Deceiving Yourself?

[APAK]

Don’t agree..

Do you understand what it means to be Born Of God that his seed remains in us?

If you don’t, then you can’t possibly know that I sin no more it can only come by = supernatural divine heart revelation.

I don’t sin in the eyes of God, I am a partaker Of his divine nature?

By whose Living witness do we know that we are Born Again?

Never ever do u confess my sins to God..I have none, they are hidden in Christ, plus I am in the righteousness of Christ.

Listen to what I wrote again RJ.

Yes, you don't sin as God sees it today. Although even a wrong or infraction, however small, that is few far between today, and also convicted by the Spirit of God still is a sign that you are not perfect without sin; even with the seed of God within you.

So you are perfect then RJ? And you cannot see yourself saying to God something like this, "...please God through your Son, I just got mad at someone without cause that weighs heavily on my heart today, and its not going away I did not mean it, please forgive me...and help me make amends...."? This confession is done in love and in the Spirt of God RJ, who sees you without sin today....

 

[Verily]

Doing this would prove someone perverse

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

The LORD can

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

 

[Ritajanice]

Listen to what I wrote again RJ.

Yes, you don't sin as God sees it today. Although even a wrong or infraction, however small, that is few far between today, and also convicted by the Spirit of God still is a sign that you are not perfect without sin; even with the seed of God within you.

Seed of God, by whose Living witness?.do we know that the seed of God remains in us.who is that seed?

Where in us is that seed?

So you are perfect then RJ?

You voiced what you believe, I disagreed with it 100%.

You obviously don’t understand what it means that Gods seed remains in them.

I am perfect in the eyes of God of course i am, even though I still live in this old body of sin, I’m in the new man.
God sees no sin in his child, I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ, a partaker Of his divine nature.

And you cannot see yourself saying to God something like this, "...please God through your Son, I just got mad at someone without cause that weighs heavily on my heart today, and its not going away I did not mean it, please forgive me...and help me make amends...."? This confession is done in love and in the Spirt of God RJ, who sees you without sin today....

So no Spirit questions answered.

If I do wrong I ask him to help me with it, that is not me confessing my sin , nor sinning.

Do you understand what the role of the Holy Spirit is?


The New Covenant
(Jeremiah 31:26–40)

6Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. 8But God found fault with the people and said:

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,

when I will make a new covenant

with the house of Israel

and with the house of Judah.

9It will not be like the covenant

I made with their fathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of the land of Egypt,

because they did not abide by My covenant,

and I disregarded them,

declares the Lord.
10For this is the covenant I will make

with the house of Israel

after those days,

declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their minds

and inscribe them on their hearts.

And I will be their God,

and they will be My people.

11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother,

saying, ‘Know the Lord,’

because they will all know Me,

from the least of them to the greatest.

12For I will forgive their iniquities

and will remember their sins no more.”b

13By speaking of a new covenant,c He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Verily,

I appreciate your contributions. I'm a little unclear about your question regarding this post (post Deceiving Yourself?) , but I also want to thank you for incorporating some scripture. It somewhat reminds me of the parable Jesus told about the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, which relates to what you mentioned from James. One was unaware of their own state, while the other was very aware of themselves.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @ElectedbyHim,

I wanted you to know that the website is Welcome | Precept Austin .(org), not .com which you shared. I appreciate you providing those references. It appears the conclusion is that there needs to be a transformation in both heart and mind regarding the matters of Yahavah. In my view, a clearer definition relates to the biblical verses mentioned in the original post, which address "not making a practice of sin."

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @APAK,

When discussing prayers to Yahavah/God, it's perfectly acceptable to ask Him to assist our hearts and minds towards others when we make mistakes, or to help us redirect our anger or hatred, and to enable us to forgive others, among other things. It's important to remember that there is no wrong in speaking to God about anything we are experiencing at any moment, including asking Him to watch over others and help their hearts find truth. He may even send someone to convey a message that can nurture their growth in Christ, or assist those who have yet to understand that God is present for them and that Christ resides within them. Your mention of prayer is significant because it holds great importance. There are times when I face personal challenges that I share with God, and even though His grace is sufficient, we can still communicate with Him about everything and pray for others as we navigate life. I believe this is our most profound way of connecting with our Father in heaven, in the name of the Lord Jesus. Thank you for some of your contributions here to the thread.

