Brakelite
Well-Known Member
My mistake. I seem to remember universalist ideas on previous posts of yours. I must be confused with someone else. Apologies.
My agnostic friend says: "I don't need it." - How would you respond?
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sheeplike
New Member
I would accept his opinion. Jesus said - there is a big way that leads into destruction and a very small way, who leads to everlasting life. So why bother? What is a small miracle for me - is for someone like this just "good luck". But I know, that everybody gets the chance to find Jesus at least for once in his life - everybody has to make this decision.
Welcome to the forum.
Your comment reminded me of something C.H. Spurgeon wrote: “Many choose to perish forever rather than trust in God.”
Everyone must choose and not everyone will choose to trust in God. Those who choose to trust in God must be mentally, emotionally and spiritually prepared in advance to accept the decision of those who choose not to. I’ve found 1 Samuel 8:7 to be helpful in that regard.
Assumptions are terrible, but who am I to judge.
If people just ask me if I’m an universalist, I just say no. Cause that’s the truth.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I have gone back and read a few of your previous posts in other threads. You have an expectation that everyone has a second chance to choose Christ. I cannot remember which sect in particular teaches this, either LDS or JWs. I think. Scripture does not teach any kind of scenario where those who died without Christ are resurrected to be given another opportunity. Your idea may not be universalism, but it is certainly related.
Does the person with a wound say "I am waiting for the right bandage"? Or do they say "give me whatever bandage works!"?
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Like my signature lines says "I was a lost and the shepherd FOUND ME." That is the only ONE CHANCE anyone has to get saved.
And I have thanked God for His "CALLING" me. A "calling" which I received after His "PREDESTINING" me to His "DRAWING".
JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
ROM 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Because I, being a GENTILE also needed to be "PREDESTINED" or "ORDAINED" to believe before being "CALLED". Just like those first GENTILES after the church was FIRST born.
ACT 13:48* And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed.
So, if he "CALLED" everyone/ALL,as most believe, then ALL were also predestined to believe be justified and glorified.
So for me, the only question is WHEN do ALL get their ONE CHANCE to fulfill His "PREDESTINING" and His "CALLING" and His "DRAWING" you. Since none of these scriptures are initiating any glory to US for being saved by JESUS.
Some....very few...get it this side of ETERNITY. For those He has not "predestined" "called" "drawn", but not forgotten their turn will come. when?
PHI 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him andir bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
10* that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11* and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It certainly won"t be me claiming I "ORDAINED" myself and I FOUND JESUS.....TO THE GLORY OF ME.
And I have thanked God for His "CALLING" me. A "calling" which I received after His "PREDESTINING" me to His "DRAWING".
JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
ROM 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Because I, being a GENTILE also needed to be "PREDESTINED" or "ORDAINED" to believe before being "CALLED". Just like those first GENTILES after the church was FIRST born.
ACT 13:48* And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed.
So, if he "CALLED" everyone/ALL,as most believe, then ALL were also predestined to believe be justified and glorified.
So for me, the only question is WHEN do ALL get their ONE CHANCE to fulfill His "PREDESTINING" and His "CALLING" and His "DRAWING" you. Since none of these scriptures are initiating any glory to US for being saved by JESUS.
Some....very few...get it this side of ETERNITY. For those He has not "predestined" "called" "drawn", but not forgotten their turn will come. when?
PHI 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him andir bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
10* that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11* and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It certainly won"t be me claiming I "ORDAINED" myself and I FOUND JESUS.....TO THE GLORY OF ME.
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sheeplike
New Member
Well, Jesus died for ALL humans - past and present and future ones, until the end. If there would be something like "predestination" in saving, all efforts are useless. Why bother - it's already decided, right? When I read this text, I can only understand that all those who had the right spiritual disposition were saved or found to Christ in this moment. They believed - and thus were saved. But do not forget, the Bible is as well full of text's to show us to take care. Later on, Paul had to remind many congregations. You remember the text when they thought "great, Jesus died for our sins - so the more we sin, the more his sacrifice is worth.."? People come to a lot of solutions if it suits them.
Think about: Matthew 7:21-24, Matthew 25 (full chapter), Luke 21:34 ff. etc, etc. You can read as well the first three chapters of Revelation were Jesus wrote the letters to the congregations... For me, the logic of all this is: Being a Christ you only come to god through Jesus: I am the way - nobody comes to the father except through me. Then, once you are Christian, take care that you continue to follow the way - every day, all your life. 1 Peter 5-8 says: Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. There are much more texts like this.
So for me, being Christ, is a constant fight or constant attention. Sorry, EN is not my mother language. But I am sure, you understand. As for me - I am happy not to understand everything. In fact, I do not even want to. Funny is - my wife is from Africa, can hardly read (and the only thing she reads is the Bible) - but I never met a better Christian. Knowledge is not it - but the heart. And she just trusts god like a small child trusts her parents. And many small miracles happened - this is very encouraging.
