Jesus was tempted
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Sorry @MatthewG, I have to respond to this. (Maybe just ignore it) …
Totally wrong. Re-read Deut 18:15-18. The man chosen among the people of Israel is affirmed to be Jesus at John 1:45.
God chose this man to put his words in his mouth. This is the meaning of the word (of God) was made flesh. The prophecy of Deut 18:15-18 was fulfilled in the man Jesus. This is why the prologue does NOT say God was incarnate.
And it is also why John’s purpose of writing his Gospel (20:31) contradicts your claim. John said he wrote the Gospel for X. You can’t legitimately use it to prove -X.
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NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us
NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
This is why the OP premise is flawed in its effort.
Jesus led by example. The lord of this world tempts the natural man and woman into sin.
The sacrificial system prior to Jesus covered sins. There were rules to obtaining the sacrificial animal.
Jesus being tempted like any other human and not succumbing to those temptations was His example to show Satan power cannot overcome the power of God.
Jesus could not sin and then later be the perfect unblemished,sinless, lamb sacrificed for the sins of those whom God calls.
Which is why we know through those temptations from Satan that Jesus was not born vulnerable to temptations to sin.
A thread that addresses Jesus being tempted falls flat when the divine identity of Jesus is considered off topic.
Even the false doctrines of those denominations that insist Jesus was a highly favored fully human man have no merit. Because Jesus did not succumb to Satan's temptations as is possible for us.
Lastly,if Jesus was just a man highly favored man it would mean he was born with a sin nature like all humans.
When his mother was highly favored by God so to bear Jesus to life, she did so as a virgin.
Jesus lives because God begat upon her a Son.
It would be impossible for a sin nature to be propitiation for our sins when Jesus would,as a mere man though highly favored by God, need Saving himself due to his own sin nature.
1 John 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
What could be afoot is an effort to deny the mission of Jesus entirely. Therein implying Salvation is a myth.
Jesus led by example. The lord of this world tempts the natural man and woman into sin.
The sacrificial system prior to Jesus covered sins. There were rules to obtaining the sacrificial animal.
Jesus being tempted like any other human and not succumbing to those temptations was His example to show Satan power cannot overcome the power of God.
Jesus could not sin and then later be the perfect unblemished,sinless, lamb sacrificed for the sins of those whom God calls.
Which is why we know through those temptations from Satan that Jesus was not born vulnerable to temptations to sin.
A thread that addresses Jesus being tempted falls flat when the divine identity of Jesus is considered off topic.
Even the false doctrines of those denominations that insist Jesus was a highly favored fully human man have no merit. Because Jesus did not succumb to Satan's temptations as is possible for us.
Lastly,if Jesus was just a man highly favored man it would mean he was born with a sin nature like all humans.
When his mother was highly favored by God so to bear Jesus to life, she did so as a virgin.
Jesus lives because God begat upon her a Son.
It would be impossible for a sin nature to be propitiation for our sins when Jesus would,as a mere man though highly favored by God, need Saving himself due to his own sin nature.
1 John 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
What could be afoot is an effort to deny the mission of Jesus entirely. Therein implying Salvation is a myth.
Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. Prophesy spoke of Jesus as a lamb without blemish who takes the sins of the world to the cross and ended the curse of sin and death for those who believe on him.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
My apologies too Matthew for going off topic…..so to go back to the topic….Jesus had to become human to give his life in exchange for what Adam took away from all his children. This was the “price of redemption” that the Bible speaks of. (1 Cor 7:23; 1 Pet 1:18-19) It was an exact exchange…sinless human life was lost and a sinless human life paid the price to regain what Adam lost.
Heb 4:15….
”For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin.”
So Jesus was”tested in all respects like ourselves”….who else would God allow to test him? He demonstrated with Job that he allows the faithful to prove themselves just so he has an answer to give back to ‘the one who taunts him’. (Prov 27:11)
Heb 2:18…
”Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test”.
What temptations did the devil give Jesus? Three that we know about that took place just after his baptism and a sojourn of 40 days in the wilderness to prepare him for his role as Messiah.….these are recorded by Matthew and Luke.
The first was to tempt him to use the Holy Spirit to serve himself, at a time when he was physically very hungry after 40 days of fasting….yet neither Jesus nor has apostles ever used the gifts of the spirit on themselves or on each other…..they were for the benefit of unbelievers to bring them to Christ, not for personal benefit.