 

[APAK]

Hello @APAK,

When discussing prayers to Yahavah/God, it's perfectly acceptable to ask Him to assist our hearts and minds towards others when we make mistakes, or to help us redirect our anger or hatred, and to enable us to forgive others, among other things. It's important to remember that there is no wrong in speaking to God about anything we are experiencing at any moment, including asking Him to watch over others and help their hearts find truth. He may even send someone to convey a message that can nurture their growth in Christ, or assist those who have yet to understand that God is present for them and that Christ resides within them. Your mention of prayer is significant because it holds great importance. There are times when I face personal challenges that I share with God, and even though His grace is sufficient, we can still communicate with Him about everything and pray for others as we navigate life. I believe this is our most profound way of connecting with our Father in heaven, in the name of the Lord Jesus. Thank you for some of your contributions here to the thread.

Word! we are in sync on this matter..God Bless you Matthew

 

[Verily]

Hello @Verily,

I appreciate your contributions. I'm a little unclear about your question regarding this post (post Deceiving Yourself?) , but I also want to thank you for incorporating some scripture. It somewhat reminds me of the parable Jesus told about the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, which relates to what you mentioned from James. One was unaware of their own state, while the other was very aware of themselves.

We come to Christ as sinners because that is who died for

Jesus said,

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like

Being a doer of the word is encouraged by Jesus and such are defined as the wise.

This would be the self deceived

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Verily,

Indeed. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for everyone and atoned for the sins of all humanity. Everyone has fallen short of God's glory, as I mentioned in my initial post; may I ask if you took the time to read it? I concur with you about being a doer of the word; I appreciate the Book of James, which reveals many insights within its context, including matters people prayed about regarding becoming materially wealthy (rich in pleasures) (I am reminded of the Pharisees who loved to make long-standing prayers) instead of spiritually rich (in Christ Jesus by the Spirit of Christ). This is why some individuals' prayers go unheard. It also addresses how one might treat a wealthy person in contrast to a poor person, showing disdain for the latter. There are numerous valuable lessons in that Letter, which was addressed to the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.

I truly believe that self-reflection occurs in our hearts when we gaze into the mirror and see our own image. Whether good or bad, we are aware of our actions, and we cannot conceal these truths from God himself. Thus, we express our gratitude to the Father and the Lord Yeshua for what they have accomplished for the world, allowing us to experience a new spiritual life through dying in Christ, being buried in Christ, and rising again in Christ to embrace a new way of living by and through the Spirit, in contrast to our previous self-centered thoughts.

 

[Verily]

Hello @Verily,

Indeed. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for everyone and atoned for the sins of all humanity. Everyone has fallen short of God's glory, as I mentioned in my initial post; may I ask if you took the time to read it?

I read it and responded to it

I concur with you about being a doer of the word; I appreciate the Book of James,

Cool

which reveals many insights within its context, including matters people prayed about regarding becoming materially wealthy (rich in prayers) (I am reminded of the Pharisees who loved to make long-standing prayers) instead of spiritually rich (in Christ Jesus by the Spirit of Christ).

You mean James 4:3 I am supposing

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

This is why some individuals' prayers go unheard.

And he called them

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

It also addresses how one might treat a wealthy person in contrast to a poor person, showing disdain for the latter.

Yes, despising the poor and having respect of persons

Jas.2​

[1] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
[2] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
[3] And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
[4] Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
[5] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[6] But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
[7] Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Similarly it is written here likewise

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

There are numerous valuable lessons in that Letter, which was addressed to the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.

Your welcome

I truly believe that self-reflection occurs in our hearts when we gaze into the mirror and see our own image. Whether good or bad, we are aware of our actions, and we cannot conceal these truths from God himself. Thus, we express our gratitude to the Father and the Lord Yeshua for what they have accomplished for the world, allowing us to experience a new spiritual life through dying in Christ, being buried in Christ, and rising again in Christ to embrace a new way of living by and through the Spirit, in contrast to our previous self-centered thoughts.

I would think to embrace a new way of life would fit into what James said, when he speaks of not being a hearer of the word only, wherein one deceives himself.

