From the pen of Ellen White

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

pepper

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2024
817
658
93
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for demonstrating your bias and failure to thoroughly research and verify sources.
I reject your thanks.
I recognize your presumption that I don't know her work.

And I do not at all pity you for holding to a heretic while presuming to condemn those in Christ who rejects her. And her advocates.

You do know what you are doing. And it is a shame.

One does not hold to the Gospels of Christ and the heresy of sick Maria.

Goodbye.
 

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I reject your thanks.
I recognize your presumption that I don't know her work.

And I do not at all pity you for holding to a heretic while presuming to condemn those in Christ who rejects her. And her advocates.

You do know what you are doing. And it is a shame.

One does not hold to the Gospels of Christ and the heresy of sick Maria.

Goodbye.

Again, you demonstrated your bias and failure to thoroughly research and verify sources, and thus there was no need for me to presume. As for me, I've repeatedly read all of Maria Valtorta's writings for over a decade, and in that time I've familiarized myself with both her critics and supporters, and to this day have successfully refuted every criticism against her laid before me. Jesus makes it known Who His true spokespersons are, just as He's always done, and that's why there's an abundance of proof that Maria Valtorta was one of them. Right now, you're the one in your own way of being able to recognize and accept that.
 
Last edited:

pepper

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2024
817
658
93
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
At this point I feel compelled to warn sister and brother Christians here against the promotion of blasphemy and heresy that is being undertaken in a detail effort in this thread.

Maria Valtorta in what today is known as, channeling, claimed to channel or speak with our Lord Immanuel,Jesus. And her "poem", she claimed was His work as much as hers.
She didn't stop there however.
She also presumed to claim Christ gave her an extended Gospel.

Wikipedia excerpt:

"She is best known for her 5,000 page book The Poem of the Man-God, first published in 1956 and later titled The Gospel as Revealed to Me. The book is based on 10,000 of the 15,000 pages in her handwritten notebooks. The 10,000 pages were mostly written from 1944-1947 and detail the life of Jesus as an extended narrative of the gospels. These handwritten pages were typed on separate pages by her spiritual advisor, Father Romualdo Migliorini, O.S.M, and chronologically reassembled into a book.[3] The additional 5,000 pages were later published as separate books.[4][5]

Her main book was placed on the (now abolished) Index Librorum Prohibitorum in 1959, and has remained controversial since its publication. Various Biblical experts, historians and scientists continue to support and criticize the book to this day, and yearly conferences on the scientific and theological aspects of her writings are held in Italy.[4][6][7][8]"

Source:Maria Valtorta - Wikipedia

Her Apostle here is hijacking this thread so to promote a mentally ill heretic blasphemer. Now dead she shall realize her error.

Ours would be to enable Lux to continue.

Quite frankly I'm surprised his efforts aren't against the rules and in violation of CB's statement of faith.
 

pepper

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2024
817
658
93
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And to add. While we may hold differing opinions regarding the subject/person of this thread, Ellen White, it should be remembered she was a recognized representative of a Christian denomination, Seventh Day Adventists.

Ms.Maria was not.
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
3,524
1,308
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
At this point I feel compelled to warn sister and brother Christians here against the promotion of blasphemy and heresy that is being undertaken in a detail effort in this thread.

Maria Valtorta in what today is known as, channeling, claimed to channel or speak with our Lord Immanuel,Jesus. And her "poem", she claimed was His work as much as hers.
She didn't stop there however.
She also presumed to claim Christ gave her an extended Gospel.

Wikipedia excerpt:

"She is best known for her 5,000 page book The Poem of the Man-God, first published in 1956 and later titled The Gospel as Revealed to Me. The book is based on 10,000 of the 15,000 pages in her handwritten notebooks. The 10,000 pages were mostly written from 1944-1947 and detail the life of Jesus as an extended narrative of the gospels. These handwritten pages were typed on separate pages by her spiritual advisor, Father Romualdo Migliorini, O.S.M, and chronologically reassembled into a book.[3] The additional 5,000 pages were later published as separate books.[4][5]

Her main book was placed on the (now abolished) Index Librorum Prohibitorum in 1959, and has remained controversial since its publication. Various Biblical experts, historians and scientists continue to support and criticize the book to this day, and yearly conferences on the scientific and theological aspects of her writings are held in Italy.[4][6][7][8]"

Source:Maria Valtorta - Wikipedia

Her Apostle here is hijacking this thread so to promote a mentally ill heretic blasphemer. Now dead she shall realize her error.

Ours would be to enable Lux to continue.

