What are Beasts in Prophecy

[quietthinker]

What are Beasts in Prophecy?

Beasts are political systems.
We use the term 'he was a beast' and by it we mean oppressive, exploitive, violent, slippery, untrustworthy, without sensibility, etc.

Political systems which have risen through history pretty much follow these patterns. We are familiar with Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, the religious rulers through the Middle Ages and more recent Nazi Germany, etc.

The metaphor of 'Beast' surfaces again in Revelation 13. In fact there are two of them, the second mirroring the first.
The second Beast it seems, has global appeal. It comes in looking like a lamb (harmless, friendly, endearing) but in time speaks (behaves) as a Dragon (oppressive, exploitive, violent, etc) It either ingratiates itself or forces compliance at a fundamental level.

Fast Forward some......

BUYING and SELLING
We all do it in some form whether it's goods and services, ideas and opinions, ideologies or preferences.
It is what we understand as interaction.

Interaction in oppressive societies is controlled. A certain narrative becomes mandatory if one wants to 'interact' with relative ease.
Oppression by its nature is an ever tightening noose. It desires absolute control....and that over every aspect of an individuals reality.
It's principles are none other than an outworking of the values of the Great Dragon or Serpent identified in Revelation 12:9 as Satan himself.

Revelation 13:11-18 speaks of a Beast emerging in the latter times, a Beast looking like a lamb but speaking like a Dragon....even empowered by the Dragon. One that demands absolute control over all people.....even that of not being able to Buy and Sell unless one has an approved narrative.

Could this Second Beast be a geography and a political system which started benign, where the folk intent on the message of liberation (the Gospel) fled to under the persecution of the First Beast?
Is this political system and its message morphing or has it morphed where it mirrors the oppressions set up by the First Beast? ....and is there a narrative building which must be 'approved' of if one wants no harassment?

 

[Jay Ross]

Sorry QT, the actual beasts in the scriptures are wicked rebellious heavenly hosts who are cohorts of Satan and rebelled with him against God.

The Little Horn is also a beast, and we are experiencing his dominion at the moment and in around 20 years' time he will be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years where his influence will have no impact on humanity during the 1,000 years of his imprisonment until after the incarceration where he will be free to exercise his influences once more over the sea of humanity.

What we actually see of the beasts' influences are the different people groups within the sea of humanity, are exhibiting the described dominate characteristic of the beast which they have chosen to live within its dominion.

This means that the people groups within the sea of humanity can ebb and flow through the respective dominions of any of the beasts.

For example, the third beast has four heads and over the recorded history we can see three or four "beasts" at any one time exercising the third beast's characteristic of dominion in that they tend to engage in warfare against each other.

If our understanding of the entity of the beasts is faulty, then we are not able to actually see the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms who are the real beasts of the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Sorry QT, the actual beasts in the scriptures are wicked rebellious heavenly hosts who are cohorts of Satan and rebelled with him against God.

The Little Horn is also a beast, and we are experiencing his dominion at the moment and in around 20 years' time he will be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years where his influence will have no impact on humanity during the 1,000 years of his imprisonment until after the incarceration where he will be free to exercise his influences once more over the sea of humanity.

What we actually see of the beasts' influences are the different people groups within the sea of humanity, are exhibiting the described dominate characteristic of the beast which they have chosen to live within its dominion.

This means that the people groups within the sea of humanity can ebb and flow through the respective dominions of any of the beasts.

For example, the third beast has four heads and over the recorded history we can see three or four "beasts" at any one time exercising the third beast's characteristic of dominion in that they tend to engage in warfare against each other.

If our understanding of the entity of the beasts is faulty, then we are not able to actually see the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms who are the real beasts of the scriptures.

Shalom

Sorry JR, I do not see your interpretation as applying....apart from Satan being the mover and shaker behind the systems/ political forces of the World just as he was behind the Jewish indictment of Jesus and the Romans who crucified him.

 

[Jay Ross]

What is Paul talking about here? How do we see this one verse being played out?

Ephesians 5;12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.​

Who are being judged in Daniel 7:11-12? Where are all the groups you deem are the beasts of scripture in heaven, in this vision that Daniel saw?

Daniel 7:11-12: - 11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.​

Satan does not act alone as you are suggesting, but his fellow fallen heavenly hosts act in step with Satan just as scripture tells us that they do.