 

[MatthewG]

It appears that the conclusion remains that it is solely through the power of the Spirit of Christ that we can engage in anything related to the Will of God, and it is not something imposed on anyone. It involves a stirring of the heart and mind towards the matters of Yahavah, where the spirit encourages us to act accordingly. This is the essence of the matter: no one can capture or control the spirit, as it is akin to the wind that blows freely, and its path is unknown. Remaining in the Lord Yeshua is, of course, a choice made by those who belong to the Father, His adopted children, who can also call out to the Father in times of distress, pain, hatred, anger, malice, ill-will towards others, and arguments for the sake of arguing, along with all other traits inherited from our human nature, as we become new participants and heirs of Christ. It is not about demanding that people alter their behavior or anything similar. It is fundamentally about establishing faith first, and then as God begins to work within individuals' hearts, they will either heed or reject what they perceive. God influences people's minds and hearts through the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Christ, even among those who do not know Him. He reaches their hearts because they seek Him in faith, recognizing their own humility when faced with someone far greater than themselves, being authentic before Him through prayer, and ultimately not deceiving themselves as broken and contrite individuals in need of assistance. It is only through the spirit that we receive help when we call out to Him, and He guides us as we daily set aside our self-centered thoughts and actions, no matter how challenging it may be. Even those considered to be prostitutes are said to enter the Kingdom of Heaven before someone who believes their self-righteousness will lead them there. Ultimately, it comes down to a question of priorities.

I am reminded of Jesus when he says that one must hate their mother, brother, sister, and so on, otherwise they cannot be his disciple. Does this imply we should actually hate our family? No. It pertains to the heart and the priorities it holds. While our physical selves may falter, the spirit of Yeshua consistently aids us in pursuing heavenly matters, in contrast to our earthly tendencies that reside within us, as noted in Galatians 5. I do not claim to be the authority to dictate anyone's actions. As Paul stated, "all things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial." I am simply here to discuss these topics and to help others understand that even the kindest, most gentle person on earth, who possesses the spirit of Christ, may still lose their temper when stuck behind a slow driver or might wish for an annoying neighbor's dog to stop barking at night. The reality is that we all have our individual struggles that we cannot conceal from God. The idea that we can hide these issues from Him seems absurd to me, as He will judge everything, including the good, the bad, and the secrets we whisper to ourselves.

We cannot fool God, as a person will harvest what they plant, whether it is for the flesh or the spirit, with the latter being more advantageous as we turn away from our earthly desires and embrace the Spirit of Christ. This is because the consequences of sin lead to death for the mind, will, and emotions of the soul, in contrast to the illuminating and life-giving spirit that offers new life to the minds and hearts of those who seek the truth about God's matters. If we deceive ourselves, we are not living in reality, and truth holds significance for those who value it.

As it is stated in Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.
And John states, to the audience in his letter, those who belong to God, make an effort not to practice sin, not that they do not sin at all period anymore. It is Jesus Christ whom is now our righteousness. And people should seek him.

 

[TigersPaw]

Hello @TigersPaw,

Certainly! The heart and the essence of our soul, we might even say. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. It's reassuring to know that there are individuals who are empathetic towards these matters, and that there are those who seek and yearn for truth.

Thank You,
You know in my opinion, we over complicate the truth enclosed within the Bible.
I sinned today, I sinned yesterday. I have been around the Bible since 1976 or so.
I am a Pastor ( retired) as well. Yet I often look at what others get wrapped into over and over.
The fact I see is that unless one lives in a steel box then they will sin, the issue is the repentance.
If I repented every time I sinned? I could fill a library. The point however is, I do not want to, and have never
wanted to sin, ever. No since accepting Christ decades ago. Yet I still sin.
And as you point out, the desire not to sin is the key. And God knows in your heart that this is true or false.
I cry out to God at times, not because I have failed him in sin. Its because I do want what he wants.
One can choose to live a life of guilt and shame in sinning. Or one can realize you are a sinner, you will sin, you can not avoid it.
However, if you wish to freely sin, because you want to not be tied down to Gods will. That is a whole other thing.
That is defiance of what God wants.

As parents, we want our kids to be good caring people. Its a goal most parents have.
Will our kids do bad things? Yes. Does this make the kids bad people? No.
However, what happens when our kids defy us? Often times bad things happen.
They may be injured, hurt or killed. Because they did not abide by the path we put for them.
We are not God, yet we understand our kids hearts and soul are what we really want to see do well.
I have to assume by scripture, God wants us to be be sinless. But is aware we will still sin and do as he has asked not to.
But their is a difference in not doing what God wants, and defying it.
In reality thanks to Christ it is not that hard to be in Heaven. Its actually harder to stay out of it.
Because defiance means ignoring the HolySpirit completely. Ever try ignoring the Holy Spirit?
Its painful and full of guilt and trouble ewww.

MHO just my take.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @TigersPaw,

(I kind of touched on some of the things you mentioned here: in post 51, but I would like to respond to you from your post as I believe it's good.)

