The slander against the faithful apostle Paul

[Eternally Grateful]

Remember this about scripture:


[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. John 5:39-40 RSV

This has nothing to do with Paul being the writer by inspiration of God.

You either believe it or you don;t

that scripture was inspired by God written By John

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then you could ignore the entire Bible since none of it was written for us.

lol.. What is your problem?

CONTEXT

does this mean anything to you?

 

[amigo de christo]

This has nothing to do with Paul being the writer by inspiration of God.

You either believe it or you done

that scripture was inspired by God written By John

Spot on right . SOUND IT OUT . the problem they have is with the TRUTH ITSELF .
and thus always an excuse will be made for as to why THEY DONT HEED IT .
YOU well said what you said my friend . And i wanted to thank you and encourage you having wrote it .
As you well said ,
you either believe it or you dont . His problem. IS WITH THE TRUTH ITSELF and the GOD WHO INSPIRED it
through either paul , john , peter or etc . SO again thank ya for that simple but very lovely reminder .

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul was a very wise man. I've learned much from him. That doesn't make him perfect.

ya coping out friend . THE WORDS Left to us in said letters of them apostels , THEMS GOD INSPIRED .
Now if you got a problem with what is written , That IS ON YOU my friend . you can speak all the half truths ya want
but you wont be fooling me , only YASELF . many love to follow an image
and that image they so want to be GOD , but man it contradicts HIS inspired words , SO IT AINT HIM buddy .
Men love to decieve ourselves . oh humaniti loves it . BUT GOD KNOWS the hearts of all
There is no thought hid from him . Many gonna wail on the day of the LORD
and the image of jesus they thought they knew and loved , WONT be able to deliver them from the WRATH OF JESUS
who their jesus DENIED . oh bob , if you only knew my desire is good for you and desire only good for you .
But you are on a deadly dangerous road my friend . So let me help make it a bit easy for ya
OPEN the bible . You will find four gopsels , then acts , followed by romans , by first and then second corithians
followed by galations , epheisans , i think its phillipains then colossians , then fist and second thess
followed by first and second timothy , by titus , then by philemon and then hebrews
and james , and first and second peter , the then three letters of john and jude and then revelation .
THEN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND what ya READ IS TRUTH , INSPIRED BY GOD who used some men to get the job done .
NOW DONT TWIST and omit ANY OF IT . rather learn it , love it and embrace it .
GET BUSY NOW , there is lots of bible truth to learn and to love all over the bible , THAT GOD DID INSPIRE .

 

[Bob Estey]

This has nothing to do with Paul being the writer by inspiration of God.

You either believe it or you don;t

that scripture was inspired by God written By John

Paul was a great man. I'm just saying he wasn't perfect.

 

[Bob Estey]

lol.. What is your problem?

CONTEXT

does this mean anything to you?

You are picking and choosing.

 

[Bob Estey]

ya coping out friend . THE WORDS Left to us in said letters of them apostels , THEMS GOD INSPIRED .
Now if you got a problem with what is written , That IS ON YOU my friend . you can speak all the half truths ya want
but you wont be fooling me , only YASELF . many love to follow an image
and that image they so want to be GOD , but man it contradicts HIS inspired words , SO IT AINT HIM buddy .
Men love to decieve ourselves . oh humaniti loves it . BUT GOD KNOWS the hearts of all
There is no thought hid from him . Many gonna wail on the day of the LORD
and the image of jesus they thought they knew and loved , WONT be able to deliver them from the WRATH OF JESUS
who their jesus DENIED . oh bob , if you only knew my desire is good for you and desire only good for you .
But you are on a deadly dangerous road my friend . So let me help make it a bit easy for ya
OPEN the bible . You will find four gopsels , then acts , followed by romans , by first and then second corithians
followed by galations , epheisans , i think its phillipains then colossians , then fist and second thess
followed by first and second timothy , by titus , then by philemon and then hebrews
and james , and first and second peter , the then three letters of john and jude and then revelation .
THEN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND what ya READ IS TRUTH , INSPIRED BY GOD who used some men to get the job done .
NOW DONT TWIST and omit ANY OF IT . rather learn it , love it and embrace it .
GET BUSY NOW , there is lots of bible truth to learn and to love all over the bible , THAT GOD DID INSPIRE .

I don't think God told Paul to say that women can't speak when they are in a church.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Jesus and Paul are two different people. Jesus is divine. Paul is human.

OK, so WHY did Jesus only appoint men as His Apostles?
Those following the wisdom of men can never figure out why Jesus only picked men.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (Keep in mind the the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy - Revelation 19:10)

Sounds like some folk need to go ahead and throw the New Testament in the trash since they choose to not believe the Holy Spirit directed the biblical writers what to write

If you do not believe everything paul said, you have put the word of God in question

Exactly... which is exactly what satan is working to get people to do...

