort to stay saved rather than on God’s power to keep His own.

That's the false teaching that man was not given free will when God created man as we see across the Word of God.

I would expect no less from those who have been influenced by the false teachings of calvin, luther, and augustine

If someone “falls away,” the Bible says they never truly belonged to begin with.

And yet you offer no passages that specifically says that

One has to read that in to the scriptures since it's not actually taught in God's Word.

The Lord is not stupid - He would not be warning His people concerning turning away if they did not have the ability to turn away

If your version of the gospel makes man the deciding factor instead of God, then you're not defending the truth, you’re distorting it.

Jesus said only a few find the pathway that leads to life.

If it was all up to God then this would make what Jesus said to be a lie which of course is exactly what the spirits behind the false teachings of calvin, luther, and augustine are doing.

It's too bad so many have fallen for the doctrines of demons having rejected the whole counsel of God in favor gnostic ramblings