Revelation 13:17-18 (666)

[Douggg]

I don't understand why you would continue to claim any more than the kingdoms that God brought out of the sea..... You simply WANT to despite the many verses in Daniel that tells you there are only 4....

The beasts coming out of the sea in Daniel 7:3 and Revelation 13:1 - refers to kingdoms coming out of the nations.

The beast coming our of the earth in Revelation 13:11 - refers to coming out of Israel. But the beast in Revelation 13:11 is not a kingdom, instead a person - later identified in Revelation as the false prophet.

The papacy/pope scenario does not work - because the mortally wounded but head head in Revelation 13:4 will be worshiped - and none of the popes are worshiped.

 

[ewq1938]

The way to determine who the little horn of Daniel 7-8 is in Revelation is to find his activities in Revelation.

Daniel 7: 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Not the ten horned beast speaking.

In Revelation 13, the mortally wounded but healed head does those things. Since the little horn person is the mortally and healed head king of Revelation. Mountains are not mortally wounded, but healed. And mountains don't' speak, but people do.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

This is the ten horned beast speaking.

Again, there is no match but only some similar things that happen which is predicable for an enemy of God to do. It is not a unique thing, as shown since not the same entity does that evil speaking.

 

[Timtofly]

How many kingdoms / beasts did God bring out of the sea in Daniel 2?

Do you think He meant to establish the “structure” for whatever is going to take place in His plan of salvation?

Daniel saw 5 empires "rise out of the sea", as you put it. Daniel did not see the 6th head nor 7th head as John described in Revelation 3 different times.

The 5 nations of Daniel 2 lasted until the Reformation. That is when the church (the body of Christ), not the RCC, destroyed the statue of Daniel 2. 5 had fallen by the 15th century. In the last 500+ years, we have been in the 6th head; the one with the deadly wound.

 

[Timtofly]

2:40, 7:3, 7:7, 7:17, 7:19, 7:23… God only called out 4 kingdoms / beasts from the sea - Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece, and Roman.

What is the head wound and who received it? Who is the one to help heal it? Is that the earth beast?

You must need more kingdoms or heads to meet your interpretations.

So, tell me, what is the most important interpretation you believe that requires a 5th or 6th or more kingdom or kings or heads?

You can add as man as you like but God called out 4 and only 4. If you add to His Word, your interpretations will suffer.

The two feet and ten toes is the time from the 5th to the 15th century. Even you state there was a different Rome than your pagan Rome. Your second Rome is the 5th kingdom, not a continuation of pagan Rome. The sea beast has 7 heads, not 4. The dragon has 7 heads, not 4. The scarlet colored beast has 7 heads, not 4. Daniel 2 has 5 parts, not 4.

If God's Word says 7, why do you insist on 4?

You are subtracting from God's Word. I have added nothing.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life."

I understand that Daniel described though did not name Rome. Daniel did not explicitly explain the Cross, but the Cross was still an event in history. Daniel did not spell out in detail the next 3500 years. He only covered bits and pieces.

 

[CTK]

The two feet and ten toes is the time from the 5th to the 15th century. Even you state there was a different Rome than your pagan Rome. Your second Rome is the 5th kingdom, not a continuation of pagan Rome. The sea beast has 7 heads, not 4. The dragon has 7 heads, not 4. The scarlet colored beast has 7 heads, not 4. Daniel 2 has 5 parts, not 4.

If God's Word says 7, why do you insist on 4?

You are subtracting from God's Word. I have added nothing.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life."

I understand that Daniel described though did not name Rome. Daniel did not explicitly explain the Cross, but the Cross was still an event in history. Daniel did not spell out in detail the next 3500 years. He only covered bits and pieces.

Thanks for your thoughts. I believe we can move on … everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Douggg]

This is the ten horned beast speaking.

Again, there is no match but only some similar things that happen which is predicable for an enemy of God to do. It is not a unique thing, as shown since not the same entity does that evil speaking.

The little horn's action to persecute the saints in Daniel 7 matches the mortally wounded but healed head of Revelation 13

The little horn's action to make war on Jesus in Daniel 8:25 matches the action of the beast in Revelation 16:13-16 call to make war on Jesus.

The little horn's activity period is "time of the end" Daniel 8:11-17.

The little horn will emerge soon out of the EU.

Look up. Our redemption draws near.

 

[Timtofly]

The little horn person of Daniel 7-8 us not any of the ten horns on the beast out of the sea, but one of the seven heads.

The little horn person already existed in history. It is not some future person, or John would have mentioned that person in Revelation.

You have argued that Satan cannot be a head as that is one individual. Now you claim an individual is one of the heads? The only individual or head left is Satan.

Daniel said Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold.

"This image's head was of fine gold... Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."

God set the precedent in this dream and the subsequent revelation. God made Nebuchadnezzar the head of gold. He was the first head of the dragon. He was the first head of the sea beast coming out of humanity. Read it again:

"Wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all."

That is the definition of the sea beast coming out of the sea.

Now who was the King in conjunction with the Medes and Persians declared in Daniel? Or the the horn of Greece? Or the horn of Rome, mentioned in Daniel 7?