When God promised Peace to Israel, he told them that he would remove the beasts of the field, and we know that in our near future that God will judge both the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth who join with the heavenly hosts to do their bidding at the same time and He will cause them to be imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment.

@quietthinker, you can hold onto your perspective/understanding, but for me your POV does not ring true with respect to the Beasts spoken about in the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

What are Beasts in Prophecy?

Beasts are political systems.
We use the term 'he was a beast' and by it we mean oppressive, exploitive, violent, slippery, untrustworthy, without sensibility, etc.

Political systems which have risen through history pretty much follow these patterns. We are familiar with Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, the religious rulers through the Middle Ages and more recent Nazi Germany, etc.

The metaphor of 'Beast' surfaces again in Revelation 13. In fact there are two of them, the second mirroring the first.
The second Beast it seems, has global appeal. It comes in looking like a lamb (harmless, friendly, endearing) but in time speaks (behaves) as a Dragon (oppressive, exploitive, violent, etc) It either ingratiates itself or forces compliance at a fundamental level.

Fast Forward some......

BUYING and SELLING
We all do it in some form whether it's goods and services, ideas and opinions, ideologies or preferences.
It is what we understand as interaction.

Interaction in oppressive societies is controlled. A certain narrative becomes mandatory if one wants to 'interact' with relative ease.
Oppression by its nature is an ever tightening noose. It desires absolute control....and that over every aspect of an individuals reality.
It's principles are none other than an outworking of the values of the Great Dragon or Serpent identified in Revelation 12:9 as Satan himself.

Revelation 13:11-18 speaks of a Beast emerging in the latter times, a Beast looking like a lamb but speaking like a Dragon....even empowered by the Dragon. One that demands absolute control over all people.....even that of not being able to Buy and Sell unless one has an approved narrative.

Could this Second Beast be a geography and a political system which started benign, where the folk intent on the message of liberation (the Gospel) fled to under the persecution of the First Beast?
Is this political system and its message morphing or has it morphed where it mirrors the oppressions set up by the First Beast? ....and is there a narrative building which must be 'approved' of if one wants no harassment?

Unfortunately, in the "like a lamb" scenario, everyone would like to think their lamb is The Lamb.

 

[amadeus]

Ec 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ec 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?” Ecc 3:18-21

When did men stop being beasts or stop having beastly ways within themselves? As per a poll a few years ago conducted by men... 75% of Americans were listed as Christians. Are beasts followers of Christ?

How does an unclean beast [person] become a unclean saved beast? How does an saved unclean beast [person] become a clean beast?

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord so he with 7 family were also in the Ark? Where were they in the Ark?
How can an unclean beast be lifted from the very bottom to the very top?

Pr 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
Pr 9:2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.” Prov 9:1-2

Wisdom? Hmmm!

 

[quietthinker]

What is Paul talking about here? How do we see this one verse being played out?

​

Ephesians 5;12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.​

Who are being judged in Daniel 7:11-12? Where are all the groups you deem are the beasts of scripture in heaven, in this vision that Daniel saw?
​

Daniel 7:11-12: - 11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.​

Satan does not act alone as you are suggesting, but his fellow fallen heavenly hosts act in step with Satan just as scripture tells us that they do.

When God promised Peace to Israel, he told them that he would remove the beasts of the field, and we know that in our near future that God will judge both the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth who join with the heavenly hosts to do their bidding at the same time and He will cause them to be imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment.

@quietthinker, you can hold onto your perspective/understanding, but for me your POV does not ring true with respect to the Beasts spoken about in the scriptures.

Shalom

I would ask, what is the purpose of Prophecies given? Is it not so we can gain insight into the great battle between light and darkness and how it translates to Earth......so that we can track and have encouragement?
.....and is it not also true that counterfeit interpretations are hard on the heels of clarity to confuse our compass?

....and how is our compass confused?
Look at the Heathen world, they have no compass; they don't even understand the language of 'compass'. They have given themselves over to delusions yet they know it not.
Look at the world of Judaism, the compass given them rejected; their house left desolate!
Look at 'Christianity', a house divided against itself. Where and what is their compass by which everything is referenced? Has it also been all but forgotten or tucked away in the attic thick with dust? Jesus tells a story of one who buried his treasure and labels him an unfaithful servant.



How can we identify that we also are not giving ourselves over to delusions....even while believing we are exempt?

