Kerosene Heaters and the Like

[MA2444]

Getting headaches is a good indication that CO might be being produced by the fuel burner in your house. If this is the case, then get your heater appliance checked out to "retune" it so that it stops producing CO.

CO is produced when there is a lack of air at the burners. Now the air could be lacking because the wife left the gas logs on all day and didn't crack a window...or it can also come from extremely dirty burners. Dust & dirt restricts airflow so since burners are premade to be so big and draw in so much air to mix with the fuel to burn so it burns completely and doesn't produce a significant amount of CO. So to "retune" those dirty burners to efficiency's state, you do it in the bath tub, and wash those suckers out!

You can tell when you watch the unit while it is fired up and be able to tell if the burners are lacking air for combustion. The flame will lift off of the burners and drift towards the front of the cabinet. We call this sort of flame to be "rolling out" of the combustion chamber. It can't draw enough air to support combustion thru the burner so it goes seeking air...and rolls out. But if you unit is rolling out the flames, you are already two or three years behind in your unit maintenance!

Indirect heating of a house when using a fuel burner to heat the house is best. That means that the best location for the fuel burner, is installing outside of the house envelope itself.

I saw a...wood burning forced air furnace that gets installed outside the house and if you have a trailer home you can run flex ducting thru the skirting and tie it in with the ductwork, or if in a house you can use insulated Ducting to go into the house and tie in with the ductwork.

I've seen a couple Boilers installed outside, in a small shed near the home and piping was run underground into the house and lines. All the mess out side! All the CO outside! All the rabbits outside! Lol! I went on a no heat call after hours to an outside boiler, and when I opened the shed door, rabbits went everywhere! Zoom zoom Rabbits! I had my gloves on so snatched on up and took him home with me to uh, be my pet! Yeah yeah, that's it! A pet, lol. To a good home, God bless!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Getting headaches is a good indication that CO might be being produced by the fuel burner in your house. If this is the case, then get your heater appliance checked out to "retune" it so that it stops producing CO.

Many years ago, the RSPCA, in the city I live in, had a gas oven specially designed and built that produced CO to humanly euthanize unwanted cats and dogs. The CO would cause the cats and dogs to initially quietly fall asleep before they succumbed to the CO poisoning.

This is also what happens to people who have been overcome with CO poisoning.

Indirect heating of a house when using a fuel burner to heat the house is best. That means that the best location for the fuel burner, is installing outside of the house envelope itself.

In a cold climate heating a house is important, not just for the comfort of the people who live in the house but to stop condensation from forming in the house which then brings on mould. This mould can also be detrimental to the wellbeing of the house occupants. That means that any water vapour has to be vented from the house as well before it can condensate on the walls and ceilings of the house. This means that the air temperature cannot go below the dew point of the flowing air through the house. Remember that one primary source of water vapour comes out of the mouths of the people inside the house.

This subject matter is much bigger than keeping people comfortable within the house. There are many things to consider, all at the same time.

I’m confused. My husband does HVAC. Do you mean CO from the kerosene heater…or to have our unit checked? I’ve worried about CO -and get confused. My mothers home has a gas furnace and gas stove. It smells like rotten eggs which is different from the smell of CO which doesn’t smell although it kills? Is that correct. We have an electric heat pump. My husband says we don’t have anything to worry over CO. Except for when we use the Kerosene heater during snow storms. I always make sure the CO detector has fresh batteries and place it in the room with the kerosene heater. I can count on one hand how many times we have had to use the kerosene heater throughout our thirty-five year marriage. We do have a generator. My husband plugs it up outside, the fumes from it are horrible too.

 

[MA2444]

Sort of speculating Overseas gals…(many, not all customs)… Wife subservant to Husband…
Christianity …view, Wife a help “mate”, both subservant to God.

Glory to God,
Taken

My wife of 26 years was from Poland and just immigrated here from Poland. She was basically raised on a farm so she could do everything! And humble? Man oh man, She got pregnant and so I got us a place and we're at home now, and she asks if she can get a drink of water! (What?!)

It took her 23 years to get Americanized I think in retrospect I prolly should have held a thumb to her just a wee bit more...we live and learn.

 

[DuckieLady]

(Whispers): overseas.

(runs)

My father always told me if I do anything, to protect a man's self-esteem. That was all I needed to be told.

 

[Jay Ross]

We have an electric heat pump. My husband says we don’t have anything to worry over CO. Except for when we use the Kerosene heater during snow storms.

It sounds like your husband does know what he is doing.

Trust him.

PS: - Where I live in Ozzie land, I too use a heat pump. It is called an air conditioner here. I can use it to heat and cool our house but I mainly use it to dry the air rather than to heat or cool the air. By drying the air, I find that my body can feel the impact of the dry air on cooling me in our bedroom. When the air has been dried, I find that the AC does not work very hard at all.