Those kings have all lived and died. John said 5 are fallen, the 6th was dead, but lived after the Second Coming. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom declared at the 7th Trumpet:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,"

The 6th head was already dead and in the past, the second time, at the 7th Trumpet.

Only one head, and one kingdom left, the 8th kingdom. That is Satan's 42 months, after the 7th Trumpet had already sounded. There is no single individual called thee Antichrist. There is Satan as chief ruler, and a false prophet.

Satan is one of the 7 heads. Satan is the beast coming out of the pit/the earth. Satan is given power and authority by God, and by God alone, just like every earthly empire from Nebuchadnezzar until today.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't understand why you would continue to claim any more than the kingdoms that God brought out of the sea..... You simply WANT to despite the many verses in Daniel that tells you there are only 4....

There really is no reasson to continue this... A 5th kingdom made up of the 10 toes? A 6th kingdom that has a mortal wound - what 6th kingdom? Jesus is the 7th kingdom? Mystery Babylon is the 8th kingdom?

It seems that you are conflating Daniel with Revelation and attempting to match the symbols, kingdoms, kings, whatever.... It doesn't work that way! Study Daniel and the 4 kingdoms .... almost 95 percent of Daniel ends at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy - that is 3.5 years after the cross. Then, the rest of it - chapter 11 discusses the post cross period to when the little horn takes power and has establised papal Rome (after pagan Rome is slain -7:11). Chapter 12 is a brief narrative on the end times - no details but Daniel is not meant to discuss the end times - that belongs entirely to Revelation.

There is much in Daniel that moves forward into Revelation with the most important character being the little horn (harlot) and the sea beast (papal Rome). But just as God uses different symbols in Daniel 7 and 8 that represent the same 4 kingdoms established in chapter2, He uses different symbols in Revelation that those found in Daniel. Same characters, different symbols at the end times. But it is clear you are trying to identify the # of kingdoms in Daniel through the verses in Revelation- they are different....

In Daniel - there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms established by God out of the sea.
In Daniel - these 4 kingdoms have 7 heads - Babylon - 1, Medes-Persia -2, Greece - 4 for a total of 7. These are used in Revelation to reflect the secular powers or nations or peoples that had been made subordiate to the conquering 4th beast kingdom in Daniel of pagan Rome. But, pagan Rome would be slain and its body destroyed (7:11) and within 50 years, the Christian church, headed by the bishops would succeed pagan Rome (the bishop of Rome would win out over the other bishops of the major Christian centers at the time who were fighting for them to be the head of the church). But Rome would win out and that bishop of Rome would become known as the pope / papacy or the little horn. And he would sit atop the 4th kingdom beast of papal Rome - and it is this beast who must continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands.

But you can not take the number of heads or kings or whatever in Revelation to DETERMINE the number of kingdoms in Daniel. God has established the number of kingdoms in Daniel and He is very clear on that. But Revelation has its own symbolism to unpack and deal with....Unless you are willing to study Daniel on its own and accept what Daniel is telling us about the kings, the kingdoms, and most importantly, the timing of the events in Daniel (which everybody has thrown incorrrectrly into the far future to try and match the same in Revelation (which they don't), you will never be able to understand either book correctly.

Daniel was written for the Jews - not the people of the end times. (certainly it is relevant to all of us, but it was not written SPECIFICALLY to us - but the Jews who were returning from Babylon and the coming of the Messiah.

Conversely, look at the language in Revelation where it SPECIFICALLY tells us who is is written to ---Revelation 1:3 - and others... it is written to the 7 churches - it is to the people, both Jew and Greek of the 7 churches who come after the cross and live for / during the next 2000 years before His retun. Daniel is done, now God is speaking to those to obey His Word and the Testimony of Jesus before His return.....

Understand and lock down the symbols in Daniel and understand the timing of the prophecies and His messages in Daniel. Then, use THEM TO UNDERSTAND REVELATION... Daniel HELPS interpret Revelation but Revelation cannot help you interpret Daniel. You have to understand the foundation of things before you can begin building a second story on a house...

So then you come from a Preterist position that all of Daniel or 90% was completed 42 months after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

That is not what Revelation declares, nor can you prove your point from Daniel.

The 4th kingdom was the two legs, not the two legs and two feet.

The 4th kingdom was mentioned in Daniel. Are you attempting to disprove my point?

Did the beast out of the sea in Revelation 13 only have 4 heads, or 7 heads?

You are the one with issues declaring only 4 heads instead of 7.

Most of Daniel got us to the 15th century, not 3.5 years after the Cross in the first century. Jerusalem was not even destroyed 42 months after the Cross.

The papacy was defunct (according to prophetic Scripture) at the Reformation. Born again, redeemed people could read their Bible, and they started revivals that changed lives through the Holy Spirit throughout the entire earth. Not only did nations industrialize the earth, but the Gospel went out despite man's greed for power and money. You can concoct the papacy as some prophecy just as much as futurist with their AC, but you both are missing the point made in Daniel by concentrating on your pet enemies of the Gospel.

