The Veil of Veronica and the Shroud of Turin.

[Magdala]

What difference do they make to your faith?

They further strengthen and confirm my faith, and can serve to bring the unbelieving to belief. These relics are the work of God, and we should bless God for them.

 

[Magdala]

Isaiah 50:6 -
I gave My back to those who struck Me,
And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard;
I did not hide My face from shame and spitting.

And?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

On the following dates, Maria Valtorta received and described these visions:

February 19th, 1944
Burial of Jesus

March 27th, 1945
Jesus's Crucifixion

On the following dates, Maria Valtorta took dictation from Jesus regarding
the Veil of Veronica, now commonly called the Manoppello Veil, and the Shroud of Turin:

"Can you say that I have not loved this land [Italy], where I have brought the relics of My life and My death: the house in Nazareth where I was conceived in an embrace of luminous ardor between the Divine Spirit and the Virgin, and the Shroud where the sweat of My Death imprinted the sign of My pain, suffered for humanity." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1943, July 22nd, 1943)

__________________________________________

"The wounds in My palms, which you have not seen because I barely move My left hand, both because of the habit contracted in work and because it is more wounded, were inflicted in the following way.

The executioners' idea was to hang Me by the wrist joints, immediately above the carpus, to make the attachment more secure. And, in fact, after having extended Me on the cross, they pierced My right hand at this point.

But, since the builder of the scaffold had marked the hole on the left (he usually marked the place for the nails to enable them to enter more easily into the thick wood and make the hanging of a body placed not horizontally, but vertically, and with no other support but three long nails, more secure), more distant than the point which My wrist joint could reach, after having stretched My arm to the point of producing the tearing of My tendons, they decided to hammer the nail into the center of My palm, between the bones of the metacarpus.

This is not observed in the Turin Shroud because the right hand covers the left hand." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1943, December 29th, 1943)

__________________________________________

"The veil of veronica is also a goad to your skeptical souls. Since you, o rationalists, o tepid people vacillating in your faith, proceed through arid examinations, compare the face of the veronica with that of the Holy Shroud. One is the Face of a living person, the other of a dead one. But length, width, somatic types, form, distinctive features, are identical. Superimpose the images. You will see that they correspond. It is I. I Who wanted to remind you how I was and how I had become out of love for you. If you had not gone astray, if you were not blind, those two Faces should be enough to bring you to love, to repentance, to God." (excerpt from The Poem of the Man-God: Vol V, February 2nd, 1944)

__________________________________________

"You have seen the wreath of bruises around My kidneys. Your scientists—to offer proof for your incredulity regarding that proof of My suffering which is the Turin Shroud—explain the manner in which blood, cadervic sweat, and an overstrained body, in being mixed with the aromas, were able to produce that natural painting of My lifeless, tortured Body.

It would be better to believe with no need for so many proofs in order to believe. It would be better to say: 'This is the work of God!' and bless God, Who has granted you possession of the irrefutable proof of My crucifixion and the tortures preceding it!

But since you are no longer able to believe, now, with the simplicity of children, but need scientific proofs—poor faith, yours, which, without the prop and goad of science, is unable to stand up straight and walk—know that the fierce wounds to My kidneys were the most powerful chemical agent in the miracle of the Turin Shroud. My kidneys, nearly shattered by the scourges, were no longer able to function. Like those of people burned in a blaze, they were unable to filter, and the urea accumulated and spread throughout My Blood and My Body, causing the sufferings of uremic intoxication and the reagent transuding from My Corpse which fixed the impress upon the cloth. But whomever among you is a doctor or whoever among you is ill with uremia can grasp the sufferings which the uremic toxins must have caused Me, so abundant as to leave an indelible imprint." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1944, February 20th, 1944)

__________________________________________

"But on the Turin Shroud the face of someone dead for several hours appears. The usual process of edema had already begun, then, all the more intense in someone killed with torture like Mine. It is the transudates spreading from the serous membranes which make you say that a dead person looks the way he did when alive. It is the great pacification which death extends over even the most tortured faces.

In addition, consider that the image appears on a cloth and is fixed upon it through a process of natural aromas and salts.

You know that any stain on a cloth appears prone to expand. But in reality the features of My Face on the morning of the Resurrection—that is, when I ceased to be covered by the Turin Shroud—were swollen in this way.

Life returned to the Living One. But during those forty hours I was quite dead and in no way different from every man who is prey to death. I did not decompose because of the swift Resurrection. But My Body was subject to the rule common to dead bodies, especially those dying of innumerable wounds. I as Victim wanted to annihilate Myself in this respect, too. All decomposition begins with swelling. Let this be directed to all who still have doubts about the veracity of My death." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1944, July 20th, 1944)

__________________________________________

"Now, you know that only a real body yields blood if wounded and that only a real corpse presents a separation of the water part of the blood—which you term 'serum'—from the other, which coagulates into clots or at least is already thicker and darker than living blood, if the time elapsed between death and the discharge of blood is still too short. But I—as My Turin Shroud attests—discharged blood that was already clotted because I had been dead for some time when My side was stricken, and I was already growing cold and stiff, very quickly, on account of the specific conditions which had brought about My rapid death." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1945-1950, February 18th, 1947)

__________________________________________

"My Turin Shroud, O Maria, for whoever is able to see, is not just a testimony that I truly died and rose again, but also testifies to the way I was conceived and born, not according to the laws of humanity. It is thus a confirmation of the truths that My religion teaches: My being conceived through the action of the Holy Spirit, the Divine Maternity of Mary, Her perpetual virginity, My Passion and Death, and My glorious Resurrection. But this is confirmation for those to whom it is granted to see, in the light of God." (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1945-1950, May 20th, 1949)


View attachment 58071​

Just another false prophet in a long line of false prophets.

