Outer Darkness

[Nancy]

Jesus speaks three times of Outer Darkness in Matthew: Matthew 8:12/Matthew 22:13/ and Matthew 25:30. These verses seem to speak a lot about the "Sons of The Kingdom" (Jews) and filthy rags of un-righteousness. In all three parables, the Israelites are the ones He is speaking to and about (IMHO). Although we know that Jew nor Gentile will be allowed into the Kingdom in filthy rags of self righteousness.

Is it possible to still be living on this earth and be thrown into the outer darkness? There are a couple people I know, including myself that can get so very down enough that it sure does seem like the outer darkness of the bible.

This has happened to myself a few times the last 3 or so years. But, when we are so down the only place to go is up. This too has proven true with myself and a dear friend.

What can this mean other than hell itself? Some will argue that it is not hell as there is darkness, and hell will be a lake of fire and fire brings light. Perhaps the darkness is within the soul/spirit and is not meant to be taken literally?

I now find myself praying deeply for a dear Christian friend who is passing "through" this darkness, or something just like it anyhow as it sure does feel like total outer darkness and that God has left us to our own devices.

Some see O.D. as the darkness outside the banquet hall in heaven, "heaven’s suburb."

Just wondering if the outer darkness can be for a time, sort of like "put that man out from you for Satan to kill the flesh and his soul will be saved" (from memory) at least while we still take in air on this earth.

Any comments? Please refrain from nastiness...tanx!

 

[ScottA]

Jesus speaks three times of Outer Darkness in Matthew: Matthew 8:12/Matthew 22:13/ and Matthew 25:30. These verses seem to speak a lot about the "Sons of The Kingdom" (Jews) and filthy rags of un-righteousness. In all three parables, the Israelites are the ones He is speaking to and about (IMHO). Although we know that Jew nor Gentile will be allowed into the Kingdom in filthy rags of self righteousness.

Is it possible to still be living on this earth and be thrown into the outer darkness? There are a couple people I know, including myself that can get so very down enough that it sure does seem like the outer darkness of the bible.

This has happened to myself a few times the last 3 or so years. But, when we are so down the only place to go is up. This too has proven true with myself and a dear friend.

What can this mean other than hell itself? Some will argue that it is not hell as there is darkness, and hell will be a lake of fire and fire brings light. Perhaps the darkness is within the soul/spirit and is not meant to be taken literally?

I now find myself praying deeply for a dear Christian friend who is passing "through" this darkness, or something just like it anyhow as it sure does feel like total outer darkness and that God has left us to our own devices.

Some see O.D. as the darkness outside the banquet hall in heaven, "heaven’s suburb."

Just wondering if the outer darkness can be for a time, sort of like "put that man out from you for Satan to kill the flesh and his soul will be saved" (from memory) at least while we still take in air on this earth.

Any comments? Please refrain from nastiness...tanx!

What you and your friend have experienced is the deepest form of "the valley of the shadow of death" referred to even by David. But "fear no evil" is the message, for these days have been shortened.

"Outer darkness" does rather refer to hell, as being banished from the Light of God. In which case, regardless of the flames of fire, all evil and hell are indeed properly defined as "darkness." The term was made manifest by God by what we would commonly refer to as "outer space", displayed in the darkness of the far reaches of the starry hose or worldly heavens...as if lost in space. None of which refers to the darkness we can feel being under the darkness and weight of this fallen world. "Fear no evil!"

 

[Lambano]

Is it possible to still be living on this earth and be thrown into the outer darkness? There are a couple people I know, including myself that can get so very down enough that it sure does seem like the outer darkness of the bible.

That's inner darkness. While depression is its own kind of hell, I would be loathe to say those who suffer from it are being punished for some particular sin. Often there are biochemical or psychological causes (for example, physical or sexual abuse, or someone who's been told since childhood that they're bad or worthless) underlying depression that are not the fault of the person.

 

[Lambano]

What can this mean other than hell itself? Some will argue that it is not hell as there is darkness, and hell will be a lake of fire and fire brings light. Perhaps the darkness is within the soul/spirit and is not meant to be taken literally?