God's Word and prophecy is not exactly equivalent to building a house. Paul pointed out, that he could only see through a glass darkly. If you think they had Daniel figured out in the first century or even in the 15th century at the time of the Reformation, you have the wrong interpretation of both Daniel and Revelation, yourself. Daniel was not fulfilled in the first century. It was still ongoing until the Reformation and the end of the 5th kingdom in Daniel 2, which you seem to still see as Paul did, through a glass darkly. Do you think you have it all figured out? So be it. You will see clearly at the Second Coming, that there were 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2 and not just 4.

I do not have to really declare who each individual in history fulfilled what. I do think that the horn of the Greek Empire in Daniel 11 was Antiochus Epiphanes. You can justify why Daniel was given information about the 4th kingdom several chapters prior to the 3rd kingdom as if repeating knowledge we should have already understood. Daniel never understood his dreams until after he was dead. Seems that is how most, who think they understand Daniel, will figure things out. After they have passed from this life of death, into eternal life.

John was not inventing everything out of scratch. He did use themes from the OT. But Revelation clears up Daniel, not that it builds off of what Daniel saw. John saw things way more clearly in person when they happened, not at night while he was sleeping, like Daniel.

 

[CTK]

So then you come from a Preterist position that all of Daniel or 90% was completed 42 months after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

That is not what Revelation declares, nor can you prove your point from Daniel.

The 4th kingdom was the two legs, not the two legs and two feet.

The 4th kingdom was mentioned in Daniel. Are you attempting to disprove my point?

Did the beast out of the sea in Revelation 13 only have 4 heads, or 7 heads?

You are the one with issues declaring only 4 heads instead of 7.

Most of Daniel got us to the 15th century, not 3.5 years after the Cross in the first century. Jerusalem was not even destroyed 42 months after the Cross.

The papacy was defunct (according to prophetic Scripture) at the Reformation. Born again, redeemed people could read their Bible, and they started revivals that changed lives through the Holy Spirit throughout the entire earth. Not only did nations industrialize the earth, but the Gospel went out despite man's greed for power and money. You can concoct the papacy as some prophecy just as much as futurist with their AC, but you both are missing the point made in Daniel by concentrating on your pet enemies of the Gospel.

God's Word and prophecy is not exactly equivalent to building a house. Paul pointed out, that he could only see through a glass darkly. If you think they had Daniel figured out in the first century or even in the 15th century at the time of the Reformation, you have the wrong interpretation of both Daniel and Revelation, yourself. Daniel was not fulfilled in the first century. It was still ongoing until the Reformation and the end of the 5th kingdom in Daniel 2, which you seem to still see as Paul did, through a glass darkly. Do you think you have it all figured out? So be it. You will see clearly at the Second Coming, that there were 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2 and not just 4.

I do not have to really declare who each individual in history fulfilled what. I do think that the horn of the Greek Empire in Daniel 11 was Antiochus Epiphanes. You can justify why Daniel was given information about the 4th kingdom several chapters prior to the 3rd kingdom as if repeating knowledge we should have already understood. Daniel never understood his dreams until after he was dead. Seems that is how most, who think they understand Daniel, will figure things out. After they have passed from this life of death, into eternal life.

John was not inventing everything out of scratch. He did use themes from the OT. But Revelation clears up Daniel, not that it builds off of what Daniel saw. John saw things way more clearly in person when they happened, not at night while he was sleeping, like Daniel.

As I mentioned to you before, you have grossly brought Daniel and Revelation together as though they were speaking the same prophectic messages from God...they are not. Daniel has its own message from God that are written for His people as they return from Babylon and the arrival of the Messiah. Yes, chapter 11 does go into details about the events after the cross to the little horn sitting on top of the 4th kingdom beast now known as papal Rome, but that is where Daniel ends. He is not writing to the end time folks...

Daniel will help us interpret Revelation but they are not meant to give us the same story... You do not understand the structure and boundaries and borders and restrictions that are given to us in Daniel. Chapter 2 gives us all the restrictions, borders and boundaries, and limitations and guidance for us to interpret Daniel - not only does it give us the number of kings and kingdoms, but the time elements these prophecies belong in --- but everyone has not found or honored or even recognized this very distinct series of limiations. God has designed Daniel with 4 very distinct corners just like a 1000 piece puzzle set.

You still want to try and match Daniel with Revelation using Revelation as the standard ... it is a completed different book with a very different message for a very different period of time. Essentially, Daniel ends at the cross, while Revelation begins after the cross. Do you think it is a coincicdence that after the chaptrer 1 introduction chapter He begins discussing the 7 churches? This is the first event that takes place after the cross - the beginning of His church... and it moves forward not backwards into the Old Testament or even Daniel - it moves forward to today's time but it will use familiar symbols found in Daniel, Isaiah, etc. to help us identify their meaning...


And regarding the need or declare who each individual in history is found in Revelation or Daniel - that makes no sense because God has indeed given us all that we need to identify each and every actor in both Daniel and Revelation....Revelation does not clear up Daniel - they are two very different books and speak about two very different times in our history - Daniel speaks up to His first coming while Revelation speaks to His return . One ends with the cross and the other begins with the cross.

If you want to study and understand Daniel - ignore Revelation - there is nothing in Revelation that will TEACH you about Daniel. Daniel will provide some very needed symbols and history - 4 kingdoms and their kings that will be referenced in Revelation ..

I can see by your questions and certainly many others that you are not able to treat them as very separate books with different audiences, prophetic time lines and purposes....

