Who or What is Babylon the Great? How do God’s people come to be in her?

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Aunty Jane

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I've been doing my best to get out of that system from the moment I first heard those words.
It’s not just fleeing from a place of spiritual danger…it’s where you flee to.

Have you found that place of spiritual safety where all your brothers and sisters are all of one mind and one truth? (1 Cor 1:10)

When the persecution of Christians was foretold, I remember Jesus telling his disciples to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem “surrounded by encamped armies”. They must have wondered how that would be possible if those armies were already there, posing a threat....? (Luke 21:20-24)

After giving them the signs to look for and telling them...(vs34-36)
“But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”

This was a far reaching prophesy that pertained to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in the first century, but also describing the “time of the end” when Jesus was to return.....a time when all living humans will stand before “the son of man”....as their appointed judge.

So many years passed with no real threat to Jerusalem being seen. But we know from the Bible account that the Romans finally laid siege to Jerusalem in 66CE (over 30 years into the future)…..and the threat was very real, but inexplicably, and for no apparent reason, they withdrew, and gave the Christians the opportunity to obey Jesus’ instructions. They fled to the mountains and settled in a little town called Pella. With nothing but the clothes on their backs and a few provisions, they started a new life and stayed in Pella despite the fact that Roman armies had not returned.....many must have wondered if Jesus was right in telling them to pull up stakes and leave the area with nothing, because it seemed as if the threat had been removed. And no doubt, after a couple of years, they may have wondered if it was all right to return to their homes and businesses. Some may have done so.....but in 70CE, without warning, the Romans came back with unfinished business on their minds, and besieged the city causing mass starvation and unimaginable heartbreak for all who were caught unawares in the city. Their city and Temple were destroyed as Jesus had foretold.....”not a stone left upon a stone”. (Matt 24:1-2) Many thousands of lives were lost.
But when Jesus told them what to do, it was without a timeframe. He never said how long it would take for his prophesy to be fulfilled, but he kept the reality of the kingdom right before them as a finish line that was in sight, but knowing all the while that “the end” was still 2000 human years into the future.

God has never operated in earth time which is exclusive to earthly creatures....God and the angels operate in universal time where a “thousand years” is like “one day” to the Creator. (2 Pet 3:8)

God’s main targets for his lesson in obedience was primarily to do with the first rebel...who was not human, but who took humans as hostages in his scheme to become their god. This spirit creature challenged Jehovah’s Sovereignty....the right to set limits to the free will that he had generously given to all his children.

As part of his answer to the challenges the devil had put to him, God chose one nation to become his “special property” and by which a savior would come into the world to undo all the damage that satan had done and would still do to God’s entire creation. Every living thing has suffered under his mismanagement, along with the potential destruction of the earth itself and its many ineracting systems...only now in this 21st century do we see that man is capable of destroying everything that sustains life here. God was never going to allow the devil to finish what he started......he would “cut the days short” or “no flesh would survive”. (Luke 21: 21-22)

Now more than ever do God’s worshippers need unity and cohesion. So in obeying God’s directive in Revelation 18:4-5, where do we go in order to flee to safety today? What part of Christendom do we choose to be that place of spiritual safety, when there is no consensus as to what is truth? Would God provide no collective of people in order to give them direction and guidance? (Heb 10:24-25)
Jesus told us that “few” are on the road to life....so who are the “few”? Are these merely individuals who are scattered among those many denominations?
That would be an answer except that these individuals also disagree on what is truth. If they all agreed, then that would be the proof of the operation of Jehovah’s spirit.....but they differ as much as Christendom does.

Those who reject “organised religion” are denying that Jehovah is an organised God for whom nothing happens haphazardly. He has always gathered his people into one “nation” or “people” who all have one set of beliefs, and who all serve their God out of love, not fear. They know, like the apostles, who their God is, and who is the one who “sent” his Messiah into the world. (1 Cor 8:5-6; John 17:3)

They will be the ones out “preaching the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth” (Matt 24:14) because they are one united global brotherhood whose main objective is to serve their God amid strong opposition, just as the first Christians did. (John 15:18-21)

So again...where have you fled to?....
 
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quietthinker

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It’s not just fleeing from a place of spiritual danger…it’s where you flee to.