Quite frankly I'm surprised his efforts aren't against the rules and in violation of CB's statement of faith.
Thank you for letting us know..
 
  • Like
Reactions: pepper

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
3,524
1,308
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here is one I hadnt come across, very sobering.."Terrible shocks will come upon the earth, and the lordly palaces erected at great expense will certainly become heaps of ruins.—Manuscript Releases 3:312 (1891). CLD 3.1

When God’s restraining hand is removed, the destroyer begins his work. Then in our cities the greatest calamities will come.—Manuscript Releases 3:314 (1897). CLD 3.2

The end is near and every city is to be turned upside down every way. There will be confusion in every city. Everything that can be shaken is to be shaken and we do not know what will come next. The judgments will be according to the wickedness of the people and the light of truth that they have had.—Manuscript Releases 1:248 (1902). CLD 3.3

O that God’s people had a sense of the impending destruction of thousands of cities, now almost given to idolatry.—Evangelism, 29 (1903). CLD 3.4

The time is near when large cities will be swept away, and all should be warned of these coming judgments.—Evangelism, 29 (1910). "
 

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Her main book was placed on the (now abolished) Index Librorum Prohibitorum in 1959, and has remained controversial since its publication.

The first edition of The Poem of the Man-God was placed on the Index because it lacked an imprimatur, but it shouldn't have been, because it had received verbal authorization for publication by Pope Pius XII, which is just as binding. Subsequent editions have received imprimaturs, and have been published and translated into various languages. The following excerpts are the Church’s current position regarding Maria Valtorta’s writings from The Current Juridic and Moral Value of the Index (with Maria Valtorta Case Study):

"The Index no longer has the force of ecclesiastical law; therefore, when one chooses to read, publish, or promote the Poem there is no violation of ecclesiastical law. The various letters issued by prelates in the decades following the abrogation of the Index on the subject of the Poem are not (with the exception of the imprimatur granted by Bishop Pakiam), juridically binding. Hence, a Catholic is permitted to think and act in ways different from the opinions expressed therein. For example, a Catholic who believes the Poem to be of supernatural origin or promotes it as such is not being disobedient to Bishop Tettamanzi’s letter, for the letter has no juridic weight."

" [...] Catholics are free to disagree with the opinions of prelates such as Ratzinger or Tettamanzi, who expressed critical opinions with regard to the Poem; or to disagree with prelates such as Kindukulam or Danylak, who expressed favorable opinions with regard to the Poem [...]

Her Apostle here is hijacking this thread so to promote a mentally ill [...]

I'll stop you there and say that Maria Valtorta wasn't mentally ill when she wrote down the dictations and visions she received from Jesus.


Research. Thoroughly.
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,713
6,886
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What Was Secured by the Death of Christ
By Mrs. E. G. White

It became Him for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in the redemption of the world to save sinners by the blood of the Lamb. The great sacrifice of the Son of God was neither too great nor too small to accomplish the work. In the wisdom of God it was complete; and the atonement made testifies to every son and daughter of Adam the immutability of God's law. The value of the law of Jehovah is to be estimated by the immense price that was paid in the death of the Son of God to maintain its sacredness.

The law of God is a transcript of His character; it portrays the nature of God. As in Christ we behold the brightness of His glory, the express image of His person, so also in the law the attributes of the Father are unfolded. Although the law is unchangeable, His having provided a means of salvation for the law-breaker does not in the least detract from the dignity of the character of God, since the penalty of man's transgression was borne by a divine Substitute. The Father Himself suffered with the Son; for "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Man, with his human, finite judgment, cannot safely question the wisdom of God. Hence it is unbecoming for him to criticize the plan of salvation. Before the theme of redemption, let man lay his wisdom in the dust, and accept the plans of Him whose wisdom is infinite.

God grants men a probation in this world, that their principles may become firmly established in the right, thus precluding the possibility of sin in the future life, and so assuring the happiness and security of all. Through the atonement of the Son of God alone could power be given to man to establish him in righteousness, and make him a fit subject for heaven. The blood of Christ is the eternal antidote for sin. The offensive character of sin is seen in what it cost the Son of God in humiliation, in suffering and death. All the worlds behold in Him a living testimony to the malignity of sin, for in His divine form He bears the marks of the curse. He is in the midst of the throne as a Lamb that hath been slain. The redeemed will ever be vividly impressed with the hateful character of sin, as they behold Him who died for their transgressions. The preciousness of the Offering will be more fully realized as the blood-washed throng more fully comprehend how God has made a new and living way for the salvation of men, through the union of the human and the divine in Christ.