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn's action to persecute the saints in Daniel 7 matches the mortally wounded but healed head of Revelation 13

The text does not say any head/mountain takes any actions, let alone any particular head. Mountains don't take actions anyways and cannot persecute anyone. The 7 headed beast is a global empire and it persecutes the saints and this is done by the leader of it, the FP.

 

[Douggg]

The text does not say any head/mountain takes any actions, let alone any particular head. Mountains don't take actions anyways and cannot persecute anyone. The 7 headed beast is a global empire and it persecutes the saints and this is done by the leader of it, the FP.

In the Revelation 13:1-2 opposed to God beast, the seven heads on the beast are not mountains in that description, but seven kings.

One of the heads (kings) John sees has been mortally wounded, but healed. Mountains are not mortally wounded, but healed. Mountains are a geographic feature.

The mortally wounded, but healed head, the beast-king, will be worshiped as it says in Revelation 13:3-4

The false prophet is a false religious leader who will promote the beast-king. The false prophet is never said in the text of Revelation to be a king himself.

 

[ewq1938]

In the Revelation 13:1-2 opposed to God beast, the seven heads on the beast are not mountains in that description, but seven kings.

Nope, they are mountains as Rev 17 explains. Mountains are areas of land that rise up above sea level. This can include large areas such as countries or even continents. There are only 10 kings, with one ruler above them called the false prophet. There's no other leaders or kings.

 

[Douggg]

Nope, they are mountains as Rev 17 explains. Mountains are areas of land that rise up above sea level. This can include large areas such as countries or even continents. There are only 10 kings, with one ruler above them called the false prophet. There's no other leaders or kings.

Mountains are not mortally wounded, but healed. Revelation 13:3.

Revelation 17:10 says there are seven kings. Five fallen, one is, and one yet to come. And the one yet to come, when he comes, he must continue a short space. The short space is the 42 months of Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

[ewq1938]

Mountains are not mortally wounded, but healed. Revelation 13:3.

They can be. Japan and Germany were mortally wounded but healed from the ravages of war.

 

[Douggg]

They can be. Japan and Germany were mortally wounded but healed from the ravages of war.

Neither Japan, nor German, are the mortally wounded head that will be worshiped. Are you trying to understand the bible or just arguing with me out of habit ?

The mortally wound head is the yet to come king, that continues the short space - the 42 months of Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Okay, I am now at verse 13:17-18 which introduces us to the number 666.

I don’t expect this is going to be an easy interpretation… as many have been, but I don’t think I have seen or read any that made any sense … but I have never studied this before …

So, anyone truly interpret these two verses?

I can’t interpret them. Agree with you; most of what I hear as what those verses are saying makes no sense. We do know that often something doesn’t make sense like when Jesus said one must eat His flesh and drink His blood. While most agree he was Not speaking cannibalism, there is still varied opinions on what he meant and how does one eat His flesh and drink His blood? The point for bringing that up is in questioning what people say about 666 not making sense. I don’t know if it will make logical sense.

While looking back at the passage you asked about a few things stand out. I’ve heard the mark being all sorts of things. One that I’ve heard often is a computer chip…or even something to do with money. Or even I’ve heard when the government was giving back checks that if you took them and cashed those checks, then you (fearfully) received the mark of the beast. Consider the verse that follows it:

Revelation 14:1 Lexicon: Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

biblehub.com

Whatever “a mark” is these receive a name (His Name) written in their forehead of the Lamb and the Father. To me that rules out literal interpretations. Like chips. Checks.

Second) those in that verse that follow the Lamb …were “purchased”. Insignificant? Maybe. But in a passage that speaks of no man buying(able to purchase) or sell…a “purchase” is made. Is that random? Makes me think of the verse: 1 Corinthians 7:23 KJV - 23 You are bought with a price; be not you the servants of men.
Insignificant? I don’t think so but it helps with buying and selling …what is “to purchase?” and does it mean food? Revelation 3:17-18 Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: [18] I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eyesalve, that you may see.

One interpretation scares and makes hoarders of supplies for a time comes of not being able to purchase. Consider the Lamb and “you are bought” “purchased” to me does the opposite of fear and dread of a drought. Where we must lay up plenty in our storehouses…ask the one giving you the interpretation of 666 to show you his storehouse and if he takes you to an arsenal of weapons and food/water stores, then hasn’t he shown you where he stores(keeps) his goods?
remember OT when Joseph prepared for the time of famine coming? And provided for His brothers? Significant with the Lamb (Imo) who does make a purchase. Following those verses of a time where no man can buy or sell…

Third) is let him who has wisdom…
There are two wisdoms where one is devilish and leads to strife and debates and hatred of one another…this wisdom not from God.
The wisdom from God being first gentle, peaceable, easily intreated, full of mercy and Grace and forgiveness. Which wisdom should interpret the passage you asked about? Men’s wisdom or God’s Wisdom, His Spirit teaching these things? A red flag for me is most of the interpretations provoke fear of “gather” and “collect” what goods you can even go off the grid if necessary and prepare “save yourself”. That doesn’t sound like the Wisdom of God for they mocked and taunted Jesus Christ to come down off the cross and “Save Himself”! Not forgetting if you see brothers in need and you have this worlds goods and shut up you bowels of compassion, how is the Love of God in you? How does God fit into hoarding in fear to “gather” and “collect” to turn mountain men and women living off the grid? All this surrounding not able to “purchase” or “buy” or “sell” …maybe the wisdom of men is stuck on goods and supplies as the focal point of “gather” “preserve” and “collect” but in my opinion that isn’t the goodness of God but instead “gather” “preserve” and “collect” the things that belong to God and “strengthen your brothers”.