The second temptation was to procure world rulership for himself, there and then, not having to suffer a painful death but enjoying his kingship without the personal sacrifice….was that a temptation? Jesus knew where the world was going and wanted no part of putting up with those who despised God and wanted to worship false deities. This is the world he came to save, but not satan’s way.
What about the third one? The devil told him to hurl himself off the battlement of the Temple and angels would catch him in spectacular fashion….did Jesus want that kind of showy display? Did he want people to glorify him and talk about that kind of miracle….or was all he did for the glory of his God and Father?
Do we understand why Jesus had to be 100% human in order to pay the ransom that was set and to experience life as one of the human race?
God becoming human would have been an overpayment of monumental proportions…like buying 100 trillion cans of bug spray to kill one mosquito. All Jesus needed to be was sinless…he didn’t have to be God to pay the price of redemption. The fact that he had no sin didn’t mean that he could not “sympathize with our weaknesses” because his sinful human disciples were all around him and he had to patiently endure their weaknesses without condemning them too harshly. Those very disciples would also inherit the Kingdom as active members of its administration. So all who will bring redeemed humanity back into reconciliation with God during the 1000 years of Christ’s reign, will all have endured the trials of this life, and will be sympathetic kings and priests (Rev 20:6) for those who come back in the resurrection. (John 5:28-29)
The story is not more complicated than that….
Heb 4:15….
”For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin.”
So Jesus was”tested in all respects like ourselves”….who else would God allow to test him? He demonstrated with Job that he allows the faithful to prove themselves just so he has an answer to give back to ‘the one who taunts him’. (Prov 27:11)
Heb 2:18…
”Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test”.
What temptations did the devil give Jesus? Three that we know about that took place just after his baptism and a sojourn of 40 days in the wilderness to prepare him for his role as Messiah.….these are recorded by Matthew and Luke.
The first was to tempt him to use the Holy Spirit to serve himself, at a time when he was physically very hungry after 40 days of fasting….yet neither Jesus nor has apostles ever used the gifts of the spirit on themselves or on each other…..they were for the benefit of unbelievers to bring them to Christ, not for personal benefit.
The second temptation was to procure world rulership for himself, there and then, not having to suffer a painful death but enjoying his kingship without the personal sacrifice….was that a temptation? Jesus knew where the world was going and wanted no part of putting up with those who despised God and wanted to worship false deities. This is the world he came to save, but not satan’s way.
What about the third one? The devil told him to hurl himself off the battlement of the Temple and angels would catch him in spectacular fashion….did Jesus want that kind of showy display? Did he want people to glorify him and talk about that kind of miracle….or was all he did for the glory of his God and Father?
Do we understand why Jesus had to be 100% human in order to pay the ransom that was set and to experience life as one of the human race?
God becoming human would have been an overpayment of monumental proportions…like buying 100 trillion cans of bug spray to kill one mosquito. All Jesus needed to be was sinless…he didn’t have to be God to pay the price of redemption. The fact that he had no sin didn’t mean that he could not “sympathize with our weaknesses” because his sinful human disciples were all around him and he had to patiently endure their weaknesses without condemning them too harshly. Those very disciples would also inherit the Kingdom as active members of its administration. So all who will bring redeemed humanity back into reconciliation with God during the 1000 years of Christ’s reign, will all have endured the trials of this life, and will be sympathetic kings and priests (Rev 20:6) for those who come back in the resurrection. (John 5:28-29)
The story is not more complicated than that….
Yes,I know.
All that exists is both of and from God.
John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Only to trinitarians…..it is possible to be a Christian without the trinity. In fact, neither Jesus himself nor his apostles thought Jesus was God Almighty. (1 Cor 8:5-6)
Jesus was a free willed 100% human being…the exact equivalent of Adam, or he could not have offered his life in exchange as a ransom. The redemption price was set and Jesus had to remain faithful despite the temptations to deviate from his chosen path. Could he have succumbed to those temptations?
As a free willed human, yes he could, but he chose not to.….proving that all free willed humans have a choice to sin….and can choose not to.….those without a sin nature, doubly so.
This also proves that all three rebels chose, of their own free will, to sin….bringing about the need for a redeemer. Without sin, Jesus’ redemption is unnecessary.