 

[Jay Ross]

I would ask, what is the purpose of Prophecies given? Is it not so we can gain insight into the great battle between light and darkness and how it translates to Earth......so that we can track and have encouragement?
.....and is it not also true that counterfeit interpretations are hard on the heels of clarity to confuse our compass?

....and how is our compass confused?
Look at the Heathen world, they have no compass; they don't even understand the language of 'compass'. They have given themselves over to delusions yet they know it not.
Look at the world of Judaism, the compass given them rejected; their house left desolate!
Look at 'Christianity', a house divided against itself. Where and what is their compass by which everything is referenced? Has it also been all but forgotten or tucked away in the attic thick with dust? Jesus tells a story of one who buried his treasure and labels him an unfaithful servant.



How can we identify that we also are not giving ourselves over to delusions....even while believing we are exempt?

The contextual accuracy of our understanding of the scriptures is demonstrated in your understanding of the Parable of the Talents and Minas as the great commission destroys the usual misunderstanding of these two parables. In both of these parables the entity that goes away for 1,000 years is Satan and it is Satan that labels the "third" servant as being wicked. The third servant in both parables keeps Satan money safe and returns it in full as prescribed within the Law. Also, the "wicked" servant tells Satan that he is not entitled to the harvest of souls, which Satan agrees with but Satan's rebuttal is that he also wants the harvest of souls.

In reality, the Great Commission of Jesus' disciples is that no mention of the disciples receiving any money to go out to make disciples of the people they meet and teach is made in the commissioning of the disciples to go out into all of the world.

Satan's purpose for giving money/loot to his servants is to enable them to be a disruption to the establishment of the Everlasting Kingdom in an attempt to stop its establishment after Satan goes away for a while into the Bottomless pit.

Your understanding of what the beasts are in prophecy is way off base.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Your understanding of what the beasts are in prophecy is way off base.

I doubt it.....but let me ask to get some sort of clarity as we talk at cross purposes, WHAT is your compass.....and how do YOU use it?

 

[Jay Ross]

I doubt it.....but let me ask to get some sort of clarity as we talk at cross purposes, WHAT is your compass.....and how do YOU use it?

My Compass is founded on my relationship with God and His Scriptures.

I find that the translations that we thump to drive our conclusions home have many contextual inconsistences where the meaning of the of the source texts has been turned on its head and misrepresents what the source texts present.

I have found many contextual errors that require corrections to glean any reliable understanding of God's prophetic words.

The reformation fathers fashioned a particular theology which was used to falsely condemn the RCC's Pope of being the Antichrist back some 500 years ago.

Sadly, this flawed theological understanding has persisted up to and including todays' theological understanding of many people who do not have the tools for them to formula a better understanding. As your fellow brother within your brethren from down south likes to say, or something similar, "all that we are doing is pissing into the breeze, and the breeze is carrying our piss back onto ourselves and causing us to become saturated with our own piss."

The reason that we are talking at cross purposes is that one of us may be very wrong and it is unreasonable that we both thing that we have the correct understanding. Something that we will never be able to resolve unless we both allow changes to flow into our particular understandings.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

My Compass is founded on my relationship with God and His Scriptures.

I find that the translations that we thump to drive our conclusions home have many contextual inconsistences where the meaning of the of the source texts has been turned on its head and misrepresents what the source texts present.

I have found many contextual errors that require corrections to glean any reliable understanding of God's prophetic words.

The reformation fathers fashioned a particular theology which was used to falsely condemn the RCC's Pope of being the Antichrist back some 500 years ago.

Sadly, this flawed theological understanding has persisted up to and including todays' theological understanding of many people who do not have the tools for them to formula a better understanding. As your fellow brother within your brethren from down south likes to say, or something similar, "all that we are doing is pissing into the breeze, and the breeze is carrying our piss back onto ourselves and causing us to become saturated with our own piss."

The reason that we are talking at cross purposes is that one of us may be very wrong and it is unreasonable that we both thing that we have the correct understanding. Something that we will never be able to resolve unless we both allow changes to flow into our particular understandings.

Shalom

Your compass is founded on your relationship with God? Do you mean your compass is subjective? Do you read your compass according to how you feel at any given time? What if another tells you their compass is their relationship with God as we so often hear here. It becomes a given that 'compasses' conflict. In other words, these become unreliable!