I get that may be seen as attacking others self preservation. But I really truly think mens wisdom has us going after the things of men and not the things that belong to God. The whole focus …if we would really open our eyes and ask the hard questions…which interpretations provoke fear and which gives a strong place to stand? The strong place to stand is not on our own; preparedness of men for a time of not able to purchase or sell…
but it is for a time of Gods preparation??? “You have been purchased”
1 Corinthians 6:20 For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
How do we define a “purchase” made in “buying” and “selling”? Is the Word speaking of canned goods?

 

[CTK]

I can’t interpret them. Agree with you; most of what I hear as what those verses are saying makes no sense. We do know that often something doesn’t make sense like when Jesus said one must eat His flesh and drink His blood. While most agree he was Not speaking cannibalism, there is still varied opinions on what he meant and how does one eat His flesh and drink His blood? The point for bringing that up is in questioning what people say about 666 not making sense. I don’t know if it will make logical sense.

While looking back at the passage you asked about a few things stand out. I’ve heard the mark being all sorts of things. One that I’ve heard often is a computer chip…or even something to do with money. Or even I’ve heard when the government was giving back checks that if you took them and cashed those checks, then you (fearfully) received the mark of the beast. Consider the verse that follows it:

Revelation 14:1 Lexicon: Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

biblehub.com

Whatever “a mark” is these receive a name (His Name) written in their forehead of the Lamb and the Father. To me that rules out literal interpretations. Like chips. Checks.

Second) those in that verse that follow the Lamb …were “purchased”. Insignificant? Maybe. But in a passage that speaks of no man buying(able to purchase) or sell…a “purchase” is made. Is that random? Makes me think of the verse: 1 Corinthians 7:23 KJV - 23 You are bought with a price; be not you the servants of men.
Insignificant? I don’t think so but it helps with buying and selling …what is “to purchase?” and does it mean food? Revelation 3:17-18 Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: [18] I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eyesalve, that you may see.

One interpretation scares and makes hoarders of supplies for a time comes of not being able to purchase. Consider the Lamb and “you are bought” “purchased” to me does the opposite of fear and dread of a drought. Where we must lay up plenty in our storehouses…ask the one giving you the interpretation of 666 to show you his storehouse and if he takes you to an arsenal of weapons and food/water stores, then hasn’t he shown you where he stores(keeps) his goods?
remember OT when Joseph prepared for the time of famine coming? And provided for His brothers? Significant with the Lamb (Imo) who does make a purchase. Following those verses of a time where no man can buy or sell…

Third) is let him who has wisdom…
There are two wisdoms where one is devilish and leads to strife and debates and hatred of one another…this wisdom not from God.
The wisdom from God being first gentle, peaceable, easily intreated, full of mercy and Grace and forgiveness. Which wisdom should interpret the passage you asked about? Men’s wisdom or God’s Wisdom, His Spirit teaching these things? A red flag for me is most of the interpretations provoke fear of “gather” and “collect” what goods you can even go off the grid if necessary and prepare “save yourself”. That doesn’t sound like the Wisdom of God for they mocked and taunted Jesus Christ to come down off the cross and “Save Himself”! Not forgetting if you see brothers in need and you have this worlds goods and shut up you bowels of compassion, how is the Love of God in you? How does God fit into hoarding in fear to “gather” and “collect” to turn mountain men and women living off the grid? All this surrounding not able to “purchase” or “buy” or “sell” …maybe the wisdom of men is stuck on goods and supplies as the focal point of “gather” “preserve” and “collect” but in my opinion that isn’t the goodness of God but instead “gather” “preserve” and “collect” the things that belong to God and “strengthen your brothers”.

I get that may be seen as attacking others self preservation. But I really truly think mens wisdom has us going after the things of men and not the things that belong to God. The whole focus …if we would really open our eyes and ask the hard questions…which interpretations provoke fear and which gives a strong place to stand? The strong place to stand is not on our own; preparedness of men for a time of not able to purchase or sell…
but it is for a time of Gods preparation??? “You have been purchased”
1 Corinthians 6:20 For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
How do we define a “purchase” made in “buying” and “selling”? Is the Word speaking of canned goods?

Really enjoyed your post.... here is what I have so far regarding 13:18...I have read the other interpretations on this subject and none of them made any sense to me.... In my opinion, it is necessary to try and interpret Revelation, not in a physical manner, but in a spiritual or symbolic way....

When Godwrites of "seas" He is not talking about the Mediterranean,
When God writes about "mountains" He is not talking about physical mountains,
When God writes about "buying and selling" He is not talking about purchased food and commodities,

Everything He is revealing to us is referring to His plan of salvation, His kingdom, not the earthly world.



Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge, calling for deep spiritual discernment. The number 666 carries immense symbolic meaning, pointing to the beast’s counterfeit system and its attempt to subvert God’s authority. By examining its biblical, historical, and spiritual significance, we can uncover its deeper message and implications for humanity. The verse begins with a call to wisdom: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast." This phrase signals that the meaning of 666 is not immediately obvious; it requires spiritual insight and careful reflection, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wisdom in Scripture is often associated with reverence for God and obedience to His Word (Proverbs 9:10). Here, the wisdom called for is a discernment of spiritual truths, distinguishing God’s kingdom from the counterfeit system established by the beast.

The text identifies 666 as "the number of a man," emphasizing the human-centered nature of the beast’s authority. This phrase draws attention to the imperfection and incompleteness of humanity apart from God. In Scripture, the number 6 often symbolizes human limitation, as man was created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-31). The repetition of 6 three times—666—intensifies this symbolism, representing the ultimate expression of human-centered rebellion against God. This rebellion is epitomized in the beast’s system, which elevates human authority and traditions above God’s sovereignty. The papacy, as the one sitting atop the sea beast, exemplifies this through its claims of divine authority, such as the title "Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility. These claims position human leaders in a role meant only for Christ, fulfilling the blasphemous nature of the beast described in Revelation 13:1-6. The structure of 666 reveals the beast’s attempt to counterfeit the divine Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this unholy trinity:

The Dragon (Satan) counterfeits the Father by giving power and authority to the sea beast (Revelation 13:2, 13:4). Just as the Father is the source of all divine authority, the dragon seeks to position himself as the ultimate ruler.

The Sea Beast (Papacy) counterfeits the Son by claiming to be the head of the Church and a mediator between God and humanity. Titles like "Vicar of Christ" mimic Christ’s role as Savior and Mediator, but with a focus on human authority.

The Earth Beast (XXXXXX) counterfeits the Holy Spirit by promoting and enforcing the sea beast’s authority, performing signs and wonders to deceive humanity (Revelation 13:13-14). Just as the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ, the earth beast glorifies the papacy, spreading its influence worldwide.

Each "6" in 666 reflects the failure of this counterfeit trinity to achieve divine perfection. Where 7 represents completeness and divine perfection, 666 symbolizes imperfection and the ultimate futility of Satan’s rebellion. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception:

Individual Level (6): The mark associated with 666 (Revelation 13:16) demands personal allegiance in thought (forehead) and action (hand). Individuals are compelled to align their beliefs and deeds with the beast’s counterfeit system, replacing devotion to God with submission to human authority.

Institutional Level (60): The beast establishes societal structures, such as Sunday worship, indulgences, and sacramental rituals, to enforce conformity. These practices supplant God’s commandments with human traditions, creating a system of control.

Universal Level (600): The beast’s influence extends globally, uniting nations under its counterfeit gospel. The Vatican’s historical role as a global religious and political power illustrates this level of control.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Really enjoyed your post.... here is what I have so far regarding 13:18...I have read the other interpretations on this subject and none of them made any sense to me.... In my opinion, it is necessary to try and interpret Revelation, not in a physical manner, but in a spiritual or symbolic way....

When Godwrites of "seas" He is not talking about the Mediterranean,
When God writes about "mountains" He is not talking about physical mountains,
When God writes about "buying and selling" He is not talking about purchased food and commodities,

Everything He is revealing to us is referring to His plan of salvation, His kingdom, not the earthly world.



Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge, calling for deep spiritual discernment. The number 666 carries immense symbolic meaning, pointing to the beast’s counterfeit system and its attempt to subvert God’s authority. By examining its biblical, historical, and spiritual significance, we can uncover its deeper message and implications for humanity. The verse begins with a call to wisdom: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast." This phrase signals that the meaning of 666 is not immediately obvious; it requires spiritual insight and careful reflection, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wisdom in Scripture is often associated with reverence for God and obedience to His Word (Proverbs 9:10). Here, the wisdom called for is a discernment of spiritual truths, distinguishing God’s kingdom from the counterfeit system established by the beast.

The text identifies 666 as "the number of a man," emphasizing the human-centered nature of the beast’s authority. This phrase draws attention to the imperfection and incompleteness of humanity apart from God. In Scripture, the number 6 often symbolizes human limitation, as man was created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-31). The repetition of 6 three times—666—intensifies this symbolism, representing the ultimate expression of human-centered rebellion against God. This rebellion is epitomized in the beast’s system, which elevates human authority and traditions above God’s sovereignty. The papacy, as the one sitting atop the sea beast, exemplifies this through its claims of divine authority, such as the title "Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility. These claims position human leaders in a role meant only for Christ, fulfilling the blasphemous nature of the beast described in Revelation 13:1-6. The structure of 666 reveals the beast’s attempt to counterfeit the divine Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this unholy trinity:

The Dragon (Satan) counterfeits the Father by giving power and authority to the sea beast (Revelation 13:2, 13:4). Just as the Father is the source of all divine authority, the dragon seeks to position himself as the ultimate ruler.

The Sea Beast (Papacy) counterfeits the Son by claiming to be the head of the Church and a mediator between God and humanity. Titles like "Vicar of Christ" mimic Christ’s role as Savior and Mediator, but with a focus on human authority.