The master of parables might use poetic imagery? Imagine that.

I agree that it's imagery, not to be taken literally. However, I don't see anything good in this image. "Fire" has its own imagery. What do the words "outer" and "darkness" conjure up for you?

Judea is on the edge of the Negev desert. What's outside the city walls, outside the Kingdom? Outside the gates it's cold, it's lonely, you're an outsider, there's no food, no water, no light, no hope, no life - and there's snakes. I see the Second Death.

 

[PGS11]

Its in reference to the spiritual world that exists the outer darkness is hell if you are in the light your with God.The spiritual world exist the bible tells us there are a uncountable amount of Angels in spiritual world my proof millions upon millions of Angels show up to celebrate the feast of the lamb go read for yourself.You have to believe in that spiritual existence if you believe in God.The outer darkness is hell.

Angels are not like we depict them in Art work and literature they are powerful spiritual beings.As a example its though before Satan fell From the grace of God revolting he was thought to be a Cherub or Seraphim one of God's most beautiful angels who are closes to God.

Jesus himself said he was in command of legions of Angels if he wished of course he did not call for them.

There are other being at the Alter of God that cannot be explained that are not called Angels.

 

[ProDeo]

The gnashing of teeth may refer to the realization what they missed after being in the glory of God during judgement.

 

[Rockerduck]

Jesus is the light of the world and those that are not in the Light are in the outer darkness without the Love of God. In this life, we can fall in love, love family, feel compassion, and do good things to feel good. But in this life, if you haven't put Jesus into your life, you will be in the outer darkness, without feeling love, feeling good, without the Love of God, forever. That would make me cry, to be separated from the Love of Jesus.

 

[NotTheRock]

Jesus speaks three times of Outer Darkness in Matthew: Matthew 8:12/Matthew 22:13/ and Matthew 25:30. These verses seem to speak a lot about the "Sons of The Kingdom" (Jews) and filthy rags of un-righteousness. In all three parables, the Israelites are the ones He is speaking to and about (IMHO). Although we know that Jew nor Gentile will be allowed into the Kingdom in filthy rags of self righteousness.

Is it possible to still be living on this earth and be thrown into the outer darkness? There are a couple people I know, including myself that can get so very down enough that it sure does seem like the outer darkness of the bible.

This has happened to myself a few times the last 3 or so years. But, when we are so down the only place to go is up. This too has proven true with myself and a dear friend.

What can this mean other than hell itself? Some will argue that it is not hell as there is darkness, and hell will be a lake of fire and fire brings light. Perhaps the darkness is within the soul/spirit and is not meant to be taken literally?

I now find myself praying deeply for a dear Christian friend who is passing "through" this darkness, or something just like it anyhow as it sure does feel like total outer darkness and that God has left us to our own devices.

Some see O.D. as the darkness outside the banquet hall in heaven, "heaven’s suburb."

Just wondering if the outer darkness can be for a time, sort of like "put that man out from you for Satan to kill the flesh and his soul will be saved" (from memory) at least while we still take in air on this earth.

Any comments? Please refrain from nastiness...tanx!

Check out this short, explanatory, video. It's all good Nancy!

 

[Nancy]

The master of parables might use poetic imagery? Imagine that.

I agree that it's imagery, not to be taken literally. However, I don't see anything good in this image. "Fire" has its own imagery. What do the words "outer" and "darkness" conjure up for you?

Judea is on the edge of the Negev desert. What's outside the city walls, outside the Kingdom? Outside the gates it's cold, it's lonely, you're an outsider, there's no food, no water, no light, no hope, no life - and there's snakes. I see the Second Death.

"What do the words "outer" and "darkness" conjure up for you?"

Isolation from others, especially from God. Inability to enjoy even happy times like, a wedding or a new baby; you get the point brother o mine. Very deep sadness and crying over any little thing, flailing alone, alone, alone. Indecisiveness like I've never had before (that is improving, thank God!)
Just a few things that come to mind.
Thanks for the replies!