Think about: Matthew 7:21-24, Matthew 25 (full chapter), Luke 21:34 ff. etc, etc. You can read as well the first three chapters of Revelation were Jesus wrote the letters to the congregations... For me, the logic of all this is: Being a Christ you only come to god through Jesus: I am the way - nobody comes to the father except through me. Then, once you are Christian, take care that you continue to follow the way - every day, all your life. 1 Peter 5-8 says: Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. There are much more texts like this.
So for me, being Christ, is a constant fight or constant attention. Sorry, EN is not my mother language. But I am sure, you understand. As for me - I am happy not to understand everything. In fact, I do not even want to. Funny is - my wife is from Africa, can hardly read (and the only thing she reads is the Bible) - but I never met a better Christian. Knowledge is not it - but the heart. And she just trusts god like a small child trusts her parents. And many small miracles happened - this is very encouraging.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
JOH 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
ACT 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
PHI 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
As for the salvation of your spirit....which is the FIRST salvation of a triune human, I can only say this; You can no more RE-BORN yourself than you can 'BORN yourself.'....in the first place.
There is no "the end"...to the price Jesus paid for the sins of ALL "past and present and future ones," He paid it ALL...for ALL....FOREVER. But any sin you commit now, even if you have accepted Jesus as your savior still has a price which you will pay here and now. It is up to us to SAVE OURSELVES from this wicked generation we live in.
ACT 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
PHI 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
What do you mean "If there would be something like predestination"????? I quoted several scriptures and you addressed none of them. As for your opinions and your understanding of the four bible references you shared you just don't understand them as I do. You are applying a born again salvation of your spirit to those scriptures, and I don't. I apply a salvation of your soul to those references.
As for the salvation of your spirit....which is the FIRST salvation of a triune human, I can only say this; You can no more RE-BORN yourself than you can 'BORN yourself.'....in the first place.
You are struggling a little bit, but you're here and engaging and I believe that's good. Your wife sounds like jewel. When I first got saved we had a young married couple come to our town to do tent meetings. The night a friend and I went, we were the only two with about 20 empty chairs. We were invited over to their apartment and we learned his wife had the entire book of John memorized.....along with lots of other scripture. Made an impact on my young walk back then.
sheeplike
New Member
What I sincerely meant is, being a christian is a constant fight. Do not think, that my wife, because she is simple in what refers to god, does not have to fight. It may for all of us be different. Poverty, sickness, nothing to eat, deception, temptation... I think I unsubscribe. I have the feeling I do not belong here. I simply trust in Jesus ransom, although I do not deserve it - and nobody does. It's undeserved kindness. In this sense, ciao.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Even as discouragement encroaches we persevere, sheeplike. Do not give up because some are difficult.
There is no community that I know of where harmony is a given. There are lots of variables in any community. Here are some....
1. Most struggle with maturity......are consumed by navel gazing and blaming.
2. Being 'religious' has a greater attraction than the desire to know Jesus.
3. The understanding of many is hamstrung by faulty paradigms, nevertheless we are all a work in progress.
4. If your guiding light motivates you to love the erring, be a light for them and point them to THE light....even while they crucify you
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
And I totally agree. But we weren't talking about "BEING" a Christian at first. We were talking about first "BECOMING" a Christian. And that's where we disagreed. And this simply may not be the forum for you because of your struggle with the language. A struggle I acknowledged you have and commended you for still being here.
I never did think that, about your wife. Calling her a jewel means someone precious, sorry you didn't understand that. So once again you missed my attempt to accommodate your struggle.
You probably should unsubscribe. You are in the APOLOGETICS forum and that forum by definition means;
"reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine." I provided both 'reasoned argument' and biblical 'writings' for my position and I thought I did it 'friendly'.
There are many forums here @sheeplike and I hope you can find something where you're more comfortable. Because even the quiet thinking ones here in this forum will talk real loud against you, the instant you step on one of their doctrinal toes.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
In other words you should just move on and spend time witnessing to others. Just tell this guy you are available if he changes his mind, keep praying for the Lord to open the eyes of his understanding... but move on.
Besides, you should not have any "friends" that are unbelievers.... unbelievers are just acquaintances, not friends.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a FRIEND of publicans and sinners!
Mat 26:50 (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, FRIEND, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
Is there a difference between ‘friendship’ and "fellowship”?
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Jesus was not friendly with sinners... if He was, then He was taking part in their sin by being in agreement with them and not trying to convert them.
The time the Lord spent with those outside of His inner circle was in effort to teach them the Gospel and teach them they need to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I guess he loved the world even while being unfriendly to them.....hmmmm, sounds pretty 'religious' to me.
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