Revelation 16:19 The great city was divided into 3 parts...

[Berean]

In Revelation 16:19, the city was divided into 3 parts. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and its symbolism?

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."​

Babylon was made up of three parts: (1) the city or capital, (2) the nation, and (3) the empire. All were referred to as Babylon but viewed differently. Together, they formed the empire. Spiritually, (1) the capital stands for the Papacy, (2) the nation represents both the Papacy and Protestantism, and (3) the empire includes the Papacy, Protestantism, and civil authority. The empire, known as the “great city” (verse 19), symbolizes Christendom, which is the entire church and state system. This shows that the three parts were originally the unholy trio mentioned in verse 13: the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon.

The phrase “and the cities of the nations fell” should be better understood as “and the city of the nations fell” (Sinaitic manuscript). Although the alliance of international forces may seem effective for a while, it will not last. For convenience, the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon will try to distance themselves from their now-unpopular ties. This separation will reveal the mystical center or capital of Babylon to the anger of those who are unhappy.

Great Babylon is remembered by God, who will give her the cup filled with the strong wine of His anger. For many years, the Roman Church has mistreated those she labeled as heretics, including some true saints of the Lord (Rev. 16:6). In the past, the Lord stayed quiet while the false Church's wicked actions grew worse. Now, they will come before Him, seeking judgment and punishment. In this context, the "cup" serves as a reminder of when Belshazzar, the king of Babylon, mocked the Lord's sacred items, leading to the city's downfall.

 

[CTK]

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."​

Babylon was made up of three parts: (1) the city or capital, (2) the nation, and (3) the empire. All were referred to as Babylon but viewed differently. Together, they formed the empire. Spiritually, (1) the capital stands for the Papacy, (2) the nation represents both the Papacy and Protestantism, and (3) the empire includes the Papacy, Protestantism, and civil authority. The empire, known as the “great city” (verse 19), symbolizes Christendom, which is the entire church and state system. This shows that the three parts were originally the unholy trio mentioned in verse 13: the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon.

The phrase “and the cities of the nations fell” should be better understood as “and the city of the nations fell” (Sinaitic manuscript). Although the alliance of international forces may seem effective for a while, it will not last. For convenience, the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon will try to distance themselves from their now-unpopular ties. This separation will reveal the mystical center or capital of Babylon to the anger of those who are unhappy.

Great Babylon is remembered by God, who will give her the cup filled with the strong wine of His anger. For many years, the Roman Church has mistreated those she labeled as heretics, including some true saints of the Lord (Rev. 16:6). In the past, the Lord stayed quiet while the false Church's wicked actions grew worse. Now, they will come before Him, seeking judgment and punishment. In this context, the "cup" serves as a reminder of when Belshazzar, the king of Babylon, mocked the Lord's sacred items, leading to the city's downfall.

Thank you!

 

[quietthinker]

If the earthquake is global where it affects the entire planet and that the city symbolizes those worshiping the beast globally, I don't see the problem with the earthquake being literal in that case. It doesn't matter that the city is not literal, what matters is that the people that make up the city are literal. Clearly, a literal earthquake can affect literal people no matter where they live if the earthquake is so great that it is global in scale. Do you seriously think God is incapable of causing an earthquake on this earth that can be felt throughout the entire planet?

Would you argue, for example, that since the city meant in Revelation 11:1-2 is not meaning a literal city geographically located somewhere, that this then means, since the city is not literal nothing literal can happen to anyone that this city symbolizes? For example. No one can literally be persecuted or literally killed by anyone since the city is not literal. Is that what we should believe? That's pretty much what appears to be your reasoning involving this earthquake in question, that since the city isn't literal then neither is the earthquake literal. Which then ignores that the people are literal and that literal earthquakes can affect literal people. Which also ignores that God is perfectly capable of shaking this entire planet, literally, as in the greatest earthquake this planet has ever experienced.

