Limited atonement !

[rebuilder 454]

Adversarial comment

You are not adhering to predestination????
"Nobody choosing" doctrine???

 

[brightfame52]

That would robots.

What you need to see is the analogy IN THE WORD of the bride and groom.
That is the game changer.
Do a study on the Jewish wedding proposal.

Also, on a side note, Jn 3:16 is hard to wiggle out of.

Scoff all you want

 

[rebuilder 454]

Scoff all you want

I teach you on the bride.
You call that scoffing.
Oh well

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ die for those represented in this world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 11

 

[brightfame52]

I teach you on the bride.
You call that scoffing.
Oh well

See posts 681 and 683 and explain them back to me about limited atonement

 

[brightfame52]

Christs atoning death is limited to them He is and was a representative head for, now was that for all the entire world ? No it was not Eph 1:22-23

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[Rightglory]

Wow!...that’s a powerful verse of scripture...certainly spoke to my spirit/ heart..

Full context of scripture.as we can see, it’s the Father who gives us to Jesus....no one can come to the Son except through the Father..

John 17​

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King James Version​

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17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me;for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

What a complete misunderstanding of scripture. First by Brightfame52, then you who agrees with him.
John 17 is Christs Pastoral Prayer. It is divided into 4 sections. Verses 1-5 is His prayer for Himself. Vs 6-19 He prays for His disciples. Vs 20-23 He prays for the Church. Lastly vs 24-26 He prays for everyone else. So, Yes, He did pray for the world. He prayed for those who are not yet part of His Church.

Brightfame52 needs vs to support his errant view of limited atonement. So when he finds a phrase that Christ did not pray for the world, which fits his theory, he uses it even though the context has nothing to do with limited atonement

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

Lastly vs 24-26 He prays for everyone else.

False, He never prayed for everyone in the world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And this is a High Priestly Prayer, He is about to sacrifice Himself as Great Hight Priest vs 19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Christ died as a High Priest sacrifice for a particular People, not all mankind Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

You always make off the wall comments without proof

 

[Ritajanice]

What a complete misunderstanding of scripture. First by Brightfame52, then you who agrees with him.
John 17 is Christs Pastoral Prayer. It is divided into 4 sections. Verses 1-5 is His prayer for Himself. Vs 6-19 He prays for His disciples. Vs 20-23 He prays for the Church. Lastly vs 24-26 He prays for everyone else. So, Yes, He did pray for the world. He prayed for those who are not yet part of His Church.

Brightfame52 needs vs to support his errant view of limited atonement. So when he finds a phrase that Christ did not pray for the world, which fits his theory, he uses it even though the context has nothing to do with limited atonement

I will leave you and Brightfame to argue it out...as you have both been doing for the past 708 posts lol.

I don’t need to understand limited atonement....as my spirit knows that it’s been birthed..Spirit gives birth to spirit...

I’m in the spiritual realm....Praise God....I posted long posts to you, then decided to delete them all....as I’m not interested in this back and forth arguing that you and Brightfame are doing...

I will leave you two, to it..LOL.

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God...= spiritual birth.= Spirit gives birth to spirit
...that needs no Bible to be present...as it’s a Living supernatural act that only the Living Spirit can perform.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You not prepared to defend your presentation, you just drop it off on your opponent, thats cowardly

I've given you Scriptural proof that Limited Atonement is a FALSE doctrine.

It’s blindingly-clear that YOU are afraid to engage in this topic because the weight of Scripture is against you. You have simply rejected my evidence without providing ANY of your own. Ummmm, talk about cowardly . . .

Oh yeah, 16th century ? Then prove it

Limited Atonement is the “L” in the “T.U.L.I.P” of 5-Point Calvinism, which was invented by John Calvin in the 15th century in which he lived (1509-1564).

Now, instead of constantly running away - why don’t YOU prove this false doctrine in light of the Biblical verses I’ve TWICE presented?
Once again - -if you can't defend it, just say so . . .