The Earth Beast (XXXXXX) counterfeits the Holy Spirit by promoting and enforcing the sea beast’s authority, performing signs and wonders to deceive humanity (Revelation 13:13-14). Just as the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ, the earth beast glorifies the papacy, spreading its influence worldwide.

Each "6" in 666 reflects the failure of this counterfeit trinity to achieve divine perfection. Where 7 represents completeness and divine perfection, 666 symbolizes imperfection and the ultimate futility of Satan’s rebellion. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception:

Individual Level (6): The mark associated with 666 (Revelation 13:16) demands personal allegiance in thought (forehead) and action (hand). Individuals are compelled to align their beliefs and deeds with the beast’s counterfeit system, replacing devotion to God with submission to human authority.

Institutional Level (60): The beast establishes societal structures, such as Sunday worship, indulgences, and sacramental rituals, to enforce conformity. These practices supplant God’s commandments with human traditions, creating a system of control.

Universal Level (600): The beast’s influence extends globally, uniting nations under its counterfeit gospel. The Vatican’s historical role as a global religious and political power illustrates this level of control.

You lost me near the end only because my mind is somewhere else. I loved the beginning of your post but midway through my mind is on temples. Your OP helped this morning because I needed this closer look at the passages you asked about. This may seem random but my husband and I have been watching a documentary where a man visits temples constructed all over the world. Most of them have a back story with similarities to the word of God. Yet they speak of other characters and although it sounds similar, it’s a different tale every time. In the documentary it tells what they suspect is the age of the temples which goes way back(way further than I knew), which shocked me because I am narrow minded. questions are asked like why are there temples all over, who helped or told those who had no connections to one another geographically, to build theses temples. Was it aliens? What were they used for? Some worshipped Venus, some the god of water and floods. They all speak of a feathered serpent that came by water. I know that is a lot and seems off topic but for me …watching this documentary made me start to doubt God. Hearing all the stories from other cultures and how they all have pieces of events from the word(even before it was written), but the characters are changed and have different names…I begin to doubt God or what I’ve been taught. Your topic helped me this morning concerning doubt. God has shown us His Character. Is it random temples being all over and in ruin and falling down, people having to repair them (restoring them) to what they (today)think was their original beauty? Some of the temples generation upon generation upon generation have built upon the temple to erect the levels of growth—taking generations of it being passed down. This is significant I think with 666 in someway and how “God doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands”.

I love what you said in your post: When Godwrites of "seas" He is not talking about the Mediterranean,
When God writes about "mountains" He is not talking about physical mountains,
When God writes about "buying and selling" He is not talking about purchased food and commodities,
…agree.

I don’t know how to interpret the passage you asked about but I do think when God’s character is revealed it helps with the passage. As you said regarding 666: “Everything He is revealing to us is referring to His plan of salvation, His kingdom, not the earthly world.” And “This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge,”

Luke 12:21-23 Such is the one who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich in relation to God.” [22] And He said to His disciples, “For this reason I tell you, do not worry about your life, as to what you are to eat; nor for your body, as to what you are to wear. [23] For life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.
Luke 12:23 Lexicon: "For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.
-what that says to me is Life is more than worry there won’t be enough food for you and your brother and the body is more than killing your brother so that you be not found naked. To me it says not to worry for God will increase the Fruit and provide the New Man for clothing.

Love the above in Luke concerning storing up treasure for yourself, and not rich in relation to God. Paul speaks of this here:
2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

I still remain weary if I ask one to show me their storehouse and they take me Outback to an arsenal of guns and food/water. I want to say “Don’t show me this storehouse you have built for I’ll become fearful also, and go away myself to build my own storehouse and fill it with the same. Help me to be rich towards God.” That is how I feel about it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Really enjoyed your post.... here is what I have so far regarding 13:18...I have read the other interpretations on this subject and none of them made any sense to me.... In my opinion, it is necessary to try and interpret Revelation, not in a physical manner, but in a spiritual or symbolic way....

When Godwrites of "seas" He is not talking about the Mediterranean,
When God writes about "mountains" He is not talking about physical mountains,
When God writes about "buying and selling" He is not talking about purchased food and commodities,

Everything He is revealing to us is referring to His plan of salvation, His kingdom, not the earthly world.



Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge, calling for deep spiritual discernment. The number 666 carries immense symbolic meaning, pointing to the beast’s counterfeit system and its attempt to subvert God’s authority. By examining its biblical, historical, and spiritual significance, we can uncover its deeper message and implications for humanity. The verse begins with a call to wisdom: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast." This phrase signals that the meaning of 666 is not immediately obvious; it requires spiritual insight and careful reflection, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wisdom in Scripture is often associated with reverence for God and obedience to His Word (Proverbs 9:10). Here, the wisdom called for is a discernment of spiritual truths, distinguishing God’s kingdom from the counterfeit system established by the beast.

