No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of The Father, He has made Him known. John 1 verse 18 I have been in The Spirit preaching and these words were spoken, "Jesus proceeded out of the bosom of The Father. " And then looking in the Word of God we see John 1 verse18. The Father, The Son(Jesus) and The Holy Spirit are three, and yet they are One. It is not meant for us to understand this, but only know(believe) that it is so.
God begets God?
- Thread starter Matthias
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“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; see Mk. 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).”
(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, p. 244, Abridged Edition)
The scriptures leave no doubt at all that the God of the fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel is the God and Father of Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God.
The Messiah’s God is the Father, not the Trinity.
Jesus of Nazereth himself is undeniably a Jewish unitary monotheist, not a trinitarian.
@Ritajanice
I am The Lord, that is my Name; My Glory I give to no other, nor My praise to graven images. Is 42 v 8.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by The Holy Spirit. Jesus is Lord.
A wise scribe out of his treasure(treasury) will bring something old,(Testament) and something new.(Testament)
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
97% of the Body of Christ ( of which there are 2.7 billion) believe Jesus is God and in the Trinity. Looks like your theology on that subject is made of straw! I'll side with the majority - thank you very much.
I think you should do what your conscience tells you to do.
***
My conscience tells me to side with the Messiah, himself a unitarian. His theology on every subject is solid rock.
Being in the minority doesn’t concern me at all.
Thanks, and you’re welcome.
The Messiah’s God.
Jesus is adoni.
Psalm 110:1 fits the description. I’ll bring that.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is the voice I hear in my conscience, so yes I will follow His guidance. He puts thing in perspective for me. Thanks to Him I have a clearer conscience.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Doesn't it seem odd that He would lead the majority of Christianity to believe Jesus is God and a minority not. He is not whispering in your conscience the same words as He is to me. Honestly, He is the Spirit of Truth and would not do tteaxg one person truth and another a lie. So one of us is not hearing His truth about Jesus. The odds are stacked in our favor with Jesus being God.
And then about the Holy Spirit ... you have a different perspective about Him as well. The Father and Jesus said they would send "another" Helper, Who would live in us, guide us ... Do you commune with Him? Or do you think He is the Father. Jesus seemed to make a distinction between the two.
Jesus himself is the comforter.
Doesn’t it seem odd to you that Jesus, whom I’ve heard you say you follow, is a unitarian and you aren’t?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I have to confess it is the first time I've heard anyone claim that Jesus was a Unitarian. But hey, it's getting late in Texas. You have a good night sleep!
It’s getting even later in Kentucky. Goodnight.
Intelligent design.
”In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was nothing made that was made.”
(John 1:1-3, Geneva Bible)
Where was the design located before all things were made by it?
It was located in the mind of the creator; it was located in the mind of the Messiah’s God; it was located in the Father’s mind. It was with him. It was his thought.
Intelligent design -> God’s plan and purpose.
Intelligent design -> everything that was created preexisted; not a literal preexistence, but rather a notional / ideal preexistence.
God planned what he made prior to making it. Everything that was made was made by him, according to his plan.
Intelligent design is what John is speaking about in the prologue of his Gospel.
then side with those fellow comrades on the wide road to perdition I guess...?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
@APAK
Don't twist it around to imply we are all headed for perdition/ destruction. I never implied that about Non-Trinitarians.
You believe that Jesus died our your sins, was buried and rose on the third day - right? You follow Him, right? Jesus said, If you believe in Me, you'll be saved! That's what justifies you, your faith.
I have many Jehovah Witnesses in my family whom are loving and I love them. They believe and follow Jesus and are also Non-Trinitarians. I believe they are saved too. Their church is connected to the Vine, it's just not growing - only 8+ million after over 100 years. If somwthing is wrong with a church, such as false doctrines, the Holy Spirit does not grow that church. Mormons have been around a long time time too with only 16 million of them.
In 1900, there were 500 million Christians ( about 1/3 of the population). Today there are about 2.7 billion ( about 1/3)..That's growth, that is the power of the Holy Spirit growing Christianity and God is right on track.
Still one third is considered the narrow gate and wide leads to destruction ( that includes everyone else trying to be saved by something or someone other than Christ).
So Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, all other religions or philosophies or Atheism are taking that wide path.
The nature of God is mysterious and not fully in our grasp. We see dimly and so God does not expect us to underatand it all. If Christians were disqualified for believing a false doctrine or two, many of us would flunk the test for salvation _ if there was one. But we can't earn it in any way by works. Our faith is surely tested but that is to strengthen us for Jesus is the AUTHOR of our Faith and He fulfilled the Law for us, He passed the test. Some seed falls on rocky or shallow soil and does not take root to grow and produce fruit. These folks will fall away. But His sheep will all be accounted for.
