The Second Death Destroys Man's False Amill Theory
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Yeah, perish the thought; I would never do such a thing. Oh, wait... yeah, okay, you surely don't have to do you if you don't want to.
I don't...
Not about anybody else but you and what you said.
He said that to Noah, yes, but... <smile> "...the Lord said in his heart, 'I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done'" (Genesis 8:21).
Right, but... see above.
It's good that you can laugh at yourself.
Grace and peace to you, SI.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The context of Genesis 8:21 is seen in Genesis 9:11-14. You lack the discernment to understand that. Ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).
No, I'm laughing at you. Just to be clear.
Ohhhh... Yes I can...
<chuckles>
Grace and peace to you.
Nope. On a personal level, God promised Noah that he would never again cut off all flesh with the waters of the flood, never again would there be a flood to destroy the earth. But in His heart, even previous to that, He resolved to Himself to never again curse the ground because of man or ever again strike down every living creature. The former is the more personal vow to Noah, and he latter ~ which, as I said, was before the former in the sequence of Scripture (Genesis 8 before Genesis 9), is the larger vow he made... to Himself... never to strike down every living creature. So, you're wrong, SI. I don't normally really say, "You're wrong," but in this case, yeah, you're wrong.
That's all you, apparently. Unless you're just in some kind of state of denial, I guess.
DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!
Well okay, but that makes this whole thing even funnier.
Grace and peace to you, SI.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Yep. I'm using scripture to back up my view. To not use Genesis 9:11-14 to help understand the meaning of Genesis 8:21 is clearly a case of not understanding how to interpret scripture with scripture. Instead of using scripture to back up your view, you're using your desire to make scripture say what you want it to say.
Uh huh. And He did NOT promise that He would never again destroy the earth in any way, shape or form.
Nope. The context of that is given later when it shows He promised to never destroy the earth with a flood again. But, go ahead and think those verses aren't related if you want. That's what people do when they just believe what they want to believe.
No, you're wrong. See, I can do that, too. But, seriously. You're very wrong.
I just used that same gif in my previous post. We found that at the same time. That's pretty funny in itself.DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!
I'm glad you find it funny that I was laughing at you. I'll continue to do so then. For your benefit, of course. Laughing is good.
So, IOW, as bad as the flood was, God is going to do something even more profound. He has found a loophole since He can't be accused of drowning all flesh if He burns all flesh to a crisp instead. This time around He's going to literally burn the surface of the planet and everyone and everything alive at the time, including the entire animal kingdom. At least the first time around He found a way to preserve the animal kingdom. Now all of a sudden He couldn't care less to preserve the animal kingdom, the same animal kingdom He bothered creating in the begining and said was good.
In this case you are the one making Scripture say what you want it to say. And I suspect one reason why is so that you can deny that the sheep and goats judgment takes place on this planet when Christ returns. But how can it, right? Can't have that judgment taking place on this planet if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Of course this verse isn't meaning Christ is returning to the earth here. It's meaning He's coming to the moon in glory, and all the holy angels with him, or maybe to mars or pluto, anywhere but the earth. Right? Picture that of all things. Coming in glory to somewhere other than the earth.
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Not hardly, yet, when Jesus returns. There will be earth changes when He comes, but it will NOT be God's Eternity of a new heavens and a new earth, not yet. How do we know? Simply because the wicked and unsaved will STILL EXIST after Christ's future return and reign over those unsaved nations with His "rod of iron". And Jesus promised His elect will reign with Him over the nations with that "rod of iron" per Rev.2:27.
Just those Biblical facts of the unsaved nations still existing AFTER Christ's future return, is enough to disprove man's false theory Amillennialism, because those Scriptures point directly to Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 being A LITERAL REIGN ON EARTH over those unsaved nations.
Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV
Or maybe you actually believe the STUPIDITY of Christ's future reign with His "rod of iron" is for His saved of the "first resurrection"?? If no wicked exists right after Christ's future return, like man's false Amill doctrine proposes, then that leaves ONLY Christ's Church there with Jesus, and means you are saying His "rod of iron" is upon His elect Church! but Jesus instead said His elect Church will 'reign' WITH HIM! So your false Amill doctrine directly contradicts Bible Scripture.
And by saying God's Eternity of a new heavens and a new earth occurs on the day of Christ's future return, that is... saying the wicked no longer exist, because the destruction of Satan, hell, the wicked, and even the concept of death, MUST ALL BE DESTROYED prior to manifesting of God's Eternity NHNE.
To support for your claims, you present Zech 14, a text that makes to mention of the second coming or a future millennium. You have to force your theology into the text to support your error. This is classic Premil!
If you would move into the New Testament, you would see that all mankind is resurrected and then judged at the coming of Jesus Christ. The second coming is the end. It is the last day. It's is the elimination of the bondage of corruption. It ushers in eternity. It ushers in the new heavens and the new earth.