 

[Verily]

What kind of husbands do you girls have? Lol! Chopping wood is the mans job.

The only reason a woman ever chops wood, is if she wants to.

Thats why I aint' ever done it

Mine works 6-7 days a week and just doesnt feel like it, and I don't blame him. He is not some rural cowboy who has nothing else to do but tend to all the land stuffs. He is a city boy that moved into the country (because I wanted to). He's done it but doesn't get as much satisfaction from doing it (as I might get watching him do it) haha.

Besides, he's getting older too, so I try and give him some slack and just pay the younger guys to do it because we are able to do that. Do him the favor, because he'll say he will get to alot of things he might want to commit himself to but he doesn't and I know he wont so in this case I have it hauled in. Gotta have the hubbys back.

 

[MA2444]

In a cold climate heating a house is important, not just for the comfort of the people who live in the house but to stop condensation from forming in the house which then brings on mould. This mould can also be detrimental to the wellbeing of the house occupants. That means that any water vapour has to be vented from the house as well before it can condensate on the walls and ceilings of the house. This means that the air temperature cannot go below the dew point of the flowing air through the house. Remember that one primary source of water vapour comes out of the mouths of the people inside the house.

What are you, a Heat Tech? You sorta sound like it, lol. Yah, dew point is a good point!

Now warm moist air hold more heat than dry air does, so we have Humidifiers installed on the furnace. Now one can get the dew point from the Weather guys or you can calculate it yourself, lol. But if you don't have temperature probes and Hygrometers you can do it the easy way by looking at your windows and see if they have humidity on them.

The colder it is outside the less humidity you need to hold the same amount of heat in the air. So when the cold window has water drops on it (or frost, inside) then you know that you better turn down the humidity. otherwise it gets all over the woodwork and rots it and can create mold also, not a good thing. You have to pay more attention to your windows after it dips below 0 deg outside.

That's why back in cowboy days they kept a pot of water on the wood stove for the humidity to make it more comfortable in the house. That was before humidifiers, lol.

I took my own dew point reading before. What I did was to tape a K-type temperature sensor to the window and took it's temperature and left it on while the storm was blowing in. I always kept my house in Colorado at about 40% Humidity and I took a reading on that too and it was real close to 40% (IIRC). And the ambient air temperature in the house was about 70 deg F. So that would make the dew point of the glass window surface start condensing humidity at about 43 deg F. And a wee bit later, I had drops on my window. (When the temp dropped to 43 deg of the window.) That works if you have a multi meter and stuff.

I got nice woodwork in my home now and, I have a humidifier so havent had any problems.

 

[MA2444]

It sounds like your husband does know what he is doing.

Trust him.

PS: - Where I live in Ozzie land, I too use a heat pump. It is called an air conditioner here. I can use it to heat and cool our house but I mainly to it to dry the air rather than to heat or cool the air. By drying the air, I find that my body can feel the impact of the dry air on cooling me in our bedroom. When the air has been dried, I find that the AC does not work very hard at all.

Ozzieland? Oh! You guys must have 60% humidity huh? Wow.

So at 70 deg ambient air temperature and 60% humidity gives you a 55 deg F dew point! Whoa! Got any woodwork left, brother? Your house must be pouring!

 

[MA2444]

My father always told me if I do anything, to protect a man's self-esteem. That was all I needed to be told.

That's very profound.

 

[Jay Ross]

What are you, a Heat Tech?

I am a qualified Energy utilisation professional with many years of experience in the Gas industry.

I see that there is no real long-term future in Solar panels or wind turbines as these energy sources are not suitable for base load generation. Fossil fuels are a renewable energy source. Unless methane is extracted from the coal seams, and used to supply our energy needs then we will always have methane in the atmosphere affecting the ozone layer.

What we are presently generating at the moment is a bigger toxic problem than what we already have at the moment.

 

[MA2444]

Sort of speculating Overseas gals…(many, not all customs)… Wife subservant to Husband…
Christianity …view, Wife a help “mate”, both subservant to God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Huh. Try Catholic view from European girls!

My wife was Catholic and we didn't see eye to eye on God at all. She's start a fight with me if I wanted to drop a buck into the plate at church. We took the kids to a Christian church simply because I was more of a Christian than she was a Catholic so we went to my church.

She was weird. She had a big heart and even turned us around one time when she was driving because she saw a guy walking barefoot, so she turned around and biguht him some shoes and socks. Yet I can't put a buck in the plate at church because, we aint buying his suits or making payments on his Cadillac... like that's a reson not to give? Weird.

My advice, if you get a European girl who was raised right and is humble and stuff...don't spoil her! Plenty of communication...

