Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[NotTheRock]

Most people argue about where that darn comma in the verse is supposed to be! Let's forget about the comma.

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings NotTheRock,

Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

I prefer the future paradise perspective, and it is a complete and fitting answer to the thief's request:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Webers_Home]

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Were paradise and Jesus' kingdom speaking of the same place, you'd
have a pretty good argument.
_

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Weber_Home,

Were paradise and Jesus' kingdom speaking of the same place, you'd have a pretty good argument.

Yes, Paradise is the Garden of Eden restored when Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdom.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Both Jesus and the thief were dead and unconscious on the day of their crucifixion and Jesus was placed in a tomb for three days before his resurrection. The thief will be resurrected and given eternal life at the return of Jesus, when he comes to establish his Kingdom. Man is mortal and returns to the dust. No immortal souls.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Webers_Home]

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise
of God.

Were Jesus' kingdom and the paradise of God speaking of the same place,
you'd have a pretty good argument for your interpretation of Luke 23:43.
_

 

[Brakelite]

Were Jesus' kingdom and the paradise of God speaking of the same place,
you'd have a pretty good argument for your interpretation of Luke 23:43.
_

If Jesus went anywhere at all while dead according to the scriptures, the other sides argument may be tenable. On the third day, He said to Mary, I am not yet ascended to My Father. Paradise is in heaven where the Father's throne is.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. ”
Revelation 2:7 KJV

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“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ”
Revelation 22:14 KJV

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“1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. ”
Revelation 22:1-2 KJV

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Paradise, the tree of life, heaven, the throne of God, all in the same place.

 

[DJT_47]

Greetings Weber_Home,

Yes, Paradise is the Garden of Eden restored when Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdom.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Both Jesus and the thief were dead and unconscious on the day of their crucifixion and Jesus was placed in a tomb for three days before his resurrection. The thief will be resurrected and given eternal life at the return of Jesus, when he comes to establish his Kingdom. Man is mortal and returns to the dust. No immortal souls.

Kind regards
Trevor

Just fyi, paradise is the 3rd heaven not the garden of Eden. Read 2 Cor 12


2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Most people argue about where that darn comma in the verse is supposed to be! Let's forget about the comma.

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Paradise was a holding place for Jewish Saints of God. Jesus went there to preach to those dead who never heard of Jesus remember? So, Jesus was on this earth for three days until he was raised, he never left to go to Heaven until after the three days, he went to offer he Sacrifice, hence he told Mary touch me not (she would have DEFILED the Sacrifice unto God) but then 8 days later Jesus told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds. So, THIS DAY mean Jesus being in the Paradise place of souls. Not in Heaven.

 

[Webers_Home]

Just fyi, paradise is the 3rd heaven not the garden of Eden. Read 2 Cor 12

Have you considered the possibility that the paradise spoken of in Luke 23:43
is the afterlife zone that at one time provided accommodations for Lazarus and
Abraham in the story told at Luke 16:19-31?
_

 

[Berean]

Most people argue about where that darn comma in the verse is supposed to be! Let's forget about the comma.

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Did Jesus go to paradise that day?

 

[quietthinker]

Most people argue about where that darn comma in the verse is supposed to be! Let's forget about the comma.

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Today when you read this, (which might mean next week) you are probably not using Hebrew idioms in your communications, nevertheless I tell you Today just so you understand that the idioms you do use are not in fashion in other cultures, sooooo I hope that when you tell someone from another culture it was raining cats and dogs at one point in your reality, they don't argue the case that you meant puppies and pussies were falling out of the sky.
.....and what to do when someone say's 'bullshit' and they thought it meant bovine excrement?

 

[Brakelite]

Paradise was a holding place for Jewish Saints of God. Jesus went there to preach to those dead who never heard of Jesus remember? So, Jesus was on this earth for three days until he was raised, he never left to go to Heaven until after the three days, he went to offer he Sacrifice, hence he told Mary touch me not (she would have DEFILED the Sacrifice unto God) but then 8 days later Jesus told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds. So, THIS DAY mean Jesus being in the Paradise place of souls. Not in Heaven.

All made up. Some truth, some nonsense.