Babylon is the metaphor for misrepresenting God while making out to represent God. Think about it! It embraces the whole religious world....buddhist, baptist, jew so to speak. Every religion claims overtly or covertly to represent God. Ultimately it amounts to a misrepresentation.....and God's people are in this system, subsequently the call to 'come out of Babylon my people' Rev. 18:4
Sincere people have been duped in misunderstanding God because of the religious influences they are subject to.

Babylon's teachings (wine) has its tentacles everywhere.....even on this site!

 

[ewq1938]

Babylon is the metaphor for misrepresenting God while making out to represent God. Think about it! It embraces the whole religious world....buddhist, baptist, jew so to speak. Every religion claims overtly or covertly to represent God.

And SDA?

 

[ewq1938]

(2) the nation represents both the Papacy and Protestantism, and (3) the empire includes the Papacy, Protestantism, and civil authority.​

You forgot denominations like SDA, JW and Christadelphians.

 

[quietthinker]

And SDA?

including SDA
.....but why zoom in on any particular group or individual if one hasn't got sorted out what presenting God well encompasses?

 

[ewq1938]

including SDA
.....but why zoom in on any particular group or individual if one hasn't got sorted out what presenting God well encompasses?

The zoom should be on all of them.

 

[quietthinker]

The zoom should be on all of them.

If the principle is not clearly understood, all the thrashing and bashing about the wrongness of this one or that one only becomes and ego trip under the banner of being honourable.

Babylon is renowned for 'blame'

 

[ewq1938]

If the principle is not clearly understood, all the thrashing and bashing about the wrongness of this one or that one only becomes and ego trip under the banner of being honourable.

Babylon is renowned for 'blame'

And Babylon is not here yet, but her shadow is. When she is here, she will be composed of all religions, and all denominations of Christianity.

 

[quietthinker]

And Babylon is not here yet, but her shadow is. When she is here, she will be composed of all religions, and all denominations of Christianity.

She is here, right under your nose!

 

[ewq1938]

She is here, right under your nose!

No, that's just part of her shadow. Her shadow is across all denominations, even yours. All of them will kneel before her and become part of her as they all worship the beast.

 

[quietthinker]

No, that's just part of her shadow. Her shadow is across all denominations, even yours. All of them will kneel before her and become part of her as they all worship the beast.

No hey?....I would say you don't know how to identify her.
....further, if identification is not known then by default the mark on the head and hand is in place, even the right hand ....and will not be recognised. That's why many have it....particularly the religious.
Why the 'religious' in particular? because they choose how they represent God which is a misrepresentation. Their thinking (head) and doing (right hand) is aligned with their misrepresentation of God.

 

[Davidpt]

This shows that the three parts were originally the unholy trio mentioned in verse 13: the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon.

Interesting. Though, I never considered this before, I can now see how it might be connected to those 3 in particular. I still think the great earthquake in verse 18 and the great hail in verse 21 are literal. I see no reason not to since it makes no sense to say--- and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth---unless it is meaning in the literal sense. The text says-- such as was not since men were upon the earth. How does that part make sense unless it is meaning in the literal sense, as in a literal earthquake?

Something else that comes to mind about the city being divided into 3 parts is the following.

Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Maybe a connection, maybe not.

 

[Davidpt]

Babylon is the metaphor for misrepresenting God while making out to represent God. Think about it! It embraces the whole religious world....buddhist, baptist, jew so to speak. Every religion claims overtly or covertly to represent God. Ultimately it amounts to a misrepresentation.....and God's people are in this system, subsequently the call to 'come out of Babylon my people' Rev. 18:4
Sincere people have been duped in misunderstanding God because of the religious influences they are subject to.

Babylon's teachings (wine) has its tentacles everywhere.....even on this site!

I don't have problem with viewing it in that manner since it makes sense what you said. That still shouldn't mean a literal earthquake is not meant. Revelation 18 has God telling His people to come out of her so that they be not partakers of her plagues. This great earthquake, IMO, would be one of these plagues. Which then means those that are going to come out of her do so before this great earthquake comes. And since this great earthquake is involving the 7th vial of wrath and that the 7th vial of wrath involves the 7th trumpet, and that the 7th trumpet is the last trump, this would seem to mean there are no longer any saints upon the earth when this great earthquake happens. Therefore, if the earthquake is global in scale it can't affect any saved saints since they are no longer on the planet at this point.

