I have difficulty believing that souls will be damned to the Lake of Fire
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
This well describes the ”ears” of many….
According to those who believe in predestination, God chose the ones who will suffer for all eternity in hellfire, before they were even born….can someone explain that scripturally to me?
What kind of loving God would create unbelievers and then punish them for their unbelief?
Who could love a God who did that, whilst smugly acknowledging that they weren’t of that ilk….because God chose them for life? “I’m special because God chose me before he created anything….”
Where does this nonsense come from?
Berean
Well-Known Member
The scriptures tell us that Jesus "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Timothy 2:6) That due time will be during His Millennial reign. Where every man, woman and child who ever lived will be resurrected, where "the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea." And as John 6:45 tells us "they shall all be taught by God."
This isn't to assume that everyone will receive life, but that everyone free from the influence of the adversary will be given the opportunity for life. The Scriptures are clear, not everyone will avail themselves of God's grace.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
The problem is they had hate in their heart as you can discern by the millions they murdered, not hard to see.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
"In my view, the 'lake of fire and sulfur' (Revelation 20:10) represents a baptism of fire—not necessarily torment, but a purification of sin. Yet I’m uncertain whether this fire consumes sinners into nothingness or refines them.
Let me share my personal experience:
For years, I struggled with fleshly weaknesses—a persistent, restless sin within me. It wasn’t about avoiding outward wrongdoing; the corruption felt innate. But when Christ’s love overwhelmed me, His fiery baptism burned away that inner darkness. I physically sensed black smoke leaving my body, followed by profound relief.
In this love, I felt zero fear or torment—only liberation. If such grace transformed me, it can transform anyone. Yet I hesitate to share this, fearing people might dismiss Scripture’s warnings as mere scare tactics. Does my experience negate the ‘fear of the Lord’ (Proverbs 9:10)?
Honestly, in His love, I no longer feel the dread I once did while reading passages about judgment. I question if this is spiritually valid—but the reality is undeniable."
Theological Reflection:
Fire as Purification
Scripture describes God as “a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) who both judges and refines. Malachi 3:2–3 likens Him to a refiner’s fire burning away dross, not annihilating the metal.
My experience echoes sanctification—the Spirit’s work to purge sin’s grip (1 Corinthians 3:13–15).
Love vs. Fear
“Perfect love drives out fear” (1 John 4:18). What you describe aligns with liberation from slavery to sin (Romans 6:6–7), not dismissal of God’s holiness.
Yet “fear of the Lord” in Scripture refers to reverent awe, not terror (Psalm 130:4). Balance is key: Grace doesn’t negate justice but fulfills it (Romans 3:25–26).
Eternal Implications
The lake of fire’s nature remains mysterious. Universalists argue for “restorative fire” (Origen’s apokatastasis), while traditionalists see eternal separation. Regardless, your testimony highlights Christ’s present power to save, not just future judgment.
Sharing with Wisdom
Emphasize both realities:
“God is love” (1 John 4:8) and “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10:31).
The story isn’t a license for presumption but proof that “His kindness leads to repentance” (Romans 2:4).
Conclusion:. Let it deepen humility, not diminish reverence. As Bonhoeffer warned, “Cheap grace is grace without discipleship.” True love compels holiness (2 Corinthians 5:14–15). Walk in that tension.
Let me share my personal experience:
For years, I struggled with fleshly weaknesses—a persistent, restless sin within me. It wasn’t about avoiding outward wrongdoing; the corruption felt innate. But when Christ’s love overwhelmed me, His fiery baptism burned away that inner darkness. I physically sensed black smoke leaving my body, followed by profound relief.
In this love, I felt zero fear or torment—only liberation. If such grace transformed me, it can transform anyone. Yet I hesitate to share this, fearing people might dismiss Scripture’s warnings as mere scare tactics. Does my experience negate the ‘fear of the Lord’ (Proverbs 9:10)?
Honestly, in His love, I no longer feel the dread I once did while reading passages about judgment. I question if this is spiritually valid—but the reality is undeniable."
Theological Reflection:
Fire as Purification
Scripture describes God as “a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) who both judges and refines. Malachi 3:2–3 likens Him to a refiner’s fire burning away dross, not annihilating the metal.
My experience echoes sanctification—the Spirit’s work to purge sin’s grip (1 Corinthians 3:13–15).
Love vs. Fear
“Perfect love drives out fear” (1 John 4:18). What you describe aligns with liberation from slavery to sin (Romans 6:6–7), not dismissal of God’s holiness.
Yet “fear of the Lord” in Scripture refers to reverent awe, not terror (Psalm 130:4). Balance is key: Grace doesn’t negate justice but fulfills it (Romans 3:25–26).
Eternal Implications
The lake of fire’s nature remains mysterious. Universalists argue for “restorative fire” (Origen’s apokatastasis), while traditionalists see eternal separation. Regardless, your testimony highlights Christ’s present power to save, not just future judgment.