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



False, He never prayed for everyone in the world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And this is a High Priestly Prayer, He is about to sacrifice Himself as Great Hight Priest vs 19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Christ died as a High Priest sacrifice for a particular People, not all mankind Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

You always make off the wall comments without proof

You can continue to make rediculous assertions about contexts, and content, that makes no sense whatsoever. You twist, rewrite, make up new meanings of words that one cannot even find in a dictionary just to attempt to support your theory of limited atonement.
The problem you don't even understand atonement. I could ask you rhetorical questions like, did Jesus die only half way, or did He only have one drop of blood. Just how could His atonement be limited? You have never given any scripture texts that show just how it might have been limited. You have no theological perspective of your theory. There is so much of scripture that denies the whole matrix of your theory which is why you need to pick and choose phrases out of context to shore up your theory. The off the wall comments are all made by you. Any 6th grader could decipher the different contexts of Christ's Pastoral Prayer. You do the same with Heb 2:17 which has nothing to do with a limited atonement. The whole context is about Christ becoming man, assuming our human nature. The text says He did this so He could propitiate our sins and make reconciliation to God. Now the real question, does it say His people or THE PEOPLE? The people is referring to vs 14 of Christ becoming man the same as we are. Now if you want to have some kind of limitation, you need to posit that some human beings are so different they don't even have the same nature as others. Namely HIS people have the same nature as Christ, And the rest of us were never part of Christ "human nature".
You should do a serious study of your theory without your blinders on to see the unbiblical ramifications of your theory.

 

[brightfame52]

I've given you Scriptural proof that Limited Atonement is a FALSE doctrine.

It’s blindingly-clear that YOU are afraid to engage in this topic because the weight of Scripture is against you. You have simply rejected my evidence without providing ANY of your own. Ummmm, talk about cowardly . . .

Limited Atonement is the “L” in the “T.U.L.I.P” of 5-Point Calvinism, which was invented by John Calvin in the 15th century in which he lived (1509-1564).

Now, instead of constantly running away - why don’t YOU prove this false doctrine in light of the Biblical verses I’ve TWICE presented?
Once again - -if you can't defend it, just say so . . .

You gave scripture with no exegesis, anyone can unload a bunch of scripture on somebody

 

[brightfame52]

You can continue to make rediculous assertions about contexts, and content, that makes no sense whatsoever. You twist, rewrite, make up new meanings of words that one cannot even find in a dictionary just to attempt to support your theory of limited atonement.
The problem you don't even understand atonement. I could ask you rhetorical questions like, did Jesus die only half way, or did He only have one drop of blood. Just how could His atonement be limited? You have never given any scripture texts that show just how it might have been limited. You have no theological perspective of your theory. There is so much of scripture that denies the whole matrix of your theory which is why you need to pick and choose phrases out of context to shore up your theory. The off the wall comments are all made by you. Any 6th grader could decipher the different contexts of Christ's Pastoral Prayer. You do the same with Heb 2:17 which has nothing to do with a limited atonement. The whole context is about Christ becoming man, assuming our human nature. The text says He did this so He could propitiate our sins and make reconciliation to God. Now the real question, does it say His people or THE PEOPLE? The people is referring to vs 14 of Christ becoming man the same as we are. Now if you want to have some kind of limitation, you need to posit that some human beings are so different they don't even have the same nature as others. Namely HIS people have the same nature as Christ, And the rest of us were never part of Christ "human nature".
You should do a serious study of your theory without your blinders on to see the unbiblical ramifications of your theory.

He never prayed for everyone in the world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

 

[Rightglory]

He never prayed for everyone in the world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

You are correct, He was praying for His disciples in vs 9. He prayed for all others, the world in vs 24-26, context, context, context.

 

[brightfame52]

You are correct, He was praying for His disciples in vs 9. He prayed for all others, the world in vs 24-26, context, context, context.

He was praying for more than His disciples, them plus as many as God had given Him. Yet He wasnt praying for the entire world.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Jesus Christ die for them which its written Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.11

 

[Rightglory]

He was praying for more than His disciples, them plus as many as God had given Him. Yet He wasnt praying for the entire world.

So you keep saying. However, that does not change what it says and means. And by the way, what it has meant since the Gospel was written and taught to the first century Church.

 

[Rightglory]

Did Jesus Christ die for them which its written Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.11

Yes, He tasted death for everyone. Heb 2:9

 

[brightfame52]

So you keep saying. However, that does not change what it says and means. And by the way, what it has meant since the Gospel was written and taught to the first century Church.

Yes the scripture is always written to the saints about the saints, Christ only died for the saints

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, He tasted death for everyone. Heb 2:9

Actually them whose names were not written in the lambs book from the foundation, they are exempt from them the Lamb tasted death for in Heb 2:9

Later on in the Hebrew epistle mention is made of those whose names were/are written in heaven Heb 12:23

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Christ tasted death for all the church of the firstborn