The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin. When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil; the atonement will never need to be repeated; and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God. That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come.

Oh, we do not comprehend the value of the atonement! If we did, we would talk more about it. The gift of God in His beloved Son was the expression of an incomprehensible love. It was the utmost that God could do to preserve the honor of His law, and still save the transgressor. Why should man not study the theme of redemption? It is the greatest subject that can engage the human mind. If men would contemplate the love of Christ, displayed in the cross, their faith would be strengthened to appropriate the merits of His shed blood, and they would be cleansed and saved from sin. There are many who will be lost, because they depend on legal religion, or mere repentance for sin. But repentance for sin alone cannot work the salvation of any soul. Man cannot be saved by his own works. Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion.

God saves man through the blood of Christ alone, and man's belief in, and allegiance to, Christ is salvation. It is no marvel to angels that the infinite sacrifice made by the Son of God was ample enough to bring salvation to a fallen race, but that this atoning sacrifice should have been made is a wonder to the universe. It is a mystery which angels desire to look into. The angels are amazed at the indifference and coldness manifested by those for whom so great a salvation has been provided. They look with grief and holy indignation upon those who do not seek to appreciate the unspeakable gift of God. Instead of offering adoration to God, finite men think themselves capable, without divine unction, of determining what is worthy of praise or blame in their fellow-men. But to be glorified by man is no glory. We should learn to value the praise of man at what it is worth.

The Lord says, "Them that honor me I will honor." Let every breath of praise, every word of exaltation, flow to Him who is worthy, flow to Jesus, the Prince of life, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Elevate the cross of Christ. Elevate the Mediator. Lift up Jesus. In Him is everything noble. Contemplate God in Christ. He is surrounded with angels, cherubim and seraphim continually behold Him. Angelic voices day and night cry before Him: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.... Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing." "Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy; for all nations shall come and worship before thee." But although God only is holy and worthy to be praised, human tongues are perverted to praise and glorify man rather than God.

The greatest gift that God could bestow upon men was bestowed in the gift of His beloved Son. The apostle says, "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" There was nothing held in reserve. No second probation will ever be provided. If the unspeakable gift of God does not lead man to repentance, there is nothing that ever will move his heart. There is no power held in reserve to act upon his mind, and arouse his sensibilities. The whole character of God was revealed in His Son, the whole range of the possibilities of heaven is displayed for the acceptance of man in the Son of the Infinite One. The way for man's return to God and heaven has no barriers. The matchless depths of the Saviour's love have been demonstrated; and if this manifestation of God's love for the children of men does not prevail to draw men to Himself, there is nothing that ever will.

Those who will be saved in the kingdom of God will be those who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. The image of Christ will be perfected in every soul who accepts the gift of His grace, and those who are perfected through His grace, will stand before God equal in elevation, in power and purity, to the angels, and will be honored with them before the eternal throne. The angels of heaven will love those whom Christ has loved, and has bought with His own precious blood.

The attention of all the inhabitants of all worlds will be directed to the cross of Christ, around which will cluster the exceeding and eternal weight of glory. The imagination becomes exhausted in its stretch to comprehend the wonderful work of redemption. The plan of salvation is too high to be fully reached by human thought. It is too grand to be fully embraced by finite comprehension. The apostle says, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." Can we wonder that Heaven is amazed because men act as though the gift of God were valueless? What will be the eternal loss of those who reject so great a salvation, offered freely through the merits of God's only-begotten and well-beloved Son!

Originally published in The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889.

:)
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
3,524
1,308
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The first edition of The Poem of the Man-God was placed on the Index because it lacked an imprimatur, but it shouldn't have been, because it had received verbal authorization for publication by Pope Pius XII, which is just as binding. Subsequent editions have received imprimaturs, and have been published and translated into various languages. The following excerpts are the Church’s current position regarding Maria Valtorta’s writings from The Current Juridic and Moral Value of the Index (with Maria Valtorta Case Study):

"The Index no longer has the force of ecclesiastical law; therefore, when one chooses to read, publish, or promote the Poem there is no violation of ecclesiastical law. The various letters issued by prelates in the decades following the abrogation of the Index on the subject of the Poem are not (with the exception of the imprimatur granted by Bishop Pakiam), juridically binding. Hence, a Catholic is permitted to think and act in ways different from the opinions expressed therein. For example, a Catholic who believes the Poem to be of supernatural origin or promotes it as such is not being disobedient to Bishop Tettamanzi’s letter, for the letter has no juridic weight."