Have you found that place of spiritual safety where all your brothers and sisters are all of one mind and one truth? (1 Cor 1:10)

When the persecution of Christians was foretold, I remember Jesus telling his disciples to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem “surrounded by encamped armies”. They must have wondered how that would be possible if those armies were already there, posing a threat....? (Luke 21:20-24)

After giving them the signs to look for and telling them...(vs34-36)
“But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”

This was a far reaching prophesy that pertained to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in the first century, but also describing the “time of the end” when Jesus was to return.....a time when all living humans will stand before “the son of man”....as their appointed judge.

So many passed with no real threat to Jerusalem being seen. But we know from the Bible account that the Romans finally laid siege to Jerusalem in 66CE (over 30 years into the future)…..and the threat was very real, but inexplicably, and for no apparent reason, they withdrew, and gave the Christians the opportunity to obey Jesus’ instructions. They fled to the mountains and settled in a little town called Pella. With nothing but the clothes on their backs and a few provisions, they started a new life and stayed in Pella despite the fact that Roman armies had not returned.....many must have wondered if Jesus was right in telling them to pull up stakes and leave the area with nothing, because it seemed as if the threat had been removed. And no doubt, after a couple of years, they may have wondered if it was all right to return to their homes and businesses. Some may have done so.....but in 70CE, without warning, the Romans came back with unfinished business on their minds, and besieged the city causing mass starvation and unimaginable heartbreak for all who were caught unawares in the city. Their city and Temple were destroyed as Jesus had foretold.....”not a stone left upon a stone”. (Matt 24:1-2) Many thousands of lives were lost.
But when Jesus told them what to do, it was without a timeframe. He never said how long it would take for his prophesy to be fulfilled, but he kept the reality of the kingdom right before them as a finish line that was in sight, but knowing all the while that “the end” was still 2000 human years into the future.

God has never operated in earth time which is exclusive to earthly creatures....God and the angels operate in universal time where a “thousand years” is like “one day” to the Creator. (2 Pet 3:8)

God’s main targets for his lesson in obedience was primarily to do with the first rebel...who was not human, but who took humans as hostages in his scheme to become their god. This spirit creature challenged Jehovah’s Sovereignty....the right to set limits to the free will that he had generously given to all his children.

As part of his answer to the changes the devil had put to him, God chose one nation to become his “special property” and by which a savior would come into the world to undo all the damage that satan had done and would still do to God’s entire creation. Every living thing has suffered under his mismanagement, along with the potential destruction of the earth itself and its many ineracting systems...only now in this 21st century do we see that man is capable of destroying everything that sustains life here. God was never going to allow the devil to finish what he started......he would “cut the days short” or “no flesh would survive”. (Luke 21: 21-22)

So, now more than ever do God’s worshippers need unity and cohesion. So in obeying God’s directive in Revelation 18:4-5, where do we go in order to flee to safety today? What part of Christendom do we choose to be that place of spiritual safety, when there is no consensus as to what is truth? Would God provide no collective of people in order to give them direction and guidance? (Heb 10:24-25)
Jesus told us that “few” are on the road to life....so who are the “few”? Are these merely individuals who are scattered among those many denominations?
That would be an answer except that these individuals also disagree on what is truth. If they all agreed, then that would be the proof of the operation of Jehovah’s spirit.....but they differ as much as Christendom does.

Those who reject “organised religion” are denying that Jehovah is an organised God for whom nothing happens haphazardly. He has always gathered his people into one “nation” or “people” who all have one set of beliefs, and who all serve their God out of love, not fear. They know, like the apostles, who their God is, and who is the one who “sent” his Messiah into the world. (1 Cor 8:5-6; John 17:3)

They will be the ones out “preaching the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth” (Matt 24:14) because they are one united global brotherhood whose main objective is to serve their God amid strong opposition, just as the first Christians did. (John 15:18-21)

So again...where have you fled to?....
Your plug AJ is for your denomination, that much is clear, however, you see your denomination with rose coloured glasses. It is an unreal view and evaluation.

There is also, in your many words, no plug for Jesus, the one in whom the believers hope resides. It is eclipsed by the implied plug for JW's.
Something to consider?
 

Aunty Jane

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Your plug AJ is for your denomination, that much is clear, however, you see your denomination with rose coloured glasses. It is an unreal view and evaluation.