Scripture shows: when man fell, all creation experienced the awful consequences of that tragedy and fell with him. The curse upon man caused the curse to fall upon this earth. The Fall of man caused the Fall of creation.
Genesis 3:17 confirms this, saying, “Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake.”
When is the curse lifted? When does corruption come to an end?
The curse upon both is equally lifted simultaneously when Jesus returns. This is the concluding event in history.
Romans 8:17-23 declares, “if indeed we suffer with Him … we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (that is the glorification of God elect). For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body (that is the glorification of God elect).”
Scripture makes it abundantly clear there will be a conclusion to the current fallen state. There will be a day of complete deliverance. Both the creature and creation are simultaneously waiting for “the adoption, the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will be finally delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:50-52 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthora or decay] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or unending existence]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
Every vestige of the Fall is removed when Christ comes – never to arise again. A new earth will come-forth that is totally renewed and eternally free of corruption.
But not everyone is qualified to inherit the perfect state that is coming when Jesus appears. You must be perfected to inherit perfection.
Christ teaches in Luke 20:34-36: “The children of this world [Gr. aion or age] marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world [Gr. aion or age], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
It is impossible to miss the constant scriptural comparison between “this world” and “that world” or “this age” and “that age.” There is no additional age recognized. In text reinforces that repeated biblical truth. Those who live in this current evil age are described here as “the children of this world/age” but those who are depicted as being “worthy to obtain that age” to come are described exclusively as “the children of God, being the children of the resurrection” and are said to be “equal unto the angels.” There is no other way of reading this.
This couldn’t be any clearer. This teaching of Christ reinforces the fact that not everyone is qualified to inherit the perfect world to come that arrives with the return of Christ. This narrative totally prohibits mortals and the wicked from populating the new earth. After all, that age is depicted as a reward for the redeemed. It is for those who belong to God. It is for those who know Him personally.
Scripture is too literal for you. It is too simple. That is why you constantly reject it's clear teaching on end-times.
Whaaaa....t? That's a silly idea. The Zechariah 14 Chapter is VERY CLEAR that is it about Christ's future return with His saved Church, and then begins His future reign over the unsaved nations! Do you really think Christ's elect who reign with Jesus at that time, will be refusing to go up to Jerusalem from year to year and worship Jesus The KING, nor keep the feast of tabernacles?
Anyone with a little common sense can read those Zechariah 14 events and know they are for Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the UNSAVED nations per Rev.20. Even those living waters mentioned in that Zechariah 14 chapter after Christ's return is about God's River of the Waters of Life manifesting on earth again at that time. And all you can say is, "classic Premil". That just ain't right.
I well know what Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that both resurrection types happen on the same day of His future return. Is that what you are talking about? Nice try though anyway with your false attempt to publicly suggest that I don't study all The Bible.
But NO, the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord" is NOT God's Eternity of a NHNE, not yet, because death is NOT YET DESTROYED when Jesus returns. There's the matter of the "second death" for the wicked that will still exist after Christ's future return.
So undoubtedly it is YOU... that needs to study your New Testament Scripture more.
And maybe study your Old Testament Scripture more too...
Isa 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV
The earth's kings, those which will rule the "one hour" with the "beast" king of Rev.17, those will be cast into Satan's pit prison when Jesus returns, and only "after many days shall they be visited." What time do you think that underlined phrase is pointing to when those kings will be "visited"? That phrase is a reference to the "thousand years" time of Christ's future reign when those kings will be locked with Satan in his pit prison, and then after that 1,000 years they will be loosed, as Satan is loosed one final time, to go tempt the 'unsaved' nations that will come upon the "camp of the saints" ON EARTH, and then God rains fire down upon those nations.
Right, because I chose not to, because doing so would have been ridiculous.
Nope.
You used no Scripture to back up anything other than Genesis 8:21 and Genesis 9:11-14. Nor did I; that's irrelevant, as we're just discussing the two and... disagreeing regarding how the two "mesh." I say how you're doing it is... erroneous... <smile> ...and you can call that my opinion if you like; I have no problem with that.
That's not the issue. You're using Genesis 9:11-14 really to the exclusion of Genesis 8:21, which is really ~ in effect ~ to exclude God from the equation altogether... which you don't mean to do, I'm sure, but in effect, that's what you're doing. It's a different thing, for sure, but it's a lot like what... dispensationalists... <smile> ...do with some things in Romans 9 (specifically verse 16) because of their whole "fixation" on free will.
Well, yes, but.... kinda in reverse... It's...
Nope. Again, that seems to be...
Not in the manner in which you're understanding the destroying, no. He will never again strike down every living creature as he did in Noah's day. He said so, even in His heart. But many, as a result of the final Judgment, will be destroyed, and Scripture is very clear on that. And what we can absolutely say is that those two things do not present a contradiction of any kind. So then we have to reconcile the two, because... there is a reconciliation between the two that shortchanges neither one in any way.
Yep.
Nope. See above.
Oh they're related, for sure, but not in the way you suppose they are.