 

[NotTheRock]

Today when you read this, (which might mean next week) you are probably not using Hebrew idioms in your communications, nevertheless I tell you Today just so you understand that the idioms you do use are not in fashion in other cultures, sooooo I hope that when you tell someone from another culture it was raining cats and dogs at one point in your reality, they don't argue the case that you meant puppies and pussies were falling out of the sky.
.....and what to do when someone say's 'bullshit' and they thought it meant bovine excrement?

Fair points!

 

[NotTheRock]

Did Jesus go to paradise that day?

We're told he went into Hell. I don't see why he wouldn't have gone into Heaven, at least in his spiritual body. Besides, Jesus said that believers never die. I don't think that statement came with an asterisk along with a disclaimer that believers would actually be in some sort of suspended animation.

 

[NotTheRock]

Paradise was a holding place for Jewish Saints of God. Jesus went there to preach to those dead who never heard of Jesus remember? So, Jesus was on this earth for three days until he was raised, he never left to go to Heaven until after the three days, he went to offer he Sacrifice, hence he told Mary touch me not (she would have DEFILED the Sacrifice unto God) but then 8 days later Jesus told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds. So, THIS DAY mean Jesus being in the Paradise place of souls. Not in Heaven.

Can you share any supporting verses?

 

[DJT_47]

Have you considered the possibility that the paradise spoken of in Luke 23:43
is the afterlife zone that at one time provided accommodations for Lazarus and
Abraham in the story told at Luke 16:19-31?
_

I'm simply going by the scriptures and what THEY clearly say. We can speculate, superimpose words and meanings for them, but it's hard to refute words that don't require any guesswork such as the cited scripture. There's only one place that the word paradise is defined and that is in 2 Cor 12, and it's defined as the 3rd heaven, not some place in the earth, not Abraham's bosom, but the 3rd heaven which is somewhere above, beyond the immediate heavens that we are aware of, i.e.; atmosphere, sky, etc.

 

[Hobie]

Most people argue about where that darn comma in the verse is supposed to be! Let's forget about the comma.

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Look closely at the resurrection of Christ after He lay in tomb, we see that Christ did not go to heaven when He died and went to the tomb, but not until after the resurrection.

John 20:16-17
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So we can see that Jesus did not go to Paradise after His death that day either, as He was buried and remained in the tomb until His resurrection. The day of His resurrection He appeared to Mary, stating that He had “not yet ascended to My Father” but that now He was ascending to "My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God”. So what is in the text with the thief on the cross has punctuation that was not given in the original.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The obvious implication is that He could not have promised the thief that He would be with him in Paradise on Friday. and Jesus and the thief did not die at the same time as Jesus died Friday and the thief was still alive, and his legs were broken to keep him from escaping as it usually took several days for those who were crucified to die.

And we see Jesus taken up into Heaven..
Acts 1:6-10
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, 'Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?'
7 He said to them: 'It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.'
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 'Men of Galilee,' they said, 'why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.'

Jesus ascended literally, bodily, in full view of His disciples and followers. As they watched Him go up, two angels appeared and said He would come back "in like manner" as He went up.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The Greek word translated paradise basically speaks of parks and/or park
systems.

For example New York City's mega recreational area is called Central Park;
but that isn't New York's only recreational area. There are lots of smaller
parks throughout the city that although they have their own individual
names-- e.g. The Highline, Bryant, World Trade Center, Washington Square,
etc --they're all incorporated in the New York City park system.

The thing is: I'm personally confident that there is nothing especially bad
about regarding all Heavenly areas as paradise regardless of their individual
names and/or locations, e.g. the area that at one time in the past provided
accommodations for Lararus and Abraham, the third Heaven, and the
paradise of God. In other words: I rather suspect that the world of paradise
is a whole lots more extensive than we've thus far been told.
_

 

[Hobie]

I don't think New York is what they had in mind..

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Weber_Home,

The Greek word translated paradise basically speaks of parks and/or park
systems.

The Land of Israel will be altered and blessed to become like the Garden of Eden when Jesus returns to establish His kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years, when he sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem over a significant remnant of the converted nation of Israel and the nations subjected and learning God's ways Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8.

Ezekiel 36:22-36 (KJV): 22Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

33Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

Kind regards
Trevor