There is also, in your many words, no plug for Jesus, the one in whom the believers hope resides. It is eclipsed by the implied plug for JW's.
Something to consider?
QT, since you obviously have no denomination for which you plug.....what has that got to do with me?

Every person here is plugging the beliefs of their denomination even if they are the only one in it....does that describe you? Is it even possible to be a “Christian” without a brotherhood who believe as you do?

What color are your glasses? How do we evaluate your view?
Did my post make you uncomfortable, since it is just the plain truth of Scripture?
Yahweh has always been an “organised” God...please tell me when he wasn’t....?

If you have some particular points to criticize in my post, please make them specific so I know how to respond.....these vague generalities are meaningless.
 
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quietthinker

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If you have some particular points to criticize in my post, please make them specific so I know how to respond.....these vague generalities are meaningless.
Particular points? you read my post and didn't notice any particular points?.....Why am I not surprised!
 
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Aunty Jane

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Particular points? you read my post and didn't notice any particular points?.....Why am I not surprised!
Well, I went back and re read your post and still didn’t get any particular points apart from the general criticism of JW’s for which you miss no opportunity for some reason.

Your vague replies generally make no sense to me, but I am sure they are deep and meaningful to you….

Unless the criticism is constructive however, which yours never is, how is there an appropriate response or an opportunity to dispel some myth that has been created about us?

Understanding that Jesus himself said that his true disciples would be hated and persecuted in the world for doing nothing wrong, has been our experience. What about you and your brotherhood QT…. Tell us a bit about yourself and the brotherhood who believe as you do…..who are your teachers?….to whom do you submit as “those taking the lead among you” (Heb 13:17)……so that we can scrutinize them as you seem to want to scrutinize us….fair call?
 
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quietthinker

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Well, I went back and re read you post and still didn’t get any particular points apart from the general criticism of JW’s for which you miss no opportunity for some reason.
Hmmmm. Oh dear AJ, I really don't know where to start. If you don't see you don't see and there is no point rubbing your nose in it....you still wouldn't see; my guess is from your answers is you would just double down .....and we would get nowhere.
 

Aunty Jane

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Hmmmm. Oh dear AJ, I really don't know where to start. If you don't see you don't see and there is no point rubbing your nose in it....you still wouldn't see; my guess is from your answers is you would just double down .....and we would get nowhere.
It’s impossible to get anywhere with someone who cannot articulate anything in a clear and concise sentence. You speak in riddles that only you seem to understand.
I give up…..seriously….You think people are mind readers….I am not good at that.
 
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quietthinker

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It’s impossible to get anywhere with someone who cannot articulate anything in a clear and concise sentence. You speak in riddles that only you seem to understand.
I give up…..seriously….You think people are mind readers….I not good at that.
Have you ever drawn the same conclusion from what and how Jesus responded?
 

Hobie

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It’s not just fleeing from a place of spiritual danger…it’s where you flee to.

Have you found that place of spiritual safety where all your brothers and sisters are all of one mind and one truth? (1 Cor 1:10)

When the persecution of Christians was foretold, I remember Jesus telling his disciples to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem “surrounded by encamped armies”. They must have wondered how that would be possible if those armies were already there, posing a threat....? (Luke 21:20-24)

After giving them the signs to look for and telling them...(vs34-36)
“But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”

This was a far reaching prophesy that pertained to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in the first century, but also describing the “time of the end” when Jesus was to return.....a time when all living humans will stand before “the son of man”....as their appointed judge.

So many years passed with no real threat to Jerusalem being seen. But we know from the Bible account that the Romans finally laid siege to Jerusalem in 66CE (over 30 years into the future)…..and the threat was very real, but inexplicably, and for no apparent reason, they withdrew, and gave the Christians the opportunity to obey Jesus’ instructions. They fled to the mountains and settled in a little town called Pella. With nothing but the clothes on their backs and a few provisions, they started a new life and stayed in Pella despite the fact that Roman armies had not returned.....many must have wondered if Jesus was right in telling them to pull up stakes and leave the area with nothing, because it seemed as if the threat had been removed. And no doubt, after a couple of years, they may have wondered if it was all right to return to their homes and businesses. Some may have done so.....but in 70CE, without warning, the Romans came back with unfinished business on their minds, and besieged the city causing mass starvation and unimaginable heartbreak for all who were caught unawares in the city. Their city and Temple were destroyed as Jesus had foretold.....”not a stone left upon a stone”. (Matt 24:1-2) Many thousands of lives were lost.
But when Jesus told them what to do, it was without a timeframe. He never said how long it would take for his prophesy to be fulfilled, but he kept the reality of the kingdom right before them as a finish line that was in sight, but knowing all the while that “the end” was still 2000 human years into the future.

