The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric

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Matthias

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Nicene Christianity always rattles its theological sword. That’s a constraint of history. (See the creeds.) That’s all it can do these days, unlike the days of its past. That, too, is a constraint of history.

“Fear not,“ is the reply of the Jewish monotheist who placed his trust and confidence in the God of Jewish monotheism. ”You believe in God; believe also in me.” I do.
 

Mindcruiser

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I understand precisely what I say since I speak from Scripture's clear and consistent witness rather than confusion or error. The divinity of Jesus exists as God who shares an eternal unity with the Father while remaining a distinct individual and this truth comes from divine revelation rather than human invention. The Word of God reveals this truth in its entirety. The opening verse of John 1:1 states emphatically, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This statement represents straightforward divine scripture without any distortion. Jesus Himself said in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." His statement expressed unity not just in purpose but also in nature and essence. The Jews chose to stone Him because His declaration of equality with God was unacceptable to them (John 10:33).

Your argument claims that equating the Son in every respect causes confusion yet the real confusion arises from dismissing the complete biblical testimony. Verses in Philippians 2:6 declare Christ as God by nature yet did not exploit His divine status for personal gain. And Hebrews 1:3 describes the Son as “the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being,” which reflects full divinity rather than a lesser or derivative form of deity.

You seek examples that center Christ and challenge the notion of a Father-exclusive perspective. Consider John 14: Jesus declares Himself to be the way to reach the Father as well as the truth and life. Jesus does not function as a guide to truth because He embodies truth itself. He functions beyond a simple messenger of holy words because He embodies the Word made flesh as stated in John 1:14. When Thomas asked to see the Father, Jesus responded in John 14: The phrase "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" represents not a simple analogy but rather a profound disclosure.

Rejecting this understanding means twisting Scripture rather than preserving it. You accuse me of promoting AI-generated confusion, but I’m proclaiming the eternal truth that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1: Colossians 2:9 identifies Him as the bodily dwelling place of the fullness of deity. The biblical teaching reveals to us the triune character of the sole genuine God rather than exhibiting any favor toward concepts of multiple gods.

I declare this from a position of understanding while basing my argument on the Word instead of human tradition or philosophical speculation. Your perspective reduces Jesus to a mere man and establishes a counterfeit Christ figure who lacks saving power. The biblical Jesus stands as Immanuel who reveals God to us while being the exclusive path to understanding the Father.

You must turn away from manipulating Scripture to support a man-centered theology that rejects the complete divinity of Jesus Christ. You are spreading a distorted message which drives people away from God's true revelation in Jesus. Your actions are distorting the truth instead of preserving it. Human logic should not reshape the Word of God because we must accept it in its given form even when it challenges our beliefs. Peter's message in 2 Peter 3:16 warns us about the risks of misinterpreting difficult passages of Scripture. This misinterpretation can lead to destruction for those who are uninformed and unstable. Jesus said in John 8: The phrase “I am” deliberately asserts Jesus’ identity as God. Your disagreement goes beyond theological discussion because you reject the essential nature of Christ. This issue goes beyond minor disputes because it directly impacts salvation. Repent and accept the scriptural witness that declares the Son as fully divine and co-eternal with the Father while being humanity's sole Savior.
Well, I definitely do not want what you ordered off the breakfast menu this morning. It might make me sick to my stomach.

Your taste in foods and recipes for life eternal is quite different than mine. Yours are dead on arrival and my are alive and zesty.

Why did you waste your and my time with this form of drawn-out confession of faith of the popular pagan religious system you idolize? I know of it quite well. I do not need a re-run of it. You do not see a one person, and personal Father God in scripture, and there lies the real issue and rub.

So, I will not address your text because you are at the point of believing I now require another salvific repentance act, this time for your god or gods of three persons. No thank you.

You know the only reason why you can legally call your god and your practice of it monotheism, is because of the 'common one substance' clause invented to gel or unify the Triune theory of a non-descript god together. That is why your god will always be an 'it' a 'what' and never a personal 'who' or him. I think you can figure this out with some research.
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So you think you truly know scripture?

Can you provide a short commentary and explanation for why Jesus prayed to his Father, who is his God by the way, hours before his death on the Cross?

Can you see Jesus' divinity, as also being the same exact divinity as his Father's in this topic? Can you see he is also the same God as his Father? Can you see that Jesus is very dependent upon his Father, for his very current and future existence?