It must originate from the Spirit of Christ within you. It's true that individuals often complicate the truths found in the Bible. It's great that you were once a Pastor; I believe that people can still teach and be educators and that ministry is part of our lives when we wish to fulfill God's will through Christ Jesus. We are not obligated to do this; rather, it is the Holy Spirit that moves us when the time is right. Whether it’s a brief interaction with someone or an hour spent together, there are individuals who can be influenced by God's messages.

I think your desire to live according to God's will, despite the challenges of sin, is commendable! To me, this reflects the impact of what Jesus Christ accomplished for you by taking your place on the cross; it is our collective burden to bear, yet he did it for the entire world, allowing us to experience a renewed life. I appreciate your observation that a person can choose to sin if they wish. The knowing of the Holy Spirit's presence weighs on us when we know we have erred, and ignoring those knowings, which I believe come from the Vinedresser, leads us to seek Yahavah's assistance or to dismiss it. A transformation in life is undeniable, even if someone is in the position of being constrained and unable to do much. It transitions from a life devoid of God to a state where God is now acknowledged and contemplated in their existence. Even if they do not have everything figured out or possess extensive knowledge of the Bible, God will bestow His spirit upon those who belong to Him.

Some parents hope for their children to succeed in life; I don't believe God wants us to sin, but He understands that we do, which is why He sent His Son to bear our sins in our stead, so we can be enveloped in His righteousness. This is something that is often overlooked.

As Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 1:30, "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

We possess no righteousness of our own; it is solely through his righteousness that we are made right with God. He is the one who is holy (separate from the world) and dwells in and through us by his Spirit. Although we may stumble, as you have mentioned, it is the choice to refrain (not practice) from sin that allows our minds and hearts to rely on the one who is the vine and to remain in him. Even during those moments when it may seem as though God is absent, he truly grants us life each day.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Seed of God, by whose Living witness?.do we know that the seed of God remains in us.who is that seed?

Where in us is that seed?

You voiced what you believe, I disagreed with it 100%.

You obviously don’t understand what it means that Gods seed remains in them.

I am perfect in the eyes of God of course i am, even though I still live in this old body of sin, I’m in the new man.
God sees no sin in his child, I am clothed in the righteousness of Christ, a partaker Of his divine nature.

So no Spirit questions answered.

If I do wrong I ask him to help me with it, that is not me confessing my sin , nor sinning.

Do you understand what the role of the Holy Spirit is?


The New Covenant
(Jeremiah 31:26–40)

6Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. 8But God found fault with the people and said:

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,

when I will make a new covenant

with the house of Israel

and with the house of Judah.

9It will not be like the covenant

I made with their fathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of the land of Egypt,

because they did not abide by My covenant,

and I disregarded them,

declares the Lord.
10For this is the covenant I will make

with the house of Israel

after those days,

declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their minds

and inscribe them on their hearts.

And I will be their God,

and they will be My people.

11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother,

saying, ‘Know the Lord,’

because they will all know Me,

from the least of them to the greatest.

12For I will forgive their iniquities

and will remember their sins no more.”b

13By speaking of a new covenant,c He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear

I see that you're still a baby in Christ. When I was at that stage God pointed out to me the spirit of Laodicea. I had to strive against it and follow God's lead to take it out of me. You'll have to do the same.

 

[Ritajanice]

I see that you're still a baby in Christ. When I was at that stage God pointed out to me the spirit of Laodicea.

I had to strive against it and follow God's lead to take it out of me.

Please show me where God had to take the spirit of Laodicea out of your spirit?

No other spirit can indwell a Born Again @ShineTheLight ?,.our spirit is in Christ?

It’s been Born Of God, our spirit, His seed remains in us, do you understand that?

You'll have to do the same.

What makes you think I’m a baby?

By whose Living witness are you Born Again?

Whose seed gave birth to your spirit?

A Born Again cant go on sinning as they are Born Of God His seed remains in them? By whose testimony does it remain in us and where does the seed permanently remain in us @ShineTheLight ?

How can another spirit indwell my spirit, if my spirit is Born Of The Spirit @ShineTheLight ?

No other spirit can ever indwell a Born Again....only in our minds can we be deceived..even then, God is in control ,we look to him to bring us out of confusion, that’s why we keep walking in faith ,believing that, only trusting in him and no other.

 

[MatthewG]

As each person has a subjectively lived life, my encouragement is for people not to deceive themselves. Seek for God in faith, and may his spirit guide you to the truth.