God has never operated in earth time which is exclusive to earthly creatures....God and the angels operate in universal time where a “thousand years” is like “one day” to the Creator. (2 Pet 3:8)

God’s main targets for his lesson in obedience was primarily to do with the first rebel...who was not human, but who took humans as hostages in his scheme to become their god. This spirit creature challenged Jehovah’s Sovereignty....the right to set limits to the free will that he had generously given to all his children.

As part of his answer to the challenges the devil had put to him, God chose one nation to become his “special property” and by which a savior would come into the world to undo all the damage that satan had done and would still do to God’s entire creation. Every living thing has suffered under his mismanagement, along with the potential destruction of the earth itself and its many ineracting systems...only now in this 21st century do we see that man is capable of destroying everything that sustains life here. God was never going to allow the devil to finish what he started......he would “cut the days short” or “no flesh would survive”. (Luke 21: 21-22)

Now more than ever do God’s worshippers need unity and cohesion. So in obeying God’s directive in Revelation 18:4-5, where do we go in order to flee to safety today? What part of Christendom do we choose to be that place of spiritual safety, when there is no consensus as to what is truth? Would God provide no collective of people in order to give them direction and guidance? (Heb 10:24-25)
Jesus told us that “few” are on the road to life....so who are the “few”? Are these merely individuals who are scattered among those many denominations?
That would be an answer except that these individuals also disagree on what is truth. If they all agreed, then that would be the proof of the operation of Jehovah’s spirit.....but they differ as much as Christendom does.

Those who reject “organised religion” are denying that Jehovah is an organised God for whom nothing happens haphazardly. He has always gathered his people into one “nation” or “people” who all have one set of beliefs, and who all serve their God out of love, not fear. They know, like the apostles, who their God is, and who is the one who “sent” his Messiah into the world. (1 Cor 8:5-6; John 17:3)

They will be the ones out “preaching the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth” (Matt 24:14) because they are one united global brotherhood whose main objective is to serve their God amid strong opposition, just as the first Christians did. (John 15:18-21)

So again...where have you fled to?....
Yes Aunty, you have to look for where there is truth in the path you choose. Now God has given us truth in a way that we can discern in His Word, God does things in a orderly way and in decent form. Thus He created everything in an orderly sequence in a six-day period with the things that were needed for the subsequent plants and animals and even man. Thats why He made the Sabbath for man on the seventh day, so that he could cease from his labors and rest, otherwise it would be work 24/7 and 365 days of the year to say nothing of the loss of a time to commune with God.
 

Aunty Jane

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Yes Aunty, you have to look for where there is truth in the path you choose. Now God has given us truth in a way that we can discern in His Word, God does things in a orderly way and in decent form. Thus He created everything in an orderly sequence in a six-day period with the things that were needed for the subsequent plants and animals and even man. Thats why He made the Sabbath for man on the seventh day, so that he could cease from his labors and rest, otherwise it would be work 24/7 and 365 days of the year to say nothing of the loss of a time to commune with God.
Can you provide Scripture that mentions a Sabbath observance by those who predated the formation of the nation of Israel, to whom the Sabbath law was mandated?

And can you show me where the early Christians observed a Sabbath after the death of Christ?
All the first Christians were Jewish and naturally observed the Law until Christ died and cancelled it.

When the Jewish Christians wanted the gentile Christians to get circumcised and to follow the Law, a great deal of dissension arose over this.…so in order to restore peace, the apostles and elders met together to payerfully discuss the matter and to settle it.

Their conclusions were declared in a letter sent to the congregations…..under the guidance of the holy spirit they wrote….

”For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!