I expect you can answer all these questions in your commentary quite easily. Although it will be only through the lens of your Trine belief model.

Now can you also refrain from the temptation of using any human devices that are used to prop up your religious belief model that is absent from scripture, such as: pre-existence of the Son, incarnation, kenosis or dual natures - hypostasis, into the discussion.

These religious terms are repugnant and repulsive to scripture. They mix like oil and water. Although you might continue to preach that they are soluble, they are not. And you need to recognize this as fact.
 

ScottA

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I’m a 1st century primitive Christian living where God placed me, in the 21st century. I’m faithful to God, just as my spiritual ancestors in the church were. Being anathematized by those who went beyond what they believed underscores my faith in our God.

Just as Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist, so too is Paul - and all of the other apostles - and the earliest members of the church. Jewish monotheists aren’t trinitarians.

I’m faithful to the time and purpose appointed by God to me. I’m right where I’m supposed to be.

Relating this back to the OP, it is natural that my view of scripture (and that of Jewish monotheism) is God-centered.
Unfortunately, you're missing the point: God did not make any of us [to serve] for another time...but for a time such as "this."
 

Matthias

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Unfortunately, you're missing the point: God did not make any of us [to serve] for another time...but for a time such as "this."

I don’t see that you have a point. My belief in God and in the Messiah has me serving in this time.
 

ScottA

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Can you provide a short commentary and explanation for why Jesus prayed to his Father, who is his God by the way, hours before his death on the Cross?

Can you see Jesus' divinity, as also being the same exact divinity as his Father's in this topic? Can you see he is also the same God as his Father? Can you see that Jesus is very dependent upon his Father, for his very current and future existence?
Not to answer for bdavidc, but you ask too much and claim too much, because you do not understand. You are approaching the issue with the logic of men. God is more, but you have set your own perceived limit, which is not true, nor good for you to do.

Our first and natural perspective is to do exactly that, to assume our own limits also pertain to God. They do not. Yes, we are made in His image--but it is a poor and dim image at best. We therefore translate heavenly, godly things to worldly things, things of men and this world, in our own favor--poorly, and in error.

But God.

But man--the measure that you have based your understanding on by word and by acts witnessed even by Christ--can a man manifest himself in a poor image and go out and do what he wills, and have it be him and not a mere image? No. But God--but God can, and He has. Can a mere man send out his intentions by mere thought, and have the things he wills to do, be so? God can.

Again--you ask too much...and by that measure...
 

ScottA

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I don’t see that you have a point. My belief in God and in the Messiah has me serving in this time.
Yes, it is obvious that you do not see the point.

You go back to spiritual Egypt...which, no, is not serving God.

Messiah gave the timeline by which to serve, saying "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected." Where do you think that puts you? You have in effect gone back to bury the dead. But the directive from Messiah was not back, but "Rise, let us be going!"
 

Matthias

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Yes, it is obvious that you do not see the point.

You go back to spiritual Egypt...which, no, is not serving God.

Following the Messiah isn’t going back to spiritual Egypt. I’m serving the God of Jewish monotheism in my day, just as faithful Jewish monotheists served him in theirs. He is the only God I acknowledge.

Messiah gave the timeline by which to serve, saying "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected." Where do you think that puts you? You have in effect gone back to bury the dead. But the directive from Messiah was not back, but "Rise, let us be going!"

Let the dead bury the dead. I’m a disciple of the Messiah.
 

Mindcruiser

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Not to answer for bdavidc, but you ask too much and claim too much, because you do not understand. You are approaching the issue with the logic of men. God is more, but you have set your own perceived limit, which is not true, nor good for you to do.

Our first and natural perspective is to do exactly that, to assume our own limits also pertain to God. They do not. Yes, we are made in His image--but it is a poor and dim image at best. We therefore translate heavenly, godly things to worldly things, things of men and this world, in our own favor--poorly, and in error.

But God.

But man--the measure that you have based your understanding on by word and by acts witnessed even by Christ--can a man manifest himself in a poor image and go out and do what he wills, and have it be him and not a mere image? No. But God--but God can, and He has. Can a mere man send out his intentions by mere thought, and have the things he wills to do, be so? God can.

Again--you ask too much...and by that measure...
So you think that the theory of relativity as used in terms and scripture applies here in this subject as well...as a sure cover and justification for non-responsiveness? I think not.

I think, you assume too much and your understanding of scripture is too short and very limited in scope.