Don't twist it around to imply we are all headed for perdition/ destruction. I never implied that about Non-Trinitarians.
You believe that Jesus died our your sins, was buried and rose on the third day - right? You follow Him, right? Jesus said, If you believe in Me, you'll be saved! That's what justifies you, your faith.
I have many Jehovah Witnesses in my family whom are loving and I love them. They believe and follow Jesus and are also Non-Trinitarians. I believe they are saved too. Their church is connected to the Vine, it's just not growing - only 8+ million after over 100 years. If somwthing is wrong with a church, such as false doctrines, the Holy Spirit does not grow that church. Mormons have been around a long time time too with only 16 million of them.
In 1900, there were 500 million Christians ( about 1/3 of the population). Today there are about 2.7 billion ( about 1/3)..That's growth, that is the power of the Holy Spirit growing Christianity and God is right on track.
Still one third is considered the narrow gate and wide leads to destruction ( that includes everyone else trying to be saved by something or someone other than Christ).
So Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, all other religions or philosophies or Atheism are taking that wide path.
The nature of God is mysterious and not fully in our grasp. We see dimly and so God does not expect us to underatand it all. If Christians were disqualified for believing a false doctrine or two, many of us would flunk the test for salvation _ if there was one. But we can't earn it in any way by works. Our faith is surely tested but that is to strengthen us for Jesus is the AUTHOR of our Faith and He fulfilled the Law for us, He passed the test. Some seed falls on rocky or shallow soil and does not take root to grow and produce fruit. These folks will fall away. But His sheep will all be accounted for.
In regard to analogies, I offer the following, written by a trinitarian, for consideration by trinitarians and non-trinitarians.
“Don’t use them. Any of them. Ever.”
"The Trinity is Like 3-in-1 Shampoo". . . And Other Stupid Statements - Credo House Ministries
Alternate title: “Trinitarian Heresy 101” “The doctrine of the Trinity is like an egg: three parts, one thing.” Ever heard that? How about this, “The doctrine of the Trinity is like a three leaf clover: three leaves, one clover.” Or how about THIS, “The doctrine of the Trinity is like water...credohouse.org
When I was a college student my professors insisted that students must never use analogies for the Trinity. The reason is a simple one -> there is nothing analogous to the Trinity in nature. Every attempt to use an analogy, even if the attempt is sincere, always ends badly.
Trinitarian or non-trinitarian, please don’t use analogies for the Trinity. Trinitarians do it out of ignorance; non-trinitarian either out of ignorance or with intentional malice. They aren’t helpful. Ever.
I see this evening that my advice was rejected and a new analogy has been offered, in another thread, for the Trinity. The analogy used teaches modalism, which is a form of unitarianism, not trinitarianism.
If I (a Jewish monotheist) had done that, trinitarians would have objected strenuously, and rightfully so. I would be misrepresenting their deity.
Does it matter to trinitarians when someone who self-identifies as trinitarian does it? When one of their own misrepresents their deity? Sometimes. It should; every time, and to all.
Thanks. I’ve seen it. It’s located in a forum that I can read but am not allowed to post. (I’m satisfied with that arrangement. The less tolerant among the trinitarians are pleased with it, too. The more tolerant among them don’t care one way or the other. It’s a Win-Win solution all the way around for us. So far, I haven’t heard any non-trinitarian express dissatisfaction with my arrangement. Anyone who wants to discuss the Trinity - or anything else - with me knows where to find me.)
He’s a modalist and doesn’t realize it. If he truly wants to be a trinitarian then he needs to learn what trinitarianism actually teaches. No analogy will accomplish that for him, nor for anyone else. The best option for it to happen is for a true trinitarian to gently correct and properly instruct him in becoming one.
“We are a Trinity believing forum” - a recent (12/06/24) public communication to all members of Christianity Board from an administrator.
I’m a Jewish monotheist (and everyone should know that Jewish monotheism is strict unitarianism) who believes that a fellow Jewish monotheist (Jesus of Nazareth) is the Messiah, Son of the living God.
I’m a guest in the trinitarian house. I don’t have the run of the house, nor do I seek to have it.
I thank my host for allowing me to be here (there are many things which we can, and do, agree on) and I strive to abide by the house rules.
I’m a Jewish monotheist (and everyone should know that Jewish monotheism is strict unitarianism) who believes that a fellow Jewish monotheist (Jesus of Nazareth) is the Messiah, Son of the living God.
I’m a guest in the trinitarian house. I don’t have the run of the house, nor do I seek to have it.
I thank my host for allowing me to be here (there are many things which we can, and do, agree on) and I strive to abide by the house rules.
I for one have not strictly gone with the rules as you in spirit, being as a guest of the Trinitarian realm. I have pushed the limits at times, and then back off....I will honor the consequences of my actions
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