 

[quietthinker]

Interesting. Though, I never considered this before, I can now see how it might be connected to those 3 in particular. I still think the great earthquake in verse 18 and the great hail in verse 21 are literal. I see no reason not to since it makes no sense to say--- and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth---unless it is meaning in the literal sense. The text says-- such as was not since men were upon the earth. How does that part make sense unless it is meaning in the literal sense, as in a literal earthquake?

Something else that comes to mind about the city being divided into 3 parts is the following.

Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Maybe a connection, maybe not.

Understand the use of metaphor, understand the use of literary devices and one gets closer to the point
Misunderstand these 'devices' and one can make apples out of pig poo....and spin off in any imagined direction one can conjure.

Look at the pagan religions as an example. Every corner of the globe's history has a morphing and contradictory idea of who and what is God......a result of having no foundation which holds up; the flow on of self focused navel gazing, tunnel visioned, inflated ego's and peaceless hearts.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't have problem with viewing it in that manner since it makes sense what you said. That still shouldn't mean a literal earthquake is not meant. Revelation 18 has God telling His people to come out of her so that they be not partakers of her plagues. This great earthquake, IMO, would be one of these plagues. Which then means those that are going to come out of her do so before this great earthquake comes. And since this great earthquake is involving the 7th vial of wrath and that the 7th vial of wrath involves the 7th trumpet, and that the 7th trumpet is the last trump, this would seem to mean there are no longer any saints upon the earth when this great earthquake happens. Therefore, if the earthquake is global in scale it can't affect any saved saints since they are no longer on the planet at this point.

David, do you have an unbroken connection between what you are saying and the Gospel Message? I ask because Revelation is the revealing of Jesus Christ. It tells us this at the outset of the book.
The conflicts are to do with the ideology of Satan and the revealing of God in Jesus (the Gospel) I'm not sure if you understand this.

 

[Berean]

You forgot denominations like SDA, JW and Christadelphians.

They're included

 

[ewq1938]

No hey?....I would say you don't know how to identify her.

And that's what I am saying to you. You have been taught who she is and that she's been here a long time but that doesn't match scripture. What you identify is not Babylon but her shadow...something similar but not fully what she will be. She isn't one denomination of one religion but will be all of them.

....further, if identification is not known then by default the mark on the head and hand is in place, even the right hand ....and will not be recognised. That's why many have it....particularly the religious.
Why the 'religious' in particular? because they choose how they represent God which is a misrepresentation. Their thinking (head) and doing (right hand) is aligned with their misrepresentation of God.

Again, only shadows of the mark exist now.

 

[Davidpt]

David, do you have an unbroken connection between what you are saying and the Gospel Message? I ask because Revelation is the revealing of Jesus Christ. It tells us this at the outset of the book.
The conflicts are to do with the ideology of Satan and the revealing of God in Jesus (the Gospel) I'm not sure if you understand this.

What are you meaning by this? Nothing can be literal in the book of Revelation? And if anyone takes anything literal, such as this great earthquake, this great hail, this means what? It also says in Revelation that this book is prophecy. Prophesies typically involve literal events that are predicted in advance and come to pass in the future. For example. The book of Revelation predicts a great white throne judgment. That is a literal event, is it not?

 

[grafted branch]

What are you meaning by this? Nothing can be literal in the book of Revelation? And if anyone takes anything literal, such as this great earthquake, this great hail, this means what? It also says in Revelation that this book is prophecy. Prophesies typically involve literal events that are predicted in advance and come to pass in the future. For example. The book of Revelation predicts a great white throne judgment. That is a literal event, is it not?

I think QT is ultimately asking about your Premil view. He’s asking about the conflict of the gospel and the ideology of Satan. The ideology of Satan has to do with the binding of Satan and when that occurs.