 

[MA2444]

I am a qualified Energy utilisation professional with many years of experience in the Gas industry.

I see that there is no real long-term future in Solar panels or wind turbines as these energy sources are not suitable for base load generation. Fossil fuels are a renewable energy source. Unless methane is extracted from the coal seams, and used to supply our energy needs then we will always have methane in the atmosphere affecting the ozone layer.

What we are presently generating at the moment is a bigger toxic problem than what we already have at the moment.

I knew you was in the industry somehow by how you talk, lol.

I know all about natural gas and LP gas and fuel oil because that's what got me into the industry! I got turned down at my first Plumbing & Heating shop I ever applied to...Huh?
I said, I'm not afraid to dig...and brother, I was on the job with a shovel in my hand in less than 30 minutes! Digging up residential service lines for replacement. Small world.

 

[MA2444]

I am a qualified Energy utilisation professional with many years of experience in the Gas industry.

Oh! The guy with the clip board & tape measure! I knew I shouldn't have picked up that pipe wrench! Lol!

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh! The guy with the clip board & tape measure! I knew I shouldn't have picked up that pipe wrench! Lol!

No, I was a solution provider.

Let me give you an example.

I attended a church where the auditorium had a 12 m high ceiling, and told the "powers that be" that I could cool the auditorium by simply cutting a 11 m2 hole through the roof to provide up to 8 air changes an hour in the auditorium when it was being used and filled with people. The administrator dug a hole for himself when he tried to get me to install the system a week or so before I was going overseas to Nepal for three months.

He then decided to check if my system would work and so during the week when there were no people in the auditorium, he opened up a heat vent over the stage area of the room. He discovered that it did not work. Why did it not work? Because there was no energy source in the auditorium to passively heat the air so that it would rise and create a pressure differential between the underside and the outside of the roof itself thereby creating an air flow that would bring fresh lower humidity air into the auditorium.

Since there were no bums sitting in the auditorium during his test, there was no energy source to cause the required air flow that would keep the people cool during the services.

So, he reported that what I had proposed would not work and so they have now installed a massive air conditioning plant on top of the building to dry the air so that people will feel cooler as their sweat evaporates and subsequently makes them feel cooler with ongoing running cost which I had engineered out.

Ignorance stifles many great solutions because others cannot get their laughing matter round the solution to understand it.

 

[DuckieLady]

No, I was a solution provider.

Let me give you an example.

I attended a church where the auditorium had a 12 m high ceiling, and told the "powers that be" that I could cool the auditorium by simply cutting a 11 m2 hole through the roof to provide up to 8 air changes an hour in the auditorium when it was being used and filled with people. The administrator dug a hole for himself when he tried to get me to install the system a week or so before I was going overseas to Nepal for three months.

He then decided to check if my system would work and so during the week when there were no people in the auditorium, he opened up a heat vent over the stage area of the room. He discovered that it did not work. Why did it not work? Because there was no energy source in the auditorium to passively heat the air so that it would rise and create a pressure differential between the underside and the outside of the roof itself thereby creating an air flow that would bring fresh lower humidity air into the auditorium.

Since there were no bums sitting in the auditorium during his test, there was no energy source to cause the required air flow that would keep the people cool during the services.

So, he reported that what I had proposed would not work and so they have now installed a massive air conditioning plant on top of the building to dry the air so that people will feel cooler as their sweat evaporates and subsequently makes them feel cooler with ongoing running cost which I had engineered out.

Ignorance stifles many great solutions because others cannot get their laughing matter round the solution to understand it.

So I'm trying to listen to what you said.

I don't know how houses are built there. I know my old friend from England was amazed that our houses were all wood houses... So brick won't heat our house.

I remember watching a gentleman who lived off grid and he said his house was heated by a stack of tires outside of his home. Now, I won't be doing that, but it makes me feel closer to an idea.

It also sounds like since our house was built previously, we should not install a fireplace. I'm fine with that. It's expensive.

I'm considering Reflectix for the windows and painting the house a different color in the future.

 

[Rockerduck]

No, I was a solution provider.

Let me give you an example.

I attended a church where the auditorium had a 12 m high ceiling, and told the "powers that be" that I could cool the auditorium by simply cutting a 11 m2 hole through the roof to provide up to 8 air changes an hour in the auditorium when it was being used and filled with people. The administrator dug a hole for himself when he tried to get me to install the system a week or so before I was going overseas to Nepal for three months.

He then decided to check if my system would work and so during the week when there were no people in the auditorium, he opened up a heat vent over the stage area of the room. He discovered that it did not work. Why did it not work? Because there was no energy source in the auditorium to passively heat the air so that it would rise and create a pressure differential between the underside and the outside of the roof itself thereby creating an air flow that would bring fresh lower humidity air into the auditorium.