Sharing with Wisdom
Emphasize both realities:
“God is love” (1 John 4:8) and “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10:31).
The story isn’t a license for presumption but proof that “His kindness leads to repentance” (Romans 2:4).
Conclusion:. Let it deepen humility, not diminish reverence. As Bonhoeffer warned, “Cheap grace is grace without discipleship.” True love compels holiness (2 Corinthians 5:14–15). Walk in that tension.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Oh they had hate all right .
That is the result of hate left uncorrected and not repented of my friend .
hate is murder and leads to murder .
The great hate which will lead this world to the acceptance
of yet another removal of people from society has began . Only most think its love and loving .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Since we have revived this thread, let us at least start with a sound foundation of accurate definitions.
When SCRIPTURE speaks of "LOVE" it is not talking about the warm and fuzzy feeling you get from looking at a little Puppy dog. Go find references to love in scripture and NOTE the actual context. "LOVE" is first an action, it is a decision to DO SOMETHING, not a "feel something". Love is an action that COSTS the giver to benefit the RECEIVER. In LIFE, "love" is a teacher shielding her students with her body against the bullets of a gunman, so she dies and they live ... that is Biblical "love".
To the OP statement, when did "Hitler, Stalin and Mao" love someone as we now correctly define "Love". What action did they take for the explicit benefit of another at their direct personal cost?
To the quote from 1 John 4:7, we have multiple living examples of "love" illustrated in scripture. Let's start with the ultimate illustration ... Christ died so that we might live as the Ultimate act of love ... it cost Him EVERYTHING and all of the benfit was for us (people who neither deserved it not appreciated it at the time). Let's look at more practical examples in scripture: When you turn the other cheek, it cost you to forgive them. When you hand a man your cloak, it cost you to love (help) them. When you carry a load two miles, it cost you to help them. Each act was an act of LOVE because it cost you to benefit them. It is like King David said ... "I will offer to God no sacrifice that costs me nothing" ... We are called to love as something that honors God because it cost us to bless another.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Agree.
Reminded me of these.
Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.
Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Hobie there is something we need to remind all about my friend .
its something even JESUS said himself .
He who loves mother , father , son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me .
What condemns a soul is THEY Failed to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
If one truly believes on HIM they have the true agape love upon their heart.
sinners can love sinners . JESUS even said so . What do ye more than them for sinners even love sinners .
This mantra of believe in love and making people beleive if they just have love
they know God . is a lie .
Because there is a love that cometh of the world but NOT OF GOD .
SO the LOVE that comes of GOD has us PUT HIM FIRST , aka CHRIST
to love HIM above all , THEN your neighbor as yourself .
Just keep that always in mind my friend .
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
All you have to do is accept Jesus as your Savior to avoid this world.
Ezekiel 18:23-24-
23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Ezekiel 18:23-24-
23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The way I understand it is that Grace has cost God his life in Jesus. That is anything but cheap, yet when I say that Grace is for all peoples, it is interpreted by and large as 'cheap' because it negates punishment.
The problem is in man's perception, not in God's generosity
Grace is what God lavishes on all. Punishment is what we do to ourselves. If we drop bombs and kill people, we live out a life which does not see, even rejects Grace. We create our own hell.
When Jesus returns in the clouds and those that pierced him we are told, are resurrected to witness this event. Where do we suppose they will be in their own perception if not hell? Jesus is not coming to give them a hard time, he is coming to rescue those eagerly waiting for him, however, and to say it again, it is their own reality that will have them hiding and running and wishing for death. There will be shaking knees, lose bowels and abject terror ....but none of that will be imposed by God.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We assume both Wrath and Grace mean certain things. We don't question our understanding of these terms....I would say, to our weak and beggarly understanding of our God.
We have muddled the two together and somehow presented God in a similar vane to the heathen deities. This has happened because we have not seen Jesus in his Glory.
So, we have three terms/ expressions; God's Wrath, God's Grace and God's Glory. All three have been misunderstood and confused in mans understanding.
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Nobody who committed genocide genuinely knew or loved God, no matter what they falsely claimed.
He said if you love me do what I say. "Thou shalt not kill" is clear on its own.
I don't care who they said they were representing. Jesus himself was killed because human beings were disobedient and the love of Christ was not in them...
Also, nobody without Christ can love like Christ. Nobody without Christ will know God's love; true, genuine, authentic love. What they may know in a worldly sense is not comparable to God's truth.
Others decided people would have to die for God. In Christianity, it's the other way around. Because of HIS love, HE died for US.
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Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Based on history, his behaviour, his writings Mein Kampf, etc it is highly doubtful.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Yes every tongue WILL confess.
That includes the ones in hell.
But it's too late.
The ones not in hell and the ones in hell. Every tongue....
Hobie
Well-Known Member
You can see the difference from those who follow God and those who follow and under bondage to the deceiver..
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That's a common misconception. A look at the Greek helps.
The definition of "confess" (acknowledge) sheds some light on this.
Openly, whole-heartedly, without reservation...
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).
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