A PECULIAR PEOPLE

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,113
501
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is THAT what these threads are about?
You said.........Okay, I see you're peddling Dispensationalism. At least I know where you're coming from now.

I assume you do not agree with dispensationalism so I quoted .....correct me if I am wrong

[Luk 18:22 KJV] 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

I asked Have you sold all?

If you havent then you didnt think this verse had to be obeyed by you.....on what basis did you decide if you dont recognize didpensations
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,113
501
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you suppose Paul meant by "the Israel of God"?
Thought you might find this of interest

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV] 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Who is the Israel of God?

Those in Christ who are a new creature are the body of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 1 Corinthians 12:27).

In Galatians above there are two groups; the body of Christ and the Israel of God.

It is those in the body of Christ that would walk (live) according to the rule of the new creature.

We learn that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avail in Paul's writing to the body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 7:19 Galatians 5:6 Colossians 3:11).

Therefore we can say that it is the body of Christ who were bestowed with peace and mercy in Galatians 6:16.

Paul bestowed peace and mercy to the Israel of God as well. If the Israel of God is the church today, the body of Christ, as say some, then the blessings are the same and are redundant. Therefore the Israel of God can not be the body of Christ.

Who then is the Israel of God? It is called Israel so it must be Israel.

Which Israel is it?

Not all Israel is Israel (Romans 9:6). There is unbelieving Israel and believing Israel The Israel of God is the believing remnant of Israel (Isiah 1:9 Jeremiah 23:3 31:7 Revelation 12:17 Luke 12:32).

Circumcision will avail nonetheless.

[Eze 37:26 KJV] 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

[Isa 54:10 KJV] 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

God has an everlasting covenant of peace to Israel.
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,546
11,671
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Luk 18:22 KJV] 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Have you sold all?
I'm going to have to ask again: Is this particular form of Dispensationalism just a means to get around the fact that "Faith" as preached by Paul and indeed Peter, John, James, et. al. can be VERY costly (as Paul's own life showed!) and may require us to give up our material goods (and our very lives!) and just trust God to provide?

(Oh, that was just those Jews back then. It doesn't apply to us.)

It's a question that should make a lot of people uncomfortable - including me.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,113
501
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm going to have to ask again: Is this particular form of Dispensationalism just a means to get around the fact that "Faith" as preached by Paul and indeed Peter, John, James, et. al. can be VERY costly (as Paul's own life showed!) and may require us to give up our material goods (and our very lives!) and just trust God to provide?

(Oh, that was just those Jews back then. It doesn't apply to us.)

It's a question that should make a lot of people uncomfortable - including me.
Actually it was commanded to Israel
[Luk 12:32-33 KJV] 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
He talking about the little flock which is the believing remnant of Israel and about entering the kingdom on earth
Paul never gives command to us to sell so why would you have to spiritualize this verse to make it apply to you
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Luk 18:22 KJV] 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

I asked Have you sold all?

If you havent then you didnt think this verse had to be obeyed by you.....on what basis did you decide if you dont recognize didpensations

Why do you think Zacchaeus only gave half to the poor?

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Why did this son of Abraham not give all?
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,113
501
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If Christ's commandments reflect His desires, how do you know Jesus's commandments to His disciples don't reflect His desires for you too?
I can learn from them but rightly divide his word to know what commandments I obey
Not being smart but it's the same way I dont think Mark 16 applies directly to me
[Mar 16:17-18 KJV] 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I dont think I speak in tongues or can handle snakes or drink poison
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,113
501
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why do you think Zacchaeus only gave half to the poor?

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Why did this son of Abraham not give all?
I dont know
Looking at the surrounding context I noted that in the following parable the rewards given in the kingdom are based on the amount of money gained (Luke 19:11-27)
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I dont know
Looking at the surrounding context I noted that in the following parable the rewards given in the kingdom are based on the amount of money gained (Luke 19:11-27)


Obviously, they were two rich men, and even Paul speaks of charging them that are rich in this world in the following verses saying,

Paul said,

1 Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1 Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1 Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Even as there is laying up for yourselves treasures in heaven (not on earth) for where our treasure is, there will our heart be also.

Zacchaeus also was a rich man (as the rich young ruler)

Luke 19
[2]And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
[8] And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. (Exodus 22:1, & 2 Sam 12:6 )
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

He was also a publican, and the publicans are also said to have believed John who preached repentance. And I believe that in Zacchaeus/the publican is demonstrated the godly repentance spoken of in 2 Cr 7:10 which appear to be in accordance with Jesus words which follow his)

2 Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of...

So godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation
Even as Jesus said to him, "This day is salvation come to this house"

In contrast to the above rich man, was this other rich young ruler (both of these being rich)

Mark.10
[17] And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
[19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
[20] And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
[21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
[22] And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

And we know, if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him 1 John 2:15

He went away grieved over this saying because he had great possessions, which is equivilent to, "the sorrow of the world which worketh death."

Which is in contrast to what we see in Zacchaeus (the first part of this verse)

2 Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: (Zacchaeus) but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (Rich young ruler)

As far as the parables showing money and gains the same shows the sowing of seed and increases by the same, while in Mark 4:13 the increase itself varries according to what particular ground the seed was sown. As far as one parable to another, Jesus said,

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

They do seem to be a picture of godly sorrow (as is shown us in Zacchaeus) and worldly sorrow (as is shown us in the rich young ruler). In the one is the willingingness to distribute to the poor (as shown us in Zacchaeus) whereas in the other is grief (See also Deut 15:10 about being grieved in giving) in that he is even asked to do so (as shown in the rich young ruler). In the one "salvation is come to this house" (as Jesus speaks of it shown us in Zacchaeus, See also 2 Cr 9:10 about the cheerful giver). In the former we see the sorrow of the world which worketh death (as is shown us in the rich young ruler) in his going away grieved because of the fact that he had such great possessions. And in the other godly sorrow and a cheerful giver (in contrast to Deut 15:10 and so is blessed) even as we see Jesus (who is the most blessed) say to him, " for to day I must abide at thy house" Luke 19:5 Which is like this beautiful picture of the blessing of God (which we have in Christ) coming to someone (in the picture of Zacchaeus) insisting he must abide at his house knowing these things.