Since there were no bums sitting in the auditorium during his test, there was no energy source to cause the required air flow that would keep the people cool during the services.

So, he reported that what I had proposed would not work and so they have now installed a massive air conditioning plant on top of the building to dry the air so that people will feel cooler as their sweat evaporates and subsequently makes them feel cooler with ongoing running cost which I had engineered out.

Ignorance stifles many great solutions because others cannot get their laughing matter round the solution to understand it.

I had an unrestricted HVAC license for 30 years. I worked on Chillers and boilers in large buildings, but had to tackle heat and air problems in commercial buildings. I have some stories to tell, also.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[MA2444]

I had an unrestricted HVAC license for 30 years. I worked on Chillers and boilers in large buildings, but had to tackle heat and air problems in commercial buildings. I have some stories to tell, also.

Mine was restricted, they called it light commercial (which includes anything residential) and I was limited to 400K BTU's/7 tons in Colorado for 22 years above the board. I've been inside exactly two chillers and was the helper those days, not lead man. I got zillions of stories, lol.

One time when I was starting to get used to old RTU's and 80% furnaces and I went on a RTU no heat call and it was a giant old Lennox. It didn't have an access panel on the side it was the whole top lifted up! I lifted that top up and went WHOA! This thing had rows and rows of computer boards in it, maybe 20 or 25 of them! It boggled my mind and I knew I was basically lost on this one, lol. I never seen such an over-controlled unit in my life. But I was there and the man tasked with fix that thing! SO I rolled up my sleeves (so to speak) and did the only thing I really knew how to do in this instance, lol! I jumped out the Stat to see if it was internal or external to the unit...and it fired right up real nice. Huh! I did it, bad stat. I got so lucky!

I went down there and talked to the customer and told him, hey you got a 25 to 30 year old unit up there with a bank of computer boards in it and they are expensive. When they start going out, you might as well save that money for a new unit or it will eat you up in repair costs, get rid of that of that thing if your smart! We replaced it for them the next year.

Lennox was a problem child in Colorado. Oh they have nice commercials, but they didn't put enough money into R&D as they did into ol' Dave's salary and it surfaced in the field!. So many residential units came miswired from the factory! And some bad controls too, shame on Lennox! I had started at a huge company in C. Springs (HPE) which had different departments for installers and service men so when they were miswired or otherwise non-functional when we were done installing it, I wasn't allowed to touch them to fix it. It was mighty embarrassing to me to have to tell many customers, we're done installing your new unit, someone will be out shortly to make it work...(Lol). Whoa.

 

[Rockerduck]

Mine was restricted, they called it light commercial (which includes anything residential) and I was limited to 400K BTU's/7 tons in Colorado for 22 years above the board. I've been inside exactly two chillers and was the helper those days, not lead man. I got zillions of stories, lol.

One time when I was starting to get used to old RTU's and 80% furnaces and I went on a RTU no heat call and it was a giant old Lennox. It didn't have an access panel on the side it was the whole top lifted up! I lifted that top up and went WHOA! This thing had rows and rows of computer boards in it, maybe 20 or 25 of them! It boggled my mind and I knew I was basically lost on this one, lol. I never seen such an over-controlled unit in my life. But I was there and the man tasked with fix that thing! SO I rolled up my sleeves (so to speak) and did the only thing I really knew how to do in this instance, lol! I jumped out the Stat to see if it was internal or external to the unit...and it fired right up real nice. Huh! I did it, bad stat. I got so lucky!

I went down there and talked to the customer and told him, hey you got a 25 to 30 year old unit up there with a bank of computer boards in it and they are expensive. When they start going out, you might as well save that money for a new unit or it will eat you up in repair costs, get rid of that of that thing if your smart! We replaced it for them the next year.

Lennox was a problem child in Colorado. Oh they have nice commercials, but they didn't put enough money into R&D as they did into ol' Dave's salary and it surfaced in the field!. So many residential units came miswired from the factory! And some bad controls too, shame on Lennox! I had started at a huge company in C. Springs (HPE) which had different departments for installers and service men so when they were miswired or otherwise non-functional when we were done installing it, I wasn't allowed to touch them to fix it. It was mighty embarrassing to me to have to tell many customers, we're done installing your new unit, someone will be out shortly to make it work...(Lol). Whoa.

I didn't like Lennox either. I went on an old building that had a Lennox rooftop. It was the biggest they made back then. You could live it in it. You carried a set of circuit boards for Lennox to service them. Carrier had the same type of system, but they didn't fail much and were serviceable. The biggest AHU I've worked on was in a big library. It had an air wash system. It was the size of a Mack truck.

 

[DuckieLady]

View attachment 55961

Most of the US is freezing, meanwhile Florida is in hell.

Also morally.