Okay, we disagree, right? I say you're wrong. And ~ I know you've said this before to other posters, and it's true ~ just because someone says something or someone is wrong doesn't make it or them wrong. Right? So yeah, we can apply that to each other here, and leave it at that, right?
Yeah, hilarious, huh?
Ohhhh... I think you misunderstand. <smile> Or just avoid acknowledging what I found funny; that's probably the case. <smile>
I literally do not care. <smile> Mainly because it's such an empty thing. <smile> But by all means, if it makes you feel good about yourself, then hey, keep doing it. <smile>
Grace and peace to you.
I laughed. Out loud. Really loudly. For an extended amount of time. LOL!
Grace and peace to you, David.
That would for sure be stupid, this rod of iron being applied to the saved. Escpecially after 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. Keeping in mind, Amils apparently believe that the same day Christ returns 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled that very same day. Obviously though, no matter how you look at it, there won't be any ruling anyone with a rod of iron once 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. Which then means the following if Amil is to be believed.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
And the following clearly tells us when this initially goes in affect.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
IOW, if Amil is to be believed, that means the same day Christ returns and that they begin doing this---I give power over the nations---they only receive this power for 1 day only, since Amil has no more days remaining once Christ returns. Clearly, Amils do not think some of these things through very well. We can probably blame that on doctrinal bias'. That will do it every time, cause someone to not think some of these things through very well. As if it makes sense that the same day Christ gives overcomers power over the nations He then takes that power away from them the very same day He gives it to them.
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Correct. And it only reveals that Satan's servants were in play with coming up with the un-Biblical Amillennial theory of the 2nd century. I assign the theory to the 2nd century Christian Gnostics who crept into the early Church and began mixing Greek Platonism in with Christian doctrine.
More unsupported false claims. Zero support for what you claim. All you have is your own opinions. The one thing you cannot do his address the Word of God.
In Luke 20:34-36, Jesus basically compares the temporal imperfect state of this present age/world to the glory of the age/world to come. Jesus says: “The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
This couldn’t be any clearer.
Whilst the “children of this age marry, and are given in marriage” (according to Christ in Luke 20:34-36), Jesus presents the future age as a glorified place that is earned by those alone who are “accounted worthy to obtain that age.” These people are shown to be the glorified saints alone. This could never refer to the unsaved, mortals of any kind, or the nations that come against Jerusalem as some suggest. These would all obviously eventually die. Such people are expressly barred from the age to come. This is speaking about immortal glorified believers only.
You have countless heathens populating the new earth in their corrupt mortal bodies. You have all the vice of our day prospering in their millennial age. You have all the sin and debauchery and rebellion of our day continuing in that day. Contrary to what Jesus says, You have millennial mortals continuing to “marry, and are given in marriage” – just like “the children of this age.” You render millions of unregenerate unsaved worthy to inherit the new earth. They are “accounted worthy to obtain that age.” However, the words of Christ negate such a belief.
The reigning over the nations with a rod of iron described in Revelation 2, 12 and 19 is a shepherding over the nations at the end. This is not reigning for 1,000 years as Premils intimate. In fact, one thousand years are not mentioned in the reading. The only thing awaiting the wicked after Christ’s coming is judgment then eternal punishment.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What a shocker that you would chime in on this topic.
Does context mean anything to you? I showed the context of Genesis 8:21. So, do you care about context or do you care more about just believing what you want to believe?
That is correct. Otherwise, Peter was a false prophet.
If you want to be taken seriously about this, then tell me exactly how you interpret these passages:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I'm tired of you trying to say my interpretation of something is wrong while you do nothing to show what you think the correct interpretation should be. So, please tell me how you interpret these passages since you obviously think I don't interpret them correctly.
He could again if He wanted to. Or not. It's up to Him. He obviously does not have a problem with killing many animals.
Hello? We're talking about scripture here. You're talking about your love of animals. Stick to scripture. There's no scripture which says that God wants to preserve the animal kingdom for eternity Jesus didn't die to provide eternal life for animals. He died to provide eternal life for human beings.
Are you kidding me? Show me the scripture that backs up what you're saying then. You're constantly making claims without backing them up. do you want to be taken seriously or not? Maybe you don't. But, if you do, start backing up your claims with scripture. You can't just make claims like you are without providing any supporting scripture as if I'm just going to take your word for it. You know better than that.
Of course I deny that. There is only one judgment and Revelation 20:11 shows that it will not take place on earth or in heaven.
Exactly right. Unless the planet is renewed quickly. Then it could take place there on the new earth. But, Revelation 20:11 says the earth flees from His presence and isn't found. I suppose that could just be referring to this earth as we know it and not the new (renewed) earth.
Show me where it says it takes place on the earth. You're all talk. You have no scripture to back up what you're saying. How can I take that seriously?
Why will we meet Him in the air instead of just meeting Him on the earth then? I doubt you've even thought about that because your thinking is so narrow.
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