 

[Rita]

Hi Nancy
I have been looking at the verse you quoted in your opening post. I believe this darkness is different to the darkness that you describe. In all three quotes the context is about future sifting and it is a Godly sifting. When we are in inner darkness it’s us that have moved away from the light , even if we don’t realise it at the time. Jesus has not gone anywhere - his presence is still there because we are still in the kingdom. The darkness mentioned is about being banished from the kingdom, completely away from any light.
Maybe the light in the inner dark places needs to be shown and revealed by others. The Bible states that ’ Your word is a lamp unto my feet ‘ - this is where we perhaps need to have verses around just to read out loud…………..
xxxxxxxx

 

[Nancy]

Check out this short, explanatory, video. It's all good Nancy!

Thank you NotTheRock. I would love to believe in the Universalist teaching idea but, I believe we who still live on this earth are going through re-fining everyday. I do believe in eternal punishment as it is stated in the scriptures.
Thank you for your reply!

 

[Lambano]

 

[APAK]

Jesus speaks three times of Outer Darkness in Matthew: Matthew 8:12/Matthew 22:13/ and Matthew 25:30. These verses seem to speak a lot about the "Sons of The Kingdom" (Jews) and filthy rags of un-righteousness. In all three parables, the Israelites are the ones He is speaking to and about (IMHO). Although we know that Jew nor Gentile will be allowed into the Kingdom in filthy rags of self righteousness.

Is it possible to still be living on this earth and be thrown into the outer darkness? There are a couple people I know, including myself that can get so very down enough that it sure does seem like the outer darkness of the bible.

This has happened to myself a few times the last 3 or so years. But, when we are so down the only place to go is up. This too has proven true with myself and a dear friend.

What can this mean other than hell itself? Some will argue that it is not hell as there is darkness, and hell will be a lake of fire and fire brings light. Perhaps the darkness is within the soul/spirit and is not meant to be taken literally?

I now find myself praying deeply for a dear Christian friend who is passing "through" this darkness, or something just like it anyhow as it sure does feel like total outer darkness and that God has left us to our own devices.

Some see O.D. as the darkness outside the banquet hall in heaven, "heaven’s suburb."

Just wondering if the outer darkness can be for a time, sort of like "put that man out from you for Satan to kill the flesh and his soul will be saved" (from memory) at least while we still take in air on this earth.

Any comments? Please refrain from nastiness...tanx!

Hey Nancy...The 'outer darkness' and the 'gnashing of teeth' spoken of in those three verses of Matthew is the symbolic depiction of those left permanently outside the Kingdom, of the faithful ones. Those 'left outside' quickly die without the life of God within them.

They initially feel deep regret, brief sorrow and even anger (imagine someone saying or crying out, 'why have you left me God' either in anger, or sorrow or deep regret) as their spirits and/or the presence of God departs from their life, and then to permanent (2nd) death of spirit lessness. There are a few verses that reveal these are the same ones thrown into the furnace, not to be tormented however, to be permanently dead.

The symbology of the 'outer darkness' is taken from Biblical times. The faithless are out in the cool of the early evening, usually alone, when banquets or gatherings of Christ's time usually began, and into the night. They regret and are sorrowful, some even angry as they were never invited. Left out in the cold, for sure.

The faithful experience and live 'in' the Kingdom life and the faithless shall never experience this new life, the only life at that point, they are permanently dead, 'outside' the Kingdom. These faithless dead however sense no torment, just a brief sense of regret, anger or sorrow before their immediate death.

This 'outer darkness' and the 'gnashing of teeth' experience is not a scene of torment or any hellish scenario of a real life event whilst living today on this earth at all. However, because true faith in Christ and the Father today means one is now in the Kingdom today, we live knowing we are invited and in the banquet hall of God's Kingdom today. Quite reassuring....

The BL for those that care, or are concerned or even alarmed about this scripture and its contents...be today with God in his Kingdom, in the heart with the spirit of Christ, and have true faith in God, in his Son for life eternal. Not later or for some other future day, TODAY!

 

[Jay Ross]

Check out this short, explanatory, video. It's all good Nancy!