The text identifies 666 as "the number of a man," emphasizing the human-centered nature of the beast’s authority. This phrase draws attention to the imperfection and incompleteness of humanity apart from God. In Scripture, the number 6 often symbolizes human limitation, as man was created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-31). The repetition of 6 three times—666—intensifies this symbolism, representing the ultimate expression of human-centered rebellion against God. This rebellion is epitomized in the beast’s system, which elevates human authority and traditions above God’s sovereignty. The papacy, as the one sitting atop the sea beast, exemplifies this through its claims of divine authority, such as the title "Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility. These claims position human leaders in a role meant only for Christ, fulfilling the blasphemous nature of the beast described in Revelation 13:1-6. The structure of 666 reveals the beast’s attempt to counterfeit the divine Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this unholy trinity:

The Dragon (Satan) counterfeits the Father by giving power and authority to the sea beast (Revelation 13:2, 13:4). Just as the Father is the source of all divine authority, the dragon seeks to position himself as the ultimate ruler.

The Sea Beast (Papacy) counterfeits the Son by claiming to be the head of the Church and a mediator between God and humanity. Titles like "Vicar of Christ" mimic Christ’s role as Savior and Mediator, but with a focus on human authority.

The Earth Beast (XXXXXX) counterfeits the Holy Spirit by promoting and enforcing the sea beast’s authority, performing signs and wonders to deceive humanity (Revelation 13:13-14). Just as the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ, the earth beast glorifies the papacy, spreading its influence worldwide.

Each "6" in 666 reflects the failure of this counterfeit trinity to achieve divine perfection. Where 7 represents completeness and divine perfection, 666 symbolizes imperfection and the ultimate futility of Satan’s rebellion. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception:

Individual Level (6): The mark associated with 666 (Revelation 13:16) demands personal allegiance in thought (forehead) and action (hand). Individuals are compelled to align their beliefs and deeds with the beast’s counterfeit system, replacing devotion to God with submission to human authority.

Institutional Level (60): The beast establishes societal structures, such as Sunday worship, indulgences, and sacramental rituals, to enforce conformity. These practices supplant God’s commandments with human traditions, creating a system of control.

Universal Level (600): The beast’s influence extends globally, uniting nations under its counterfeit gospel. The Vatican’s historical role as a global religious and political power illustrates this level of control.

Reread it slower. I can see this concerning manmade doctrines but it’s everywhere. Yes, can we see an origin? i think that is what you are pointing to? It seems everything about this world is about control for who gets the highest seats?

 

[CTK]

You lost me near the end only because my mind is somewhere else. I loved the beginning of your post but midway through my mind is on temples. Your OP helped this morning because I needed this closer look at the passages you asked about. This may seem random but my husband and I have been watching a documentary where a man visits temples constructed all over the world. Most of them have a back story with similarities to the word of God. Yet they speak of other characters and although it sounds similar, it’s a different tale every time. In the documentary it tells what they suspect is the age of the temples which goes way back(way further than I knew), which shocked me because I am narrow minded. questions are asked like why are there temples all over, who helped or told those who had no connections to one another geographically, to build theses temples. Was it aliens? What were they used for? Some worshipped Venus, some the god of water and floods. They all speak of a feathered serpent that came by water. I know that is a lot and seems off topic but for me …watching this documentary made me start to doubt God. Hearing all the stories from other cultures and how they all have pieces of events from the word(even before it was written), but the characters are changed and have different names…I begin to doubt God or what I’ve been taught. Your topic helped me this morning concerning doubt. God has shown us His Character. Is it random temples being all over and in ruin and falling down, people having to repair them (restoring them) to what they (today)think was their original beauty? Some of the temples generation upon generation upon generation have built upon the temple to erect the levels of growth—taking generations of it being passed down. This is significant I think with 666 in someway and how “God doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands”.

I love what you said in your post: When Godwrites of "seas" He is not talking about the Mediterranean,
When God writes about "mountains" He is not talking about physical mountains,
When God writes about "buying and selling" He is not talking about purchased food and commodities,
…agree.

I don’t know how to interpret the passage you asked about but I do think when God’s character is revealed it helps with the passage. As you said regarding 666: “Everything He is revealing to us is referring to His plan of salvation, His kingdom, not the earthly world.” And “This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge,”

Luke 12:21-23 Such is the one who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich in relation to God.” [22] And He said to His disciples, “For this reason I tell you, do not worry about your life, as to what you are to eat; nor for your body, as to what you are to wear. [23] For life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.
Luke 12:23 Lexicon: "For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.
-what that says to me is Life is more than worry there won’t be enough food for you and your brother and the body is more than killing your brother so that you be not found naked. To me it says not to worry for God will increase the Fruit and provide the New Man for clothing.

Love the above in Luke concerning storing up treasure for yourself, and not rich in relation to God. Paul speaks of this here:
2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

I still remain weary if I ask one to show me their storehouse and they take me Outback to an arsenal of guns and food/water. I want to say “Don’t show me this storehouse you have built for I’ll become fearful also, and go away myself to build my own storehouse and fill it with the same. Help me to be rich towards God.” That is how I feel about it.

Thank you very much for your response... The Scriptures are so difficult to interpret and even more difficult to try and put them into a writing that makes sense .... and, if the interpretation is off, then everything else that follows is truly worlthless... Anyway, please tell me what part of the comment was not clear or not understandable or not what you think the verses tell you.... I would be happy to respond - again, it is only my interpretation ... but I am comfortable with it / them .... until they are not.....