If God commanded it then, why wouldn't he command it now?

Men being the only ones qualified for ministry to the Body of Christ... is still God's command today since He changes not and He said what He meant, and He meant what He said.

Those following the religious ideas of men wouldn't know since they have rejected what God says in favor of what man says being deceived by the devil who is continually seeking to cause people to not believe what God has said... just like he did in the garden. This will never change till 'ol slewfoot is locked up!

it wasn't God who said women can't speak when they are in a church.

So you acknowledge your belief then that Paul was a false teacher and a heretic as some today are claiming?

One cannot cherry pick from Paul's writings and say somethings he wrote were of God and some were not... either Paul was a servant of the Lord or a servant of satan... which is it???

lol.. the command was not given to the church. it was given to that local church.

And this ladies and gentlemen is how the devil deceived people in to throwing portions of scripture out that they don't agree with!

1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

It's spoken by PERMISSION of the Lord... so it's still God's Word.

If it was not God's Word, then the Lord would not have given him PERMISSION

The key here is... the Lord granted PERMISSION

Then you could ignore the entire Bible since none of it was written for us.

The devil loves to hear this sort of thing... it's music to his adversarial ears!

 

[MatthewG]

I don't think God told Paul to say that women can't speak when they are in a church.

While I do not personally attend a church. It's interesting that Paul did write such a thing. Does it apply to us today? I don't think so. If a woman desires to speak about the things of Yahavah. It's okay they do so. I believe to have a church bride ready, people would need to do everything within the context of the bible that has been written, truth be told. They do not. I believe the bride of Christ is not given any honor for the things they suffered if you ask me.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It's interesting that Paul did write such a thing. Does it apply to us today?

Does ANY of God's Word apply to us today?

If any of it does, then what God said thru Paul about only men being qualified for ministry is also for us today.

It's no wonder there's so much false doctrine floating around... satan has tricked to many in to not accepting what God says... just like he did with Adam and Eve in the garden!

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think God told Paul to say that women can't speak when they are in a church.

Rather odd that peter even implies this .
And paul didnt just think it up .
Try reading , after writing what he was writing to the church about women
HE said IF ANY man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual
LET HIM KNOW these are the commandments of GOD . YOU saying paul was lying about that .
Sorry you pick and choose what you want to beleive . that is a problem too .

 

[Bob Estey]

OK, so WHY did Jesus only appoint men as His Apostles?
Those following the wisdom of men can never figure out why Jesus only picked men.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (Keep in mind the the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy - Revelation 19:10)

Sounds like some folk need to go ahead and throw the New Testament in the trash since they choose to not believe the Holy Spirit directed the biblical writers what to write





Exactly... which is exactly what satan is working to get people to do...






Men being the only ones qualified for ministry to the Body of Christ... is still God's command today since He changes not and He said what He meant, and He meant what He said.

Those following the religious ideas of men wouldn't know since they have rejected what God says in favor of what man says being deceived by the devil who is continually seeking to cause people to not believe what God has said... just like he did in the garden. This will never change till 'ol slewfoot is locked up!






So you acknowledge your belief then that Paul was a false teacher and a heretic as some today are claiming?

One cannot cherry pick from Paul's writings and say somethings he wrote were of God and some were not... either Paul was a servant of the Lord or a servant of satan... which is it???







And this ladies and gentlemen is how the devil deceived people in to throwing portions of scripture out that they don't agree with!






It's spoken by PERMISSION of the Lord... so it's still God's Word.

If it was not God's Word, then the Lord would not have given him PERMISSION

The key here is... the Lord granted PERMISSION







The devil loves to hear this sort of thing... it's music to his adversarial ears!
View attachment 56228

Jesus appointed apostles to go out and spread the word. He knew they weren't perfect.

 

[Bob Estey]

While I do not personally attend a church. It's interesting that Paul did write such a thing. Does it apply to us today? I don't think so. If a woman desires to speak about the things of Yahavah. It's okay they do so. I believe to have a church bride ready, people would need to do everything within the context of the bible that has been written, truth be told. They do not. I believe the bride of Christ is not given any honor for the things they suffered if you ask me.

I don't think it applied to then either. I think Paul was wrong about this.

 

[Bob Estey]

Rather odd that peter even implies this .
And paul didnt just think it up .
Try reading , after writing what he was writing to the church about women
HE said IF ANY man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual
LET HIM KNOW these are the commandments of GOD . YOU saying paul was lying about that .
Sorry you pick and choose what you want to beleive . that is a problem too .

Peter believed the same thing. I think they were both wrong.

 

[Soyeong]

Have you noticed that the virulent attack on Paul has become a trend on the biblical analysis networks?

From my point of view, it is a maneuver by the enemies of the Scriptures that seems to be affecting many Christians. Some anti-Christians masquerading as biblical scholars are dedicating themselves to spreading on the web the idea that Paul is a false teacher. Let's talk about that here, to help sincere believers not be deceived.