This video presents universal salvation theology and is of itself, heresy.

 

[NotTheRock]

This video presents universal salvation theology and is of itself, heresy.

Ah yes. Jesus tries to lovingly persuade all people to follow him but then turns around and hideously tortures them day and night forever and ever, right? Lol. YOU are the heretic, my brother.

 

[NotTheRock]

Thank you NotTheRock. I would love to believe in the Universalist teaching idea but, I believe we who still live on this earth are going through re-fining everyday. I do believe in eternal punishment as it is stated in the scriptures.
Thank you for your reply!

The ORIGINAL scriptures said NOTHING about "eternal" punishment, but it's ok with me if you think Jesus tortures poor unfortunate souls day and night forever and ever.

 

[ProDeo]

The ORIGINAL scriptures

Where can I download, buy them?

We don't have the original Scriptures, we have copies from copies of the NT.

 

[Lambano]

"What do the words "outer" and "darkness" conjure up for you?"

Isolation from others, especially from God. Inability to enjoy even happy times like, a wedding or a new baby; you get the point brother o mine. Very deep sadness and crying over any little thing, flailing alone, alone, alone. Indecisiveness like I've never had before (that is improving, thank God!)
Just a few things that come to mind.
Thanks for the replies!

Okay, so putting two and two together and getting five (What? You say I can't do that? Here, hold my beer and watch this!), it looks like you see the eschatological punishment of being banished outside into the darkness as being way too similar to the inner darkness you (and your friend) are experiencing now, in real time. Ahh, dear sister, I wish there were an easy fix for that, but that's beyond my own capabilities (though not beyond God's). But, regarding being isolated from God, one thing I can do is, "preach the Gospel to one another, lest we become discouraged" (a quote or echo thereof usually attributed to Marty Luther). So, the Good News is that "God was in Christ reconciling @Nancy to Himself, not counting her sins against her". So, you may not be hearing Him right now, you may not feel it, but He is reconciled to you not alienated from you.

There's something you can hold on to.

Okay?

 

[Lambano]

A weird observation that came to me while I was praying about this thread (yes, sometimes I do pray before posting) ...

One of the three mentions of the Outer Darkness is Matthew 25:14-30, the Parable of the Talents. That one's a head-scratcher. I can't help but wonder, what happened to the fourth servant who invested his talents in Enron stock and blew the whole bundle? (That one is in the apocryphal Gospel of Philip, which didn't make the cut into the canon.) Did he get tossed into the Outer Darkness too? Or did the Master say, "Well, at least you tried, unlike your former colleague out there in the darkness. You're forgiven. Now what did you learn from the experience?" (And a certain scene with Jack Nicholson from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest comes to mind.)

Do I let the fear of failing, even the fear of sinning, keep me from at least TRYING to do the right thing? (We seem to define "righteousness" as "not doing bad things" and forgetting about actually accomplishing some good.)

 

[Nancy]

Okay, so putting two and two together and getting five (What? You say I can't do that? Here, hold my beer and watch this!), it looks like you see the eschatological punishment of being banished outside into the darkness as being way too similar to the inner darkness you (and your friend) are experiencing now, in real time. Ahh, dear sister, I wish there were an easy fix for that, but that's beyond my own capabilities (though not beyond God's). But, regarding being isolated from God, one thing I can do is, "preach the Gospel to one another, lest we become discouraged" (a quote or echo thereof usually attributed to Marty Luther). So, the Good News is that "God was in Christ reconciling @Nancy to Himself, not counting her sins against her". So, you may not be hearing Him right now, you may not feel it, but He is reconciled to you not alienated from you.

There's something you can hold on to.

Okay?

You are so witty brother! At this moment in time and months past, God has pulled me from the deepest mire. He has given me something to look forward to. The inner darkness is quite similar to the outer darkness, yes! He has since, pulled me up into the light, Glory to God for that!
I know there is no easy fix other than to continue in prayer and seeking Him through His word, and obedience in all things.
So, thank you for "preaching the Gospel" to me.
Much love in Christ!