" [...] Catholics are free to disagree with the opinions of prelates such as Ratzinger or Tettamanzi, who expressed critical opinions with regard to the Poem; or to disagree with prelates such as Kindukulam or Danylak, who expressed favorable opinions with regard to the Poem [...]



I'll stop you there and say that Maria Valtorta wasn't mentally ill when she wrote down the dictations and visions she received from Jesus.


Research. Thoroughly.
Well, if her own church rejected her 'channeling', just saying..
 
  • Like
Reactions: pepper

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, if her own church rejected her 'channeling', just saying..

The Catholic Church doesn't reject the idea of private revelations. And, again, there are people within her own Church that expressed critical and favorable opinions of Maria Valtorta's writings. Additionally, there are those who lend credence to her claims:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

It seems that she has written down observations and facts that really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.

(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.

(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.

See also the chapter "Proofs of the Supernatural Origin of Maria Valtorta's Visions Described in Her Work" in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

There will always be those who reject the truth.

Just saying.
 
Last edited:

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
3,524
1,308
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Catholic Church doesn't reject the idea of private revelations. And, again, there are people within her own Church that expressed critical and favorable opinions of Maria Valtorta's writings. Additionally, there are those who lend credence to her claims:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

“In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.”


(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

“It seems that she has written down observations and facts that really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.”

(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

“An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.”

(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

“The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.”

See also the chapter "Proofs of the Supernatural Origin of Maria Valtorta's Visions Described in Her Work" in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.


There will always be those who reject the truth. Just saying.
I can only point you to Gods Word..

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
 

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I can only point you to Gods Word..

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

You cite 2 Pet. 1:20-21 not realizing that it doesn't serve the purpose you think, for Peter is emphasizing that prophecies weren't the result of the prophet's own interpretation. Instead, the prophets wrote under the influence of God. Maria Valtorta, too, wrote what God told her to write.

So, thank you.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Catholic Church doesn't reject the idea of private revelations. And, again, there are people within her own Church that expressed critical and favorable opinions of Maria Valtorta's writings. Additionally, there are those who lend credence to her claims:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:



(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:



(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:



(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:



See also the chapter "Proofs of the Supernatural Origin of Maria Valtorta's Visions Described in Her Work" in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

There will always be those who reject the truth.

Just saying.
As Hobie said... channelling. Fallen angels were present at the time of Jesus and observed everything that took place. It is no surprise that they use that information to deceive the unwary today.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What Was Secured by the Death of Christ
By Mrs. E. G. White?
Thank you for the above. Before I became a Seventh Day Adventist, I was a pentecostal. It's ironic that in the churches I attended, (AOG for the most part) I heard much 'prophecy' , and much teaching about false prophets. So when I began to learn more about Ellen White, and having never heard of her at all previously, I had some serious doubts as to who and what she was. Much I would say as so many do here today, and for the same reason. I had never read any of her work. Just as so many today in this forum and judge her through second hand innuendo, slander, and internet keyboard ex- Adventists.
Then I found some books in a second hand shop. The first 3 , big bulky illustrated "Conflict of the Ages" series. Patriarchs and Prophets.
Prophets and Kings.
Desire of Ages.

Scored for about 10$ the lot. They were in great condition, despite being more than 50 years old. (I also found a 120 year old copy of 'Daniel and Revelation', but that's another story).

After reading Patriarchs and Prophets, I was convinced. That woman loved Jesus. She lived Jesus. Everything she wrote was centered on Jesus and His matchless love for fallen sinners. I had always been an avid reader of not just the Bible, but Christian material. I had never read anything so profound, deep, sensitive, and Bible focused as those books. And it led me to hunger for more of Jesus in my own life. To thirst for righteousness and truth. And not once, ever in all her writings, did she ever exalt herself or demand people to read her work and judge scripture through the light of her writings. Never. It was always scripture first and last. Always. She wanted her work to by judged by scripture.
And I came to accept that Ellen White was no false prophet, but an essential final days voice of prophecy in the mould of John the Baptist...I must decrease while He must increase... preparing the way of the Lord, bringing together fathers and children and presenting in clear beautiful light the true nature and character of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
I cannot recommend those books enough. To all reading this thread, I challenge you to read those 3 books and then return here and explain why Ellen G. White is a false prophet and cult leader. Then I will take you seriously as an unbiased seeker for truth, and not a shoot from the hip type prejudiced defender of others false opinions.
 

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As Hobie said... channelling. Fallen angels were present at the time of Jesus and observed everything that took place. It is no surprise that they use that information to deceive the unwary today.