Firstly, we must accept that Paul was completely connected to the official Christian congregation of the first century, including the elders and apostles in Jerusalem, as we can clearly see in the beginnings of his missionary calling by Christ, which we read about in the book of Acts of the Apostles, written by Luke. An illustrative, clear, and compelling example of this is Peter's view of Paul's wisdom, and his letters:

2 Pet. 3:15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. (...)

PS: Although Paul did not belong to the group of the twelve main apostles of Jesus, Scripture declares him an "apostle" for his missionary work.

In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Torah, so it is people who interpret him in a way that turns him against obeying it that make him out to be a false teacher. In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, that those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words to their own destruction, and to be careful not to be carried away by the error of lawless men, so we can be confident that when Paul is correctly understood that he never spoke against obeying the Torah.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't think it applied to then either. I think Paul was wrong about this.

Nothing wrong with thinking. There is probably a historical context to why though, just in general. They could simply have been getting riled up in there or something. I don’t think it matters anymore, nor is applied to anyone today. But I don’t know, people think about this one all the time (in general) especially at some churches. Like those who play with snakes, that are venomous and expect not to get bit and die because of it.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Jesus appointed apostles to go out and spread the word. He knew they weren't perfect.

So you admit that you believe God did not lead biblical writers to write what they wrote?

Those engaging in the view point are deceived and will be getting more and more deceived as they go...

I think Paul was wrong about this.

So, you have now rejected ALL of Paul's writings?

Peter believed the same thing. I think they were both wrong.

So, you have now rejected ALL of Peter's writings?

Nothing wrong with thinking.

There certainly is when one is thinking the thoughts the devil is telling
them to think.... such as God's Word is not really God's Word.

I don’t think it matters anymore, nor is applied to anyone

What other portions of scripture did God decide is not for us today?

Murdering innocent little babies (abortion), or teaching children to be perverts (LGBBQ)

Yeah, let us know when the Lord decided He did not mean what He said

Those that cannot see and understand this is all a trick of the devil... are being blinded and that ends badly for all eternity

 

[Dan Clarkston]

In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Torah..... when Paul is correctly understood that he never spoke against obeying the Torah.

Did you not understand that the old testament has been done away with and a New Testament has been established by Jesus Christ Himself???

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

Those following the old covenant have returned to the Law of Moses and have fallen from grace

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Soyeong]

Did you not understand that the old testament has been done away with and a New Testament has been established by Jesus Christ Himself???

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

A new covenant does not nullify the promises of a covenant that has already been ratified, so God's covenants are cumulative. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if it cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The fault that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with His law, but with the people for not continuing in their covenant (Hebrews 8:7-9), so the solution to the problem was not for God to do away with His Torah, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Torah (Romans 8:3-4), God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33).

The New Covenant is still made with the same God with the same eternal character traits and therefore the same eternal instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits. For example, the way to be a doer of God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of His instructions for how to be a doer of His righteousness are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). Holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth are all the same, so there is not a different way to be a doer of them under the New Covenant.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example and I don't see a good reason to think that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to anything that Christ taught.

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of God with the Law of Christ and the Torah is the Law of God. The Torah is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so James 1:25 wasn't saying anything about the Torah that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

Those following the old covenant have returned to the Law of Moses and have fallen from grace

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I have not suggested that we should follow the Mosaic Covenant, but rather I have been speaking about the way to live under the New Covenant. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Torah, and even Christ because his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith and it would again be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against in Galatians. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instruction his children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Torah, so if you agree with me that Paul was a servant of God, then you should be opposed to you interpreting him in a way that makes him out to be a false prophet.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

A new covenant does not nullify the promises of a covenant that has already been ratified

That's not what God's Word says

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah

WHERE did Jesus teach that when one sins they have to go make an animal sacrifice to cover their sin???

If you are going to follow the "torah" then you must reject the New Covenant and liver under the law of Moses rather than the Law of Christ which is what the New Testament teaches
Jesus specifically said the law and the prophets stopped at John the Baptist's ministry...

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Reckon Jesus got it wrong and He forgot to teach we are required to follow the Low of Moses to be saved?

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of God with the Law of Christ and the Torah is the Law of God.

Those subscribing to this nonsense are confused.... you still doing animal sacrifices for salvation?
That's what the torah demands.

the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith and it would again be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against in Galatians.

Actually the Galatians turned away from Jesus and went back to the law of Moses... and that caused them to fall from grace meaning they were no longer saved and had become corrupt.

if you agree with me that Paul was a servant of God, then you should be opposed to you interpreting him in a way that makes him out to be a false prophet.

If one is to follow the toah, they MUST declare Paul to be a false teacher and ignore him and teach others to ignore him too.