The “necessay things” did not include a Sabbath observance or circumcision….gentiles were not under the law, only Jews were. I am not Jewish and neither are the majority of Christian today.
If one wishes to observe a Sabbath for their own personal reasons to set aside a day for spiritual reflection or worship…they are free to do so….but they are not free to impose that as a requirement for others when Jesus and the apostles never did.
 
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pepper

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Readers be aware: A Jehovah Witness asks the question.
 

Aunty Jane

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Readers be aware: A Jehovah Witness asks the question.
Deep and meaningful. Not a response to any question asked, but just that….ooooh beware the Jehovah’s Witness who ask questions we cannot answer….

You know, I’ll bet the Pharisees said the same kind of thing to the Jews who found Jesus’ preaching to be somewhat more scripturally sound than the garbage they were teaching…..just sayin’…..
They had no answers either…
 
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quietthinker

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Deep and meaningful. Not a response to any question asked, but just that….ooooh beware the Jehovah’s Witness who ask questions we cannot answer….

You know, I’ll bet the Pharisees said the same kind of thing to the Jews who found Jesus’ preaching to be somewhat more scripturally sound than the garbage they were teaching…..just sayin’…..
They had no answers either…
I surmise the things Jesus said were too cryptic for those holding the common view.
Stuff like drinking his blood and eating his flesh, though not cryptic, would have spun them out......particularly for those who cannot or will not get their head around metaphors in scripture......even though metaphors are common and used in every day language.
 

pepper

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Why not look to your own JW website? Or,do you propose to teach Christians what JW's believe about Babylon the Great.

Babylon the Great​


Definition: The world empire of false religion, embracing all religions whose teachings and practices do not conform to the true worship of Jehovah, the only true God. Following the Flood of Noah’s day, false religion had its beginning at Babel (later known as Babylon). (Gen. 10:8-10; 11:4-9) In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole.
What evidence points to the identity of Babylon the Great, referred to in Revelation?
It could not be the ancient city of Babylon. Revelation was written at the end of the first century C.E. and describes events that would reach down to our day. The Encyclopedia Americana says: “The city [Babylon] was taken by the Persians under Cyrus the Great in 539 B.C. Later Alexander the Great planned to make Babylon the capital of his eastern empire, but after his death Babylon gradually lost importance.” (1956, Vol. III, p. 7) Today the city is an uninhabited ruin.
In the symbolism of Revelation, Babylon the Great is referred to as a “great city,” a “kingdom” that rules other kings. (Rev. 17:18) Like a city, it would have many organizations within it; and like a kingdom that includes other kings in its domain, it would be international in scope. It is described as having relations with political rulers and contributing much to the wealth of men in commerce, while itself being a third element that “has become a dwelling place of demons” and a persecutor of “prophets and of holy ones.”—Rev. 18:2, 9-17, 24.
Ancient Babylon was outstandingly noted for its religion and its defiance of Jehovah
Gen. 10:8-10: “Nimrod . . . displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. . . . And the beginning of his kingdom came to be Babel [later known as Babylon].”
Dan. 5:22, 23: “As for you [Belshazzar king of Babylon] . . . against the Lord of the heavens you exalted yourself, . . . and you have praised mere gods of silver and of gold, copper, iron, wood and stone, that are beholding nothing or hearing nothing or knowing nothing; but the God in whose hand your breath is and to whom all your ways belong you have not glorified.”
An ancient cuneiform inscription reads: “Altogether there are in Babylon 53 temples of the chief gods, 55 chapels of Marduk, 300 chapels for the earthly deities, 600 for the heavenly deities, 180 altars for the goddess Ishtar, 180 for the gods Nergal and Adad and 12 other altars for different gods.”—Quoted in The Bible as History (New York, 1964), W. Keller, p. 301.
The Encyclopedia Americana comments: “Sumerian civilization [which was part of Babylonia] was dominated by priests; at the head of the state was the lugal (literally ‘great man’), the representative of the gods.”—(1977), Vol. 3, p. 9.
Reasonably, therefore, Babylon the Great as referred to in Revelation is religious. Being like a city and an empire, it is not limited to one religious group but includes all religions that are in opposition to Jehovah, the true God.
Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide
“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.
Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
Use of images: “[In Mesopotamian religion] the role of the image was central in the cult as well as in private worship, as the wide distribution of cheap replicas of such images shows. Fundamentally, the deity was considered present in its image if it showed certain specific features and paraphernalia and was cared for in the appropriate manner.”—Ancient Mesopotamia—Portrait of a Dead Civilization (Chicago, 1964), A. L. Oppenheim, p. 184.
Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.
Position of the priesthood: “The distinction between priest and layman is characteristic of this [Babylonian] religion.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1948), Vol. 2, p. 861.
Practice of astrology, divination, magic, and sorcery: Historian A. H. Sayce writes: “[In] the religion of ancient Babylonia . . . every object and force of nature was supposed to have its zi or spirit, who could be controlled by the magical exorcisms of the Shaman, or sorcerer-priest.” (The History of Nations, New York, 1928, Vol. I, p. 96) “The Chaldeans [Babylonians] made great progress in the study of astronomy through an effort to discover the future in the stars. This art we call ‘astrology.’”—The Dawn of Civilization and Life in the Ancient East (Chicago, 1938), R. M. Engberg, p. 230.
 