Do you call Jesus's spokespersons thousands of years ago "channelers"? Nope. You even quote Ellen G. White, a woman considered a visionary and mystic like Maria Valtorta, yet you dismiss the latter without investigating the wealth of proof I handed you that shows she truly was. Jesus could even choose you today, tomorrow, or any other day in the future to be His spokesman like Maria Valtorta and others. What then?

To all reading this thread, I challenge you to read those 3 books and then return here and explain why Ellen G. White is a false prophet and cult leader.

And, I challenge you to read The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, which you can for free here, and then return here and explain why Maria Valtorta is a false spokesman of God.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Catholic Church doesn't reject the idea of private revelations. And, again, there are people within her own Church that expressed critical and favorable opinions of Maria Valtorta's writings. Additionally, there are those who lend credence to her claims:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:



(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:



(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:



(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:



See also the chapter "Proofs of the Supernatural Origin of Maria Valtorta's Visions Described in Her Work" in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

There will always be those who reject the truth.

Just saying.
I would place her on a simila plane as I would Ignatius Loyola and his "spiritual exercises".
Ellen White was not a 'visionar'y or 'mystic' in the same sense as Catholics label their more famous saints.
 

Magdala

Active Member
Dec 25, 2024
617
113
43
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ellen White was not a 'visionar'y or 'mystic'

Ellen White claimed to have received visions from God, just as Maria Valtorta did, and that's called a visionary, and considered a Christian mystic.

As Hobie said... channelling. Fallen angels were present at the time of Jesus and observed everything that took place. It is no surprise that they use that information to deceive the unwary today.

Do you call Jesus's spokespersons thousands of years ago "channelers"? Nope. You even quote Ellen G. White, a woman considered a visionary and mystic like Maria Valtorta, yet you dismiss the latter without investigating the wealth of proof I handed you that shows she truly was. Jesus could even choose you today, tomorrow, or any other day in the future to be His spokesman like Maria Valtorta and others. What then?

To all reading this thread, I challenge you to read those 3 books and then return here and explain why Ellen G. White is a false prophet and cult leader.

And, I challenge you to read The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, which you can for free here, and then return here and explain why Maria Valtorta isn't a spokesman of God. Do you accept?
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Ellen White claimed to have received visions from God, just as Maria Valtorta did, and that's called a visionary, and considered a Christian mystic.



Do you call Jesus's spokespersons thousands of years ago "channelers"? Nope. You even quote Ellen G. White, a woman considered a visionary and mystic like Maria Valtorta, yet you dismiss the latter without investigating the wealth of proof I handed you that shows she truly was. Jesus could even choose you today, tomorrow, or any other day in the future to be His spokesman like Maria Valtorta and others. What then?



And, I challenge you to read The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, which you can for free here, and then return here and explain why Maria Valtorta isn't a spokesman of God. Do you accept?
Nearly 50 years ago I visited a friend, and noticed a book on his coffee table. I had never heard of not seen this book before and put of curiosity, picked it up to peruse. I felt nauseous. I put it down, and began to feel better. I picked it up again and again, felt unwell, but worse than the first time, so much so I nearly threw up in my friends living room. I put the book down again, and 5 minutes later felt okay. Now I was a newly born again Christian, and was not familiar with the many ways that God speaks to us. It never occurred to me that God was saying to me, don't read that book. I picked it up again, same result. I may be slow, but I'm not altogether stupid. I put that book down and resolved never to pick it up again. It was the Book of Mormon.
I was pondering taking up your challenge, and thinking, I'm a gold miner, not a silver miner, but the Lord said in my spirit, go to the link and see what you will find. So I did. I read the introduction, and the next 3 paragraphs. That was enough. God doesn't need to make me unwell these days I hear Him when He speaks, and in those first few paragraphs I found all i need to come back here and state, unequivocally, this woman is not receiving anything from God, but from Satan. Quote...She possessed the greatest purity that a creature of God could have. I grew up Catholic. I understand the "immaculate conception". I know it doesn't apply to Jesus, but to Mary's conception. It stems from the belief that Jesus couldn't inhabit the womb of a common human and live a sinless life, or He would be tainted, so needed a pure mother so as not to inherit the traits of humanity. That my friend is a lie. A deception designed by Satan to take Rnt focus away from Jesus, to Mary, hence her gradual elevation to today where she now presumably holds the lofty position of co-redemptrix and Mediatrix. I don't need to read any further. I reject her as a prophet of God. Visionary maybe, but Satan can give visions. Loyola and classic example. No. No. No. Not going there.