And why do you call the Son of God a mere man, to entertain me with yet another newly birthed strawman that supports another of your fanciful and even wild ideas that is not set in reality, only im human theory?

Thanks but no thanks, I'm not buying what you are selling.
 

Matthias

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“Perspective governs our response to everything we read, but most crucially, with the Bible.”

(Harold Bloom, Jesus and Yahweh: The Names Divine, p. 173)

My perspective in reading the Bible is the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism.
 
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ScottA

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Following the Messiah isn’t going back to spiritual Egypt. I’m serving the God of Jewish monotheism in my day, just as faithful Jewish monotheists served him in theirs. He is the only God I acknowledge.



Let the dead bury the dead. I’m a disciple of the Messiah.
If you do not follow into the cloud and kingdom, but remain as if in those early days, you remain in a time who's service is finished, except for the dying.

If you were serving now, you would be pressing on with expectation, speaking the words of the promises that were to come.
 

ScottA

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So you think that the theory of relativity as used in terms and scripture applies here in this subject as well...as a sure cover and justification for non-responsiveness? I think not.

I think, you assume too much and your understanding of scripture is too short and very limited in scope.

And why do you call the Son of God a mere man, to entertain me with yet another newly birthed strawman that supports another of your fanciful and even wild ideas that is not set in reality, only im human theory?

Thanks but no thanks, I'm not buying what you are selling.
Oh how you sound like Nicodemus! Actually, worse by far.
 
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AngelicArcher

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The Christian apologetic should be reaffirming and defending his beliefs and faith to others by arguing for a doctrine(s) with a Father centric message(s) of hope and salvation rather than wrapped neatly in a Christocentric message(s). If not understood and believed that scripture reaffirms a Father-to-Son relationship first, then even the most simple and common Christocentric message eventually unravels and becomes chaotic and confused. This is my premise and personal belief.

As one source puts it...Albert Emanuel 2017...

"The Bible is Father-Centric, not Christocentric. The entire bible revolves around the central role of God the
Father in the plan of salvation. God the Father is the God of Israel, the God of Jesus, and the God of
Christians. It was God the Father who sent His Son, sacrificed His Son, and resurrected His Son. The Bible is primarily about God the Father and secondarily about Christ the Son. The biblical emphasis is upon God the Father. Jesus constantly and continuously emphasized God the Father. The Lord's prayer is entirely about God the Father. The kingdom and the power and the glory belong to God the Father. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of God the Father, not the kingdom of Christ. The time has come for the theological restoration of God the Father to His rightful place as the one ultimate and absolute God of Gods....."
" In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.....and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Christ and the Father are one.
 

Mindcruiser

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“Perspective governs our response to everything we read, but most crucially, with the Bible.”

(Harold Bloom, Jesus and Yahweh: The Names Divine, p. 173)

My perspective in reading the Bible is the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism.
As from the words of Jesus that also was concerned with the right perspective to have from scripture and more.

(Php 4:9) The things which you both learned and received and heard and saw in me, these things do; and the God of peace shall be with you.

By implication, our Father God is the source of the words in scripture, and whatever is holy and righteous, and we should always remember and know this in our lives, everyday. And not just his Son, who loves us also to obey our common Father.

The God of peace, Jesus' same God, provides the peace in mind and heart as we proceed on with our lives..Amen
 
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Matthias

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If you do not follow into the cloud and kingdom, but remain as if in those early days, you remain in a time who's service is finished, except for the dying.

If you were serving now, you would be pressing on with expectation, speaking the words of the promises that were to come.

The service of the 1st century church isn’t finished. It has, teaches, and preaches all of the promises which have been given. I’m in his service. I invite you, as I invite all, to it.
 

Matthias

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“From beginning to end, the Bible tells the story of God’s redemptive plan.” - C.H. Spurgeon

God-centered.

The Father reconciling the world to himself.
 
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talons

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The Christian apologetic should be reaffirming and defending his beliefs and faith to others by arguing for a doctrine(s) with a Father centric message(s) of hope and salvation rather than wrapped neatly in a Christocentric message(s). If not understood and believed that scripture reaffirms a Father-to-Son relationship first, then even the most simple and common Christocentric message eventually unravels and becomes chaotic and confused. This is my premise and personal belief.
Where do you place the Holy Spirit in your personal belief ?
As one source puts it...Albert Emanuel 2017...
I found your source I think , but it said 2007 .

 
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