pepper

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Babylon the Great is like an immoral harlot, one living in shameless luxury
Revelation 17:1-5 says: “‘Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters [peoples], with whom the kings [political rulers] of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’ . . . And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.’” Revelation 18:7 adds that “she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury.”
Is it not true that the dominant religious organizations have made it a practice to consort with political rulers for power and material gain, though this has resulted in suffering for the common people? Is it not also true that their higher clergy live in luxury, even though many of the people to whom they should minister may be impoverished?
Why can religions that profess to be Christian properly be viewed as a part of Babylon the Great, along with those who know nothing of the God of the Bible?
Jas. 4:4: “Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.” (So, though they know what the Bible says about God, they make themselves his enemies if they choose friendship with the world by imitating its ways.)
2 Cor. 4:4; 11:14, 15: “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.” (Thus Jehovah’s chief adversary, Satan the Devil himself, is really being honored by all who do not worship the true God in the manner that He has appointed, even though they may claim to be Christians. See also 1 Corinthians 10:20.)
Matt. 7:21-23: “Not everyone saying to me [Jesus Christ], ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Why is it urgent to get out of Babylon the Great without delay?
Rev. 18:4: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”
Rev. 18:21: “A strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: ‘Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.’”
Luke 21:36: “Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man.”
What will happen to people who did not know Bible truth but lived and died in the past as part of Babylon the Great?
Acts 17:30: “God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.”
Acts 24:15: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (As to which ones of “the unrighteous” will be raised, God will decide.)
Job 34:12: “For a fact, God himself does not act wickedly, and the Almighty himself does not pervert judgment.”

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Aunty Jane

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I surmise the things Jesus said were too cryptic for those holding the common view.
Stuff like drinking his blood and eating his flesh, though not cryptic, would have spun them out......particularly for those who cannot or will not get their head around metaphors in scripture......even though metaphors are common and used in every day language.
I don’t find much to be cryptic in Jesus’ teachings TBH. When the disciples wanted to know the meaning of a parable, they asked and Jesus explained. It’s all recorded for us.
Not everything is a metaphor….things can get a little complicated when you try to read something cryptic into every little thing.
 
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quietthinker

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I don’t find much to be cryptic in Jesus’ teachings TBH. When the disciples wanted to know the meaning of a parable, they asked and Jesus explained. It’s all recorded for us.
Not everything is a metaphor….things can get a little complicated when you try to read something cryptic into every little thing.
Luke 9:45
'But they didn't know what he meant. Its significance was hidden from them, so they couldn't understand it, and they were afraid to ask him....'
 

Hobie

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QT, since you obviously have no denomination for which you plug.....what has that got to do with me?

Every person here is plugging the beliefs of their denomination even if they are the only one in it....does that describe you? Is it even possible to be a “Christian” without a brotherhood who believe as you do?

What color are your glasses? How do we evaluate your view?
Did my post make you uncomfortable, since it is just the plain truth of Scripture?
Yahweh has always been an “organised” God...please tell me when he wasn’t....?

If you have some particular points to criticize in my post, please make them specific so I know how to respond.....these vague generalities are meaningless.
I think we should set aside 'denomination' or 'creeds' as the Reformation stumbled at that point and come together over Gods Word the Sola Scriptura they were following. We cannot fail if we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth...