Deflecting, as usual.
only begotten. Gr. monogenēs (S# G3439, Luk_7:12). Heb_11:18, *Gen_22:2; *Gen_22:12; *Gen_22:16; Gen_25:6, +Luk_7:12; Luk_8:42; Luk_9:38, Jhn_1:14; Jhn_1:18; **Jhn_3:16; Jhn_3:18, 1Jn_4:9.
But I'm tired now.
J.
Jesus in the burnt offering
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only begotten. Gr. monogenēs (S# G3439, Luk_7:12). Heb_11:18, *Gen_22:2; *Gen_22:12; *Gen_22:16; Gen_25:6, +Luk_7:12; Luk_8:42; Luk_9:38, Jhn_1:14; Jhn_1:18; **Jhn_3:16; Jhn_3:18, 1Jn_4:9.
But I'm tired now.
J.
Just use the word "only" they are synonomous between both places every other translation uses only, I beleive the KJV just brings out the obvious.
Look at the allegory Paul shows between the bondwomans son and the freewomans, one corresponds to the Jerusalem that then was.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Only son and and only begotten son are NOT synonymous! It is understood that Isaac is Abraham's only legal son.
The KJV adds to God's word what is not there. No need to be schizo, right @APAK? Simple fact: Isaac is NOT Abraham's only begotten son.
Isaac is Abraham's son of promise, his legal heir.
Best to stick to God's words without adding words to make it seem more foreshadowing than it is.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Paul asks,
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
The law tells us by these two which one is born after the flesh (for example, Ishmael, the seed of Abraham according to the flesh) verses Isaac (who was son of promise)
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Hagar represents a covenant, as the bondwoman
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Which is not the Jerusalem which is above
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Again this way,
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. (Romans 9:7)
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Paul says,
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Likewise the same which pertains to the Spirit
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Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (John 15:20)
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Paul also says of these here,
Gal 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
And of the son of the bondwoman (because he was Abraham's seed according to the flesh) God says, he would be made "a" nation"
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
The heir,
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Abraham and his seed, is Christ
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not,
And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And if you belong to Christ it says,
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 4:29, Romans 8:9)
There is also Abraham's seed after the flesh (born the ordinary way) by Hagar (a covenant) which gendreth bondage, not the son by promise, but according to the flesh
As shown here
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? (Jesus acknowledged they are Abraham's seed in John 8:37) which is according to the flesh.
They were looking at being in bondage as to being in bondage to any man (rather than to sin)
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
As Paul says,
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh...
Gal 4:23 the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Again, how they were perceiving Jesus speaking of bondage (being Abraham's seed after the flesh)
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Christ is Abraham's seed (the only begotten/ son of promise/singular) and these also be Abraham's seed (according to the flesh/many) Jesus acknowledges
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
As Christ is Abraham's seed (to whom the promises are made)
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (John 15:20)
As Jesus said, If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you
Again as Paul shows it
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
He further clarifies
Roman 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Those who have the Spirit of Christ are counted the children of promise
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Romans 8:9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Just roll it around they will show the pattern and consistency between these verses.
You said,
Agreed. Except the Bible is not a dictionary defining words.
Me
Where did I use the bible to define the words, I gave the concordance number and compared between only begotten in the NT as well to only son in the OT in Isaac and both are adjectives that describe a uniquely born son, of which both were, not to mention the scriptural comparisons also.
You said
Why can’t there be an imperfect analogy between Isaac and Jesus?
Me,
Not sure what you are asking, we see things impefectly, so maybe we put them imperfectly?
You said,
Most analogies break down at some point in the analysis. For instance, who is Ismael’s counterpart to Jesus?
Me
You mean most of the LORD's similitudes he spake by using the prophets or man's?
You
For instance, who is Ismael’s counterpart to Jesus?
Me
If Isaac represents Jesus Christ in a similitude in Abraham, he would be the one seed, the other would include all other outside of him as the one but who were fathered by Abraham (children born after the flesh). According to the allegory which show the women as two covenants.
The definition shows both.
G3439 Monogenes means "only begotten" and "only"
The definition states
Monogenes (adjective)
- single of its kind, only
- used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
- used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
An example of this is in the NT
G3439 Monogenes used as "only" here in Luke 7:12
Luke 7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only G3439 son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
G3439 Monogenes used as "only begotten" here in John 1:14
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten G3439 of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And again here
G3439 Monogenes used as "only begotten" here in Hebrews 11:17
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten G3439 son,
The above taken from its equivilent H3173 Yachiyd
H3173 Yachiyd used as "only"here in Genesis 22:2
Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only H3173 son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
H3173 Yachiyd (adjective) shows "only" and "only begotten" here as well
The definition states
Yachiyd (adjective)
- only, only one, solitary, one
- only, unique, one
- solitary
- (TWOT) only begotten son
substantive
- one
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
So, one after the flesh and one after the Spirit
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Being his only begotten given one is after the flesh and one after the Spirit and the children of the flesh are not counted as seed would make just as much sense here also.
