Deceiving Yourself?

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Hepzibah

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If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.

As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).

In the same letter we read:

He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9

He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6

He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1

John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.

The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.

We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:

1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.

The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.

In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-

1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)

2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven

3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.

Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-

1)We are deceived and remain in our sin

2)There is no truth in us

3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.

So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.

Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis.
 

Behold

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If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.

If we have sin, then Jesus has not died for it, and that means the person with the sin, is not born again.

You can't be "born again" "in Christ', as "one with God"... and have sin, as being born again, is ETERNAL Salvation, not temporary, and its not based on you behavior.

It can be that a person is only water baptized....but that is just a symbolic religious ceremony, that has no power to deal with sin.

See, being born again, is based on ... "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... Eternal Sacrifice.......for sin"..
And once that has happened to the BELIEVER, born again.. then Paul Teaches.......:

= "God was in Christ not counting people's sins against them"...

So that means, that when you find any false teacher = who IS counting sins against the Redeemed, then this one is teaching heresy... false doctrine, and lies.

Reader.
, the reason that God never again charges sin to a Born again CHRISTIAN, is because Jesus has Eternally become..."God hath made JESUS... to be sin for us"..

This means the sin of the born again is dealt with by Jesus's Sacrifice.... = forever...

Listen,
We have to come to this realization.......and that is.......God does not "double judge"..

That means that God does not Judge the born again for sin, because God has already judged Jesus on the Cross, for it.... for eternity.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.........ETERNAL.... Sacrifice for SIN".
 
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Hepzibah

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Testimony

I encountered Christ for the first time, after an atheistic upbringing, at the age of 23.It was a profound experience of which I remember the exact time not just the date. I knew that Christ had died for my sins and I walked on air for three weeks.

There followed however, 17 years when I hungered and thirsted for holiness, even though my church told me that my sins were remembered no more. The Holy Spirit would not let me rest in that, but I did not find it in me to be content and desired to be like the Apostles that I read about.

It all came to a head and I found myself in Romans 7 crying out to God to deliver me from my flesh, and reading the witness of others who had been on that path. He did.

It was not all plain sailing as the devil declared warfare with me. I knew periods where I was delivered and able to walk fully in the Spirit but then not, but this was all part of the training.

God does not force His truth on those who love their lives more than they love Him so there are verses that seem to contradict this message as the one quoted. They will only find the truth if their hearts are not hardened and I will not debate the ones who are hardened. God bless if the message speaks to you.
 
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MatthewG

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Hello @Hepzibah,

Thank you for your contribution. I come from a place of standing which I believe that all sins have been take care of by the Lord Jesus. From what I gather from your post is that the fundamental truth of Sanctification is the process of God working in and with us, to change our mind concerning the ways in which we once were. Similar to Paul and his mentions to the Galatians which he corrects them on it's not the law that makes them right with God, it is the Lord Yeshua, whom wraps us in his righteousness within the heart and mind in walking in the Spirit compared to the fleshly ways which in that day were by and through the Law which the Jewish people had been called to repentance for, along with having killed the Messiah in that day in time. Where the Gentiles had no law, and faith had to come first, then a change of mind would come by and through the Spirit to help them in their sanctification process of changing their mind through repentance of things which they had once lived in, we could live in licentious. I understand also there was those whom were in that day in time, who were saying Jesus was just a mere man, and nothing more. In a sense through sanctification, we change our minds because of allowing God to work on our hearts and minds, concerning the things which we once had indwelled in by and through our fleshly nature, such as murder, greediness, gossiping, and things of those nature which are earthly, and not spiritual. So while a person born of God goes on to not practice sin, by walking in the spirit, they will fall and stammer sometimes in their life just as Peter had done when he walked on water for a moment, but then slipped back down with the world's waves crashing around his feet to take him under but Yeshua was there to help him get through, by his strength, and not our own strength because our own strength fails, and him in and through us does not.

Please let me know if I may have missed anything, or if you have any other remarks, by all means.
 
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Hepzibah

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Thanks @MatthewG but it was not a matter of tripping up now and again, and walking in absolute obedience at other times, trusting in His strength alone.

I found that I did not love the Lord God with my whole heart, mind and soul. I did not know if I would die for Him. There was something inside me that did not want to submit entirely, without knowing the terms I would be under.

On a Sunday I would join in and be full of praise and worship, but come Monday I began to have doubts again, sometimes about whether I was truly saved. I did not measure up in my eyes.

I know now that this is common amongst those who want to go deeper, and that is requires one to walk in dry wilderness places. Many are content and that is as far as it will go. They do not have the hunger. It is easy for those to judge others. Scripture certainly gives them the verses they want but they take them out of context.
 
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Behold

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God bless if the message speaks to you.

Your message speaks to a complete lack of understanding, regarding : The Grace of God that deals with all Sin for eternity, as the "Blood Atonement", that is the "New Testament".