 

[Magdala]

Just another false prophet in a long line of false prophets.

Calling someone a false spokesman of God is a serious accusation. It's not one that a person should make as a passing comment without substantial evidence as you just did.

 

[WitnessX]

As Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, the Shroud of Turin is "confirmation for those to whom it is granted to see, in the light of God" (excerpt from The Notebooks: 1945-1950, May 20th, 1949). I pray that you'll become one of those people, just as I pray those who are remain so.



In addition to the Holy Shroud, see the Sudarium of Oviedo. Furthermore, there's the computer analysis done in 1976 in the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, U.S.A., which seems to demonstrate that the Man of the Shroud was put a chin-strap. Maria Valtorta, Jesus's spokesman, had already written so in 1944.



Source?



Is the Man of the Shroud shown to have been "poured out like water", and have had a "heart like wax that melted", as also written in Ps. 22:14?



Source?



Source?



Source?

Everything in my post is my source…The Word of God. Go away with your ridiculous claims. I wont be replying again.

 

[Verily]

@WitnessX posted

The Bible describes how Jesus was severely beaten to the point where his appearance was unrecognizable as human. However, the face on the shroud would still be identifiable to those who knew him.

@LuxMundi responds

Source?

@Rockerduck responding with the bible source WitnessX mentions

Isaiah 50:6 -
I gave My back to those who struck Me,
And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard;
I did not hide My face from shame and spitting.

@LuxMundi responds

And?

Me,

And?

His beard looks in tact and hair nicely frames his face, and his visage is unmarred when you compare it to what the scripture says

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men

So it appears to be a false image

 

[Magdala]

Everything in my post is my source…The Word of God. Go away with your ridiculous claims. I wont be replying again.

So, you don't have sources, such as a document, person, or website that corroborates your claims. Ok, thank you.

 

[Magdala]

@WitnessX posted

The Bible describes how Jesus was severely beaten to the point where his appearance was unrecognizable as human. However, the face on the shroud would still be identifiable to those who knew him.

@LuxMundi responds

Source?

@Rockerduck responding with the bible source WitnessX mentions

Isaiah 50:6 -
I gave My back to those who struck Me,
And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard;
I did not hide My face from shame and spitting.

@LuxMundi responds

And?

Me,

And?

His beard looks in tact and hair nicely frames his face, and his visage is unmarred when you compare it to what the scripture says

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men

So it appears to be a false image

Do you have a source, such as a document, person, or website that corroborates your claim that the Shroud of Turin is a false image?

 

[talons]

Just google a picture of anyone lying down and see how their hair falls back from away from their face. Then google pictures of people hanging upside down with long hair or people hanging their heads forward with long hair, its not too difficult to see the obvious. If you need an expert for what a 3 year old can observe thats nuts.

One thing to consider is wasn't our Savior's hair matted with blood ? A crown of thorns we are told in scripture . As the blood dried His hair was stuck together and this is what we see .

Actual Real Face of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin the burial cloth of Jesus Christ?

 

[Verily]

Do you have a source, such as a document, person, or website that corroborates your claim that the Shroud of Turin is a false image?

The word of God seems to do it for us.
I dont believe God has a website but I would still go with his description.

 

[Verily]

One thing to consider is wasn't our Savior's hair matted with blood ? A crown of thorns we are told in scripture . As the blood dried His hair was stuck together and this is what we see .

Actual Real Face of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin the burial cloth of Jesus Christ?

I couldnt tell you.

I just dont believe in the shroud of turin thing

 

[talons]

I couldnt tell you.

Yeah , it is hard for me thinking about a crown of thorns being worn by Someone undeserving of such treatment .

I just dont believe in the shroud of turin thing

I get that .

 

[Magdala]

The word of God seems to do it for us.
I dont believe God has a website but I would still go with his description.

The Word of God lacks test results on the Shroud of Turin, which is why I asked for sources, such as a document, person, or website that corroborates WitnessX's claims about it, but there apparently isn't any.

 

[Verily]

The Word of God lacks test results on the Shroud of Turin, which is why I asked for sources, such as a document, person, or website that corroborates WitnessX's claims about it, but there apparently isn't any.

It lacks just about everything on that shroud thingy, which is good enough for some of us

 

[Magdala]

It lacks just about everything on that shroud [...]

Where's the testing to prove it? Oh yea, I asked for it and there apparently isn't any.

 

[Verily]

Where's the testing to prove it? Oh yea, I asked for it and there apparently isn't any.

Let God be true, but every man a liar

 

[Magdala]

Let God be true, but every man a liar

God is true, and He makes it known what comes from Him, and who speaks for Him, just as He's always done.

 

[Magdala]

Yeah, it is hard for me thinking about a crown of thorns being worn by Someone undeserving of such treatment .

That's why God as man was the perfect sacrifice. That's one of the reasons why He deserves our constant gratitude and love. He loves us so much that He became human to ultimately die for us. Only He could for the reasons explained below. Jesus even said, there's no greater love than giving up your life for another. (Jn. 15:13)

The Father and the Holy Spirit are invisible and incorporeal, as was the Word until that Person of the Holy Trinity became human and was named "Jesus". Human sight or any other human sense never saw God before He became incarnate and cannot physically see the First and Third Persons (the Father and the Holy Spirit), but sees Them in the works which were or are carried out by Them. [N: 45-50]

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

One may say that God could overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the nonincarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

God's mind, God's feeling, and God's spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by his Intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

God had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil. No. With a total sacrifice God had to make reparation for Sin and the sins of all mankind give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

God's sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.

If His Humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man Who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a Spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Father's creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull. [N: 43]