Was Jesus just a man? The scriptures answer NO! He was the only human other than Adam to be created without a sinful nature. Adam had the option not to sin but chose to because the devil had divided his loyalties….he chose to sin with his wife rather than to side with his God and lose her. What would have happened if he had refused to eat the fruit? It was his choice that landed us in trouble, not hers. (Rom 5:12)
I am presuming that you are Catholic with mention of Mary here….the Bible says so little about her, but the Messiah’s birth to a virgin was prophesied, so if it hadn’t been Mary, whose circumstances were favorably unique, God would have chosen another wonderful woman to bear his son and raise him as a devout worshipper of his God. Mary is only ever said to be the mother of Jesus and his siblings….never as “the mother of God”.
Exactly, which is why Jesus was careful never to deviate from the path set for him. The future of the entire human race was resting upon his shoulders…and he didn’t let us down.
No one is denying Jesus’ mission in any way…..they are merely denying something that humans said about his origins, but it isn’t something Jesus ever said of himself. Salvation isn’t the myth….the trinity is, but it is so ancient that no one wants to confront its origins…..and the truth about what it means for believers to accept something that Jesus never taught.
Read that carefully…..”All things were made through him”…..not by him. If you do something “through” an agent, they are acting on your behalf. Jesus was the agent of creation…the ”firstborn of ALL creation”
He is the “us“ and “our” in Gen 1:26.
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist”. (Col 1:15-17)
The son is the first and only direct creation of his Father (Rev 3:14)….all other things were created “through” him. Never is Jesus called a Creator.
NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
Jesus had thoughts and a will of his own. Did you know that?
Many people thinks it’s taboo to think about the natural state of Yeshua.
He could have totally been tempted to hurt a child and fling him to ground as they ran past him laughing. As they stepped on his big toe. But he probably just said Damn! And let it go.
Many people thinks it’s taboo to think about the natural state of Yeshua.
He could have totally been tempted to hurt a child and fling him to ground as they ran past him laughing. As they stepped on his big toe. But he probably just said Damn! And let it go.
I don’t care that much about these arguments anymore. People will spend their whole life on them. And sometimes I don’t think that’s good. Just living by faith and trusting Yeshua and looking to Yahavah who raised his son up by his Holy Spirit is good enough, seeking God he will reward you.
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Many people may not realize that Jesus had his own will. This would allow him his very own thoughts. Which is interesting in itself.
If Jesus had his own will, he probably enjoyed spending time with his friends, and the people he loved while in his day and age. He probably had memories just like we did, thinking of things which happened previously perhaps the goodness of people being with him, who encouraged him, ate with him, partied a little bit, and that is something to think about. Perhaps this is what he knew he was gonna miss his friends, and rather than his own will prevailing he desires his Fathers will to while in prayer to him.
I don’t care much about these arguments anymore. It’s people’s heart Yahavah wants. And doesn’t mean they are gonna be correct about every single thing.
Several passages in the New Testament demonstrate Jesus' ability to perceive the thoughts and intentions of others, affirming His divine nature as the God-Man.
1. Matthew 9:4
"And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, 'Why do you think evil in your hearts?'"
Context: This occurs when Jesus heals the paralytic and forgives his sins. The scribes internally accuse Him of blasphemy, but Jesus reveals His divine ability to know their inner thoughts.
2. Luke 5:22
"But Jesus, aware of their reasoning, answered and said to them, 'Why are you reasoning in your hearts?'"
Context: Similar to Matthew 9:4, Jesus discerns the reasoning of the Pharisees when He forgives sins, affirming His divine authority.
3. Luke 6:8
"But He knew their thoughts, and He said to the man with the withered hand, 'Get up and stand here.' And he got up and stood."
Context: On the Sabbath, Jesus anticipates the Pharisees’ critical intentions as they watch to see if He will heal, displaying omniscience.
4. John 2:24-25
"But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew all men, and because He did not need anyone to testify about man, for He Himself knew what was in man."
Context: After performing miracles, many believe in Him, but Jesus demonstrates divine knowledge of the human heart, showing His ability to perceive the inner nature of all people.
5. John 4:16-19
"Jesus said to her, 'Go, call your husband and come here.' The woman answered and said, 'I have no husband.' Jesus said to her, 'You have correctly said, "I have no husband"; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.'"
Context: Jesus’ conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well reveals His knowledge of her personal history, leading her to recognize Him as a prophet and, ultimately, the Messiah.
6. Matthew 12:25
"And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, 'Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.'"
Context: When the Pharisees accuse Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, He perceives their thoughts and responds with divine wisdom.
7. Mark 2:8
"Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, 'Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?'"
Context: During another instance of healing, Jesus discerns the inward reasoning of the scribes, affirming His omniscience.
Theological Implication
Jesus’ ability to know the thoughts and intentions of humans supports His divine identity. Omniscience is an attribute of God alone, as seen in passages like 1 Samuel 16:7 ("The Lord looks on the heart") and Psalm 139:2 ("You discern my thoughts from afar"). By demonstrating this divine knowledge, Jesus reveals His unique nature as fully God and fully man, the incarnate "God-Man."
Fully Man, fully God and where you are going wrong--
Colossians 1:19
Greek Text (Textus Receptus):
Ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι.
("For it pleased [the Father] that in Him all the fullness should dwell.")
Syntax Analysis:
πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα (all the fullness):
πᾶν (all) and τὸ πλήρωμα (the fullness) emphasize completeness, indicating that the entire divine essence, not a portion, resides in Jesus.
The use of the article τὸ highlights this as the specific fullness of God.
κατοικῆσαι (to dwell):
This verb is an aorist infinitive, indicating a definitive and intentional action. The use of κατοικέω (to dwell) signifies permanent residence rather than a temporary or partial indwelling.
ἐν αὐτῷ (in Him):
The prepositional phrase ἐν (in) with the dative αὐτῷ (Him) locates the fullness of God within Jesus, not apart from Him.
2. Colossians 2:9
Greek Text (Textus Receptus):
Ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς.
("For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.")
Syntax Analysis:
κατοικεῖ (dwells):
The verb κατοικεῖ is in the present indicative active, showing continuous action. The fullness of the Godhead is permanently and actively dwelling in Jesus.
πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος (all the fullness of the Godhead):
Again, πᾶν emphasizes totality, and τῆς θεότητος (of the Godhead) specifies the divine essence.
The genitive construction indicates that this fullness is intrinsic to Jesus.
σωματικῶς (bodily):
This adverb clarifies that the fullness of God dwells in Jesus in a physical, incarnate form. The syntax leaves no room for a partial or symbolic indwelling.
Key Observations:
Permanent Indwelling:
The use of κατοικέω in the aorist infinitive (Colossians 1:19) and the present indicative (Colossians 2:9) signifies a permanent and complete dwelling of the fullness of God in Jesus.
Totality of the Divine Essence:
The repeated use of πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα stresses the totality of the divine nature within Christ, affirming His deity.
No Limitation:
The syntax does not permit any interpretation that limits or diminishes the divine presence in Jesus. The fullness is permanent, complete, and bodily expressed in Him.
The syntax of Colossians 1:19 and 2:9 confirms that the fullness of God permanently dwelt in Jesus in His incarnate form. This aligns with the understanding of Christ as fully God and fully man, possessing the complete divine essence while being bodily present among humanity.
Thanks.
J.
Still, Jesus was tempted.
I don't care about the trinity arguments people have to present. Jesus was still born of a woman and in very real flesh.
Don't you think it hurt when he was smacked on the face, placed a crown of thorns around his head, what about being spit on, and beat up by the people when he was given over to be flogged and be beaten with a led tipped whip.
Perhaps to some he didn't feel anything... he wasn't tempted to do anything... he didn't think about all those whom loved him, and his love for his Father, or that He didn't think about those around him that didn't love him which he loved as well.
Idk, what people think or what they may come up with when these things are presented.
I don't care about the trinity arguments people have to present. Jesus was still born of a woman and in very real flesh.
Don't you think it hurt when he was smacked on the face, placed a crown of thorns around his head, what about being spit on, and beat up by the people when he was given over to be flogged and be beaten with a led tipped whip.
Perhaps to some he didn't feel anything... he wasn't tempted to do anything... he didn't think about all those whom loved him, and his love for his Father, or that He didn't think about those around him that didn't love him which he loved as well.
Idk, what people think or what they may come up with when these things are presented.
I think that is why perhaps people respond like that do sometimes... they don't think for themselves concerning the topic at hand. They just desire to present some type of argument rather than addressing the topic itself... Yeah I believe the fullness of Yahavah/God dwelt in the Lord Jesus... but that didn't stop Jesus from being in flesh, having a soul....
A mind/will/emotions... He cried, he had thoughts, he had emotions... he wasn't some type of Robot...
A mind/will/emotions... He cried, he had thoughts, he had emotions... he wasn't some type of Robot...
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