Don't be quickly confused by misunderstanding Gal 4:23, 29....born after the flesh really means essentially one who was born of a human father, and still in bondage to a sin nature. The one after the spirit was born of God, the Father., and free from a human sin nature, nonetheless still human, with a human nature.
Well then I must have misunderstood your train of thought somewhere along the line. I need to pay more attention...apology then of course offered.
No problem at all, I think its sometimes hard to follow people when making comparisons
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@Verily @Wrangler @APAK
"because you did not withhold your son, your only son, from me.” Gen 22:12.
We are in the realms of Covenant context so in the same way, Yahweh did not withhold His only begotten Son, who provided the foundation for the salvation of Abraham and his descendants (John 1:14). Notice again the repetition of the word "son," highlighting the significance of the offering made. Although Isaac was not literally sacrificed, he was figuratively offered, as Paul writes, "by faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac" (Heb. 11:17).
Your arguments are both right!
Just you are coming at it from different angels....
In the context of the promise made, Isaac is the only son.
In the context of the natural descendants of Ishmael and the care God showed to them, Ishmael is a displaced firstborn (a natural son)!
Genesis 21:13 "And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring."
There is such a thing as a "brotherly covenant" (Amos 1:9), established by natural affinity of a common parentage.
But the selfish, sullen Cain (displaced firstborn!) refused to acknowledge this and murdered his brother, thus being the first to commit the awful crime of fratricide. He manifested characteristics that were reproduced later by the Edomites, who symbolised the flesh in political control (Obad. 12).
Hope that helps!
F2F
"because you did not withhold your son, your only son, from me.” Gen 22:12.
We are in the realms of Covenant context so in the same way, Yahweh did not withhold His only begotten Son, who provided the foundation for the salvation of Abraham and his descendants (John 1:14). Notice again the repetition of the word "son," highlighting the significance of the offering made. Although Isaac was not literally sacrificed, he was figuratively offered, as Paul writes, "by faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac" (Heb. 11:17).
Your arguments are both right!
Just you are coming at it from different angels....
In the context of the promise made, Isaac is the only son.
In the context of the natural descendants of Ishmael and the care God showed to them, Ishmael is a displaced firstborn (a natural son)!
Genesis 21:13 "And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring."
There is such a thing as a "brotherly covenant" (Amos 1:9), established by natural affinity of a common parentage.
But the selfish, sullen Cain (displaced firstborn!) refused to acknowledge this and murdered his brother, thus being the first to commit the awful crime of fratricide. He manifested characteristics that were reproduced later by the Edomites, who symbolised the flesh in political control (Obad. 12).
Hope that helps!
F2F
I underlined "A NATION" as far Ishmeal goes, bondwomans son would be after a covenant
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
In Isaac thy seed shall be called, even as in Christ Jesus we are also called, Abraham is a father of many nations
Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of MANY NATIONS have I made thee.
Gal 3:18 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall ALL NATIONS be blessed.
So yeah, its covenantly as shown in the comparisons between them
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The Old Mosaic Covenant verses the new Abrahamic Covenant.
Gal 4:24—This is allegorically speaking: for these women are two covenants, one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
This Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem (natural), for she is in slavery with her children.
Two | Hagar | Sarah |
Women | Bondslave | Free |
Mountains | Sinai | Zion |
Covenants | Mosaic | Abrahamic |
Cities | Jerusalem then | Jerusalem future |
Sons | Born of flesh | Born of spirit |
"Born in Zion" signifies that sonship in Christ is a result of divine intervention, not human will.
Galatians 4:26 says, "But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." As it is written: "Rejoice, O barren one, who does not bear! Break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the desolate woman has more children than she who has a husband" (Isaiah 54:1).
We, are children of promise, just as Isaac was. Isaac’s birth was a direct act of God's intervention; there are no naturally born sons of the Abrahamic covenant. All are born again from above, through the Word, by Faith.
Born according to the flesh, or born according to the spirit!
Galatians 4:29 states, "Just as Isaac was born according to the Spirit, so also was the one born according to the flesh persecuting the one born according to the Spirit. So it is now." The Scripture says, "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" (Genesis 21:10).
We are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Ishmael was born according to the flesh to a slave woman and persecuted the true heir. By persecuting the true believers, the Judaizers proved they were of the flesh, not of the Spirit.
But their story is far from over!
(note: those like Johann who reject Christ raised up out of sin's flesh fail to understand how God righteously condemned sin in the flesh and made all the promise YES in Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20
F2F
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