Translations this, translations that. I don't buy it.
The translation card pulled is nothing but a smokescreen. If God is the underlying author of scripture, then the broadness required to span culture and history and time will also be there.
There are sufficient translations in a variety of languages today. It is possible when there is doubt re the interpretation of certain texts to cross reference/ check to see how other translators have understood the text/ language they are translating from. This does not change the compass. If anything it clarifies its purpose.

Jesus is not just a passing phase or a glitch that can be missed. He is the overarching base/ core which determines HOW we understand scripture. Miss this and misinterpretation is inevitable.

Unless we recognise this and know HOW to apply this compass we do no different than the Israelites did since their deliverance from Egypt; we substitute the purposes of God with and for our logic.

 

[Jay Ross]

There are sufficient translations in a variety of languages today. It is possible when there is doubt re the interpretation of certain texts to cross reference/ check to see how other translators have understood the text/ language they are translating from. This does not change the compass. If anything it clarifies its purpose.

The question is, "How accurately were the reference translations that you used to check the accuracy of the translation you used in the first place?" It is a bit like chinses whispers, the message at the end of the line is often so jumbled that it bears no resemblance to the original message that was given to the first person to pass along the line.

It seems that you are rather bored today and are looking for a bit of excitement in your life. Sorry, but I am rather dull.

 

[grumix8]

In the book of Daniel, the "beasts" refer to a vision and four powerful creatures emerge from the sea.




Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• The Vision:
  In Daniel 7, Daniel has a vision of four "great beasts" emerging from the sea, each distinct and representing a different kingdom.
  

• The First Beast:
  Resembled a lion with eagle's wings, representing the Babylonian Empire and King Nebuchadnezzar.
  
  
• The Second Beast:
  Resembled a bear, with three ribs in its mouth, representing the Medo-Persian Empire.
  
  
• The Third Beast:
  Resembled a leopard with four wings and four heads, representing the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great.
  
  
• The Fourth Beast:
  A dreadful and terrifying beast with iron teeth and bronze claws, representing the Roman Empire, which was the longest-lasting of the four empires.
  
  
• The Significance:
  The vision of the four beasts is a prophecy about the rise and fall of earthly kingdoms and the ultimate establishment of God's eternal kingdom.
  
  
• The Fourth Beast's Details:
  The fourth beast is unique, with ten horns, and a little horn that arises among them, which is said to have eyes like a man and a mouth speaking great boasts.
  
  
• The Judgment:
  In the vision, the Ancient of Days takes his seat, and the fourth beast is destroyed and given to the fire, while a "son of man" is given everlasting kingship.
  
  
  
  I like daniel when you compare to revelations, you see the similiarities of the system of the beast in revelations.
  
  

 

[quietthinker]

The question is, "How accurately were the reference translations that you used to check the accuracy of the translation you used in the first place?" It is a bit like chinses whispers, the message at the end of the line is often so jumbled that it bears no resemblance to the original message that was given to the first person to pass along the line.

The scripture like Chinese Whispers? Well Jay, if you really think that is a valid approach, how can you be certain of anything? or do you just join the ranks of Holocaust deniers who invent their own narrative?

 

[Jay Ross]

The scripture like Chinese Whispers? Well Jay, if you really think that is a valid approach, how can you be certain of anything? or do you just join the ranks of Holocaust deniers who invent their own narrative?

You have not spent the time studying the scriptures using the interlinear to help you understand what the actual context of what was provided in the source text was and how the precious translations do not convey the same context in their words. Chinese whispers is an apt description of the outcome of the translations we use.

Your defence is to accuse me of being a Holocaust denier. Oh well, that false argument will not stand up to any realistic scrutiny.

You must be really bored to stoop to that level of rebuttal.

 

[quietthinker]

You have not spent the time studying the scriptures using the interlinear to help you understand what the actual context of what was provided in the source text was and how the precious translations do not convey the same context in their words. Chinese whispers is an apt description of the outcome of the translations we use.

Your defence is to accuse me of being a Holocaust denier. Oh well, that false argument will not stand up to any realistic scrutiny.

You must be really bored to stoop to that level of rebuttal.

yeahhh, bored or frustrated when the obviousness is masked and presented as obscure......but its hardly an accusation, rather a parallel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What are Beasts in Prophecy?

Beasts are political systems.
We use the term 'he was a beast' and by it we mean oppressive, exploitive, violent, slippery, untrustworthy, without sensibility, etc.

Political systems which have risen through history pretty much follow these patterns. We are familiar with Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, the religious rulers through the Middle Ages and more recent Nazi Germany, etc.

The metaphor of 'Beast' surfaces again in Revelation 13. In fact there are two of them, the second mirroring the first.
The second Beast it seems, has global appeal. It comes in looking like a lamb (harmless, friendly, endearing) but in time speaks (behaves) as a Dragon (oppressive, exploitive, violent, etc) It either ingratiates itself or forces compliance at a fundamental level.

Fast Forward some......

BUYING and SELLING
We all do it in some form whether it's goods and services, ideas and opinions, ideologies or preferences.
It is what we understand as interaction.

Interaction in oppressive societies is controlled. A certain narrative becomes mandatory if one wants to 'interact' with relative ease.
Oppression by its nature is an ever tightening noose. It desires absolute control....and that over every aspect of an individuals reality.
It's principles are none other than an outworking of the values of the Great Dragon or Serpent identified in Revelation 12:9 as Satan himself.

Revelation 13:11-18 speaks of a Beast emerging in the latter times, a Beast looking like a lamb but speaking like a Dragon....even empowered by the Dragon. One that demands absolute control over all people.....even that of not being able to Buy and Sell unless one has an approved narrative.

Could this Second Beast be a geography and a political system which started benign, where the folk intent on the message of liberation (the Gospel) fled to under the persecution of the First Beast?
Is this political system and its message morphing or has it morphed where it mirrors the oppressions set up by the First Beast? ....and is there a narrative building which must be 'approved' of if one wants no harassment?

You are way o verthinking this.

Beasts in the bible are:

1. Simply animals.

2. Rulers (Nebuchadnezzar was the Lion, Alexander the leoapard and the four wings were His four general who took over the Grecian Empire)

3. Actual characters or people. The three beasts in REv. 12,13 are Satan, HIs Son the antichrist, and a world religious leader

4. Beasts also represent kingdoms.

Context will help define who or what they do represent when beasts are used symbolically. Ex. The bear lifted on one sie is the Medo Persian EMpire!

 

[quietthinker]

You are way o verthinking this.

Beasts in the bible are:

1. Simply animals.

2. Rulers (Nebuchadnezzar was the Lion, Alexander the leoapard and the four wings were His four general who took over the Grecian Empire)

3. Actual characters or people. The three beasts in REv. 12,13 are Satan, HIs Son the antichrist, and a world religious leader

4. Beasts also represent kingdoms.

Context will help define who or what they do represent when beasts are used symbolically. Ex. The bear lifted on one sie is the Medo Persian EMpire!

The disciples struggled in their understanding of Jesus' purpose because their unquestioned programmed paradigm switched off their ears. Jesus called them dull. Consider how their understanding changed/ shifted in light of Jesus' resurrection.

We today are also in desperate need of smarts. The scriptures/ the Spirit are trying to show us a higher/ clearer/ more comprehensive way of seeing.
A parallel example might be a mathematician showing us how to solves problems by using a higher form of mathematics than primary school addition and subtraction. Our lack of smarts comes about by insisting our primary school mathematics are superior.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The disciples struggled in their understanding of Jesus' purpose because their unquestioned programmed paradigm switched off their ears. Jesus called them dull. Consider how their understanding changed/ shifted in light of Jesus' resurrection.

We today are also in desperate need of smarts. The scriptures/ the Spirit are trying to show us a higher/ clearer/ more comprehensive way of seeing.
A parallel example might be a mathematician showing us how to solves problems by using a higher form of mathematics than primary school addition and subtraction. Our lack of smarts comes about by insisting our primary school mathematics are superior.

So you are accussing many precious and devoted saints and the tens of millions who accept their comprehensive way of thinking of being dull and benighted while you have unlocked the secret?Please, pray tell, enlighten all here why the simple explanation I gave is so unenlightened and dull.

 

[quietthinker]

So you are accussing many precious and devoted saints and the tens of millions who accept their comprehensive way of thinking of being dull and benighted while you have unlocked the secret?Please, pray tell, enlighten all here why the simple explanation I gave is so unenlightened and dull.

Misrepresentation, defensiveness and condescension is never the path to enlightenment even when, nay, particularly when the truth of a matter is laid out.