Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?

[Ritajanice]

who can't understand what you are doing here, are the very people you harm.

See what I mean....you’re “ telling “ me, that I don’t understand.....how on earth would you know what I understand.

I Love a lot of what you post...some of it ,I just don’t agree with.....it can’t be you way or the the highway, Brother....it must be God’s teaching.....

You get nasty if some don’t agree with your teaching, then start throwing accusations around....I’ve been there and done exactly the same.....it’s not of God, Brother...it’s Of the “ self”....anyway God Bless...I hope that you are well.

 

[Soyeong]

Bait and switch then?

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No, it is not bait and switch if I give someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour as free gift and it requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but rather that is intrinsically part of what the gift is. Likewise, it is not bait and switch for the gift of being saved from living in transgression of God’s law to involve being graciously taught to live in obedience to it, but rather that is intrinsically part of what the gift is.

 

[Behold]

Are you telling me that we are free to do as we please, after our spirit is Born Again?

Everyone does as they please, all day long, all your life
That's Christians and non.

So, the idea is........if we are born again, we are to "present our body (lives) as a living sacrifice to God, as our reasonable service".

But not to try to stay saved.

So, if your question is......"can anything we do, or refuse to do... cause us to lose our salvation".....then the answer is No.

 

[Behold]

See what I mean....you’re “ telling “ me, that I don’t understand.....

Correct.
See, when you post an agreement with someone who is accusing God of Creating a Salvation, that "really isn't free" *(The Thread you are on).... then you've proven you are confused, regarding what this member's GOAL is on this forum.

Listen, he spits on the bible, and he accuses God, in many Threads.
That's his game plan.
He also teaches that everyone is already saved.., and even you know that is a lie of the Devil.

 

[Ritajanice]

Correct.
See, when you post an agreement with someone who is accusing God of Creating a Salvation, that "really isn't free" *(The Thread you are on).... then you've proven you are confused, regarding what this member's GOAL is on this forum.

Listen, he spits on the bible, and he accuses God, in many Threads.
That's his game plan.
He also teaches that everyone is already saved.., and even you know that is a lie of the Devil.

I’m going to leave it there, Behold....God Bless.

 

[Behold]

You get nasty if some don’t agree with your teaching,

Actually, if someone is lying, and if someone is posting Threads to try to accuse God...... then to point this out isn't "nasty".
Its being "Christian".

Do understand that when God/Christ and the NT told us to love our neighbor, they were not talking about people who come to forums to try to deceive others with Calvinism, or Threads that mock the bible, and accuse God falsely.

 

[Behold]

I’m going to leave it there, Behold....God Bless.

One day when you have time, ask @St. SteVen , why he teaches that everyone is born again, already a Christian, according to his Universalism theology.

 

[Ritajanice]

Everyone does as they please, all day long, all your life
That's Christians and non.

So, the idea is........if we are born again, we are to "present our body (lives) as a living sacrifice to God, as our reasonable service".

But not to try to stay saved.

So, if your question is......"can anything we do, or refuse to do... cause us to lose our salvation".....then the answer is No.

Thanks for voicing another opinion of what “ you” believe.....again i am going to leave it there, as I know only to well, you aren’t open to discuss.......you “ tell”......you aren’t listening imo.....all the best.

 

[Behold]

Thanks for voicing another opinion of what “ you” believe...

I just teach Paul's theology.
He believed it, and you should find out what that is, asap.

"Paul's Doctrine".

And its not your Calvinism.
And its not @St. SteVen , and His "universalism" and God knows its not what Episkopos rants.

 

[Ritajanice]

Actually, if someone is lying, and if someone is posting Threads to try to accuse God...... then to point this out isn't "nasty".
Its being "Christian".

Do understand that when God/Christ and the NT told us to love our neighbor, they were not talking about people who come to forums to try to deceive others with Calvinism, or Threads that mock the bible, and accuse God falsely.

Praise God, that I no longer have to prove anything to you, Behold.

I can’t believe how I would waste my time ,arguing for hours with you and getting nowhere.....fruitless and unedifying...insult after insult......Praise God that he brought me to my senses....growing and maturing in the righteousness of Christ.

Therefore there is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus .

Good day Behold and God Bless......I don’t react anymore...plus I can’t stand getting involved in mud slinging and unedifying posts........the “ self” is so downright boring and unfruitful...been there done all that for years...Praise God, I’ve moved on to a new wonderful fruitful/ edifying chapter in my life....out with the old destructive/ negativity.....in with Gods positivity, edifying and fruitful ways.....trying to build each other up and not keep dragging others down to our level....I’m on a higher level now ..thanks to God...

 

[Behold]

Praise God, that I no longer have to prove anything to you, Behold.

I'll never ask you to prove anything.
What i do, is i watch what you write, and how you think and who you follow, and that reveals what you believe, and also who has misled you.

So, when you have time, ask@St. SteVen why he teaches that everyone is already saved, even if they. have never trusted in Christ.

Im certain you dont believe this yourself so, that is a false gospel, and a doctrine of devils.... that misleads people into hell.

See, you would tell a non Christian, that they need Jesus, they need to trust in Christ.
He tells them, they dont have to worry about that......= "UNIVERALISM"

 

[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen is on his own journey with the Lord....I’m not called to judge him condemn him or call him out.

That is the Spirits job...same for me...if I’m wrong etc,etc, only God can call me out on it and he never does it by condemning me or throwing out insults to me.

Thank you Lord, that you are making me more and more “ self aware” of what comes out of my mouth...in Jesus Name...Amen.....your will not my will be done, Father God.

Being conformed into Jesus image and learning to be his representative....an Honour and Privilege..

 

[Behold]

@St. SteVen is on his own journey with the Lord....I’m not called to judge him condemn him or call him out.

He is on his own journey........i'll agree with you there.

So, as i told you... when you find people on forums, who are leading people to hell, with "universalism"... or similar, .. then your duty is not to try to protect them, or dodge that you are doing this........ again.
See, you've implied that you understand his purpose on the forum, so if that true, then you are called to be a Light, against such teaching.

Real Christians, expose what isn't..........as well as promote what is.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, it is not bait and switch if I give someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour as free gift and it requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but rather that is intrinsically part of what the gift is. Likewise, it is not bait and switch for the gift of being saved from living in transgression of God’s law to involve being graciously taught to live in obedience to it, but rather that is intrinsically part of what the gift is.

I'm sorry, you are WAY off topic.
I don't think I have yet to hear you respond to the OP.

We are talking about how the church pulls people into the church
on false pretense, not driving a Ferrari for "free".

If the first drive is for free, how much does it cost after that?

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[St. SteVen]

See, you would tell a non Christian, that they need Jesus, they need to trust in Christ.
He tells them, they dont have to worry about that......

I have never said any such thing.

So, as i told you... when you find people on forums, who are leading people to hell, with "universalism"...

Universalism does NOT lead people to hell.

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[St. SteVen]

Real Christians, expose what isn't..........as well as promote what is.

Universalism is one of three valid biblical views of the final judgement.
The belief was from the early church in the east.

Two of my forum topics on the subject.

Apokatastasis in the Bible​

Apokatastasis in the early church​

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[St. SteVen]

So, when you have time, ask@St. SteVen why he teaches that everyone is already saved, even if they. have never trusted in Christ.

Do you really believe that the only benefit of salvation is in the afterlife?

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[Soyeong]

I'm sorry, you are WAY off topic.
I don't think I have yet to hear you respond to the OP.

We are talking about how the church pulls people into the church
on false pretense, not driving a Ferrari for "free".

If the first drive is for free, how much does it cost after that?

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It's not clear to me why you think that I am off topic because I was directly addressing the topic by explaining why it is not bait and switch to say that salvation is a free gift by giving an example of how a free gift can intrinsically require us to do works.

 

[Brakelite]

Agree.

Question: Were you put off by all the requirements the church wanted to put on you when you first believed?

- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

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I would be horrified if anyone was pressured to/required to carry out all those things as soon as they first believed. Frankly, I find it hard to believe.

 

[St. SteVen]

I would be horrified if anyone was pressured to/required to carry out all those things as soon as they first believed. Frankly, I find it hard to believe.

The church calls it being discipled.
They expect a believer to be mature in two years.

That was the goal of the Navigators 2:7 program.

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