See : 2 Corinthians 5:19

.........and

Romans 4:8
 
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MatthewG

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Hello @Hepzibah,

I appreciate your clarification. You are correct about arid wastelands; those areas desperately need consistent water sources. I notice that many places, including churches, seem to lack genuine concern for teaching the true messages of the Bible. Instead, there is often an emphasis on music and coffee, creating an atmosphere that feels more like emotional manipulation than a focus on truth. This is why the Bible is seldom used effectively to encourage people in their faith journey with the Living God, who I believe is present with everyone. However, many fail to recognize his presence, as doubts tend to resurface after Sundays at church. You are right about the hardness of heart in some individuals, who depend on their intellect or other ulterior motives to evoke feelings rather than fostering a true understanding of faith that God is there for them, alongside them, and ready to assist, despite how some churches or organizations may portray themselves. I’m not suggesting that everyone in a church is insincere, but there are certainly those who are more interested in lining their pockets than in genuinely supporting the congregation. This is why I generally choose not to attend churches, though I acknowledge that there are indeed churches that teach the Bible well, which is commendable if one can find a place where the focus is on helping people grow in faith and find freedom in the Lord Jesus, rather than merely fulfilling obligations or requirements.

When a Church actually teaches the Bible, you are not going to find many people there. Because their needs aren't being met, especially when it comes the need for truth.

I'm happy to hear that you are continuing in faith, and loving God now, and hope that you continue down that road as you journey with him in your life.
 

Ritajanice

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I never repent of my sins, God brought me to repent once and only once.What an insult to Jesus if I keep repenting Of my sins, when he already has my sins, that would mean that he died for nothing.Praise God for that heart revelation.

Being Born Of God’s seed must be revealed to our spirit by = supernatural divine heart revelation. that is how I know that God sees my sins no more, for i am Born Again and clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

1 John 3​

King James Version​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
 

TigersPaw

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Reality, those who think they live without sin, have already done so.
There is no loop hole in the system of saved.
 

MatthewG

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Hello @Ritajanice,

This discussion is not focused on repenting for sins to achieve forgiveness. Jesus has already addressed the issue of sin. The body does commit sins, and the emphasis is on shifting one's mindset from fleshly desires to spiritual matters, even though the body may falter at times. Many individuals fail to understand that the issue of sin has been resolved. It is ultimately up to each person to choose whether or not to acknowledge God, regardless of their actions.

Even in Matthew 21:31, Jesus remarked, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.”

The subject at hand concerns the failures of our flesh, while the spirit of Christ remains steadfast. It is not about repeatedly asking God for forgiveness; rather, it is about choosing to change one's mindset to depend on and live through the Spirit, instead of relying on the flesh, which I know I cannot justify before God.
 

TigersPaw

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Hello @Ritajanice,

This discussion is not focused on repenting for sins to achieve forgiveness. Jesus has already addressed the issue of sin. The body does commit sins, and the emphasis is on shifting one's mindset from fleshly desires to spiritual matters, even though the body may falter at times. Many individuals fail to understand that the issue of sin has been resolved. It is ultimately up to each person to choose whether or not to acknowledge God, regardless of their actions.

Even in Matthew 21:31, Jesus remarked, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.”

The subject at hand concerns the failures of our flesh, while the spirit of Christ remains steadfast. It is not about repeatedly asking God for forgiveness; rather, it is about choosing to change one's mindset to depend on and live through the Spirit, instead of relying on the flesh, which I know I cannot justify before God.
I agree, but tend to look at it as our hearts when saved belong to Christ.
If we choose a different way to view it then it is of the flesh.
 

Ritajanice

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The body does commit sins, and the emphasis is on shifting one's mindset from fleshly desires to spiritual matters
Not true for a Born Again, if you can’t explain what it means to have God’s seed remaining in us?

How could you possibly know that we sin?

We are in the Spirit when we are Born Again, the flesh is no more, the old man will be renewed as we are partakers Of the divine nature?

How do we know that we are Born Of God @MatthewG ..by whose witness?
 

MatthewG

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Hello @TigersPaw,

Certainly! The heart and the essence of our soul, we might even say. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. It's reassuring to know that there are individuals who are empathetic towards these matters, and that there are those who seek and yearn for truth.
 

MatthewG

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Hello @Ritajanice,

I recommend that you check the original post to understand the points being made in this discussion.
 

MatthewG

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I just want to take a moment to thank everyone who has shared and posted here. It’s really important for folks to read the original post before jumping in with comments, but hey, if you don’t want to, that’s cool too. I’m not looking to argue with anyone; I just want to chat about the topic because I think it can really help people who might be stuck in traditions related to the idea of "sinless perfection." Life can be tough, and so can living spiritually, since it often means we have to endure some struggles. If you’re curious and want to learn more, you don’t even have to read the original post—just grab a Bible and check out what the Gospels say, and may God help you become free in truth. And if you want a solid resource, I suggest the Thompson Chain Reference Guide Bible. It’s awesome for anyone wanting to dive deeper into the Bible and covers a bunch of different topics. I’m not interested in going around in circles with those who just want to debate semantics, because that’s not how real discussion works.
 

Verily

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There are many people who support a doctrine in which they themselves become sinlessly perfect in their flesh. To me it's quite an unbiblical notion due to a writing of John's which states (1 John 1:8) if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. The people state that once a person is born of God they never go on to sin ever again, how can that be true? When John explicitly states, that if we say we have no sins, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. People typically do sin, when they are arguing to argue, it's called dissension. Are people ignorant of this? Most likely due to the fact, that word is founded in (Galatians 5:20) concerning the acts of the flesh however the word must be defined if one is going to look into what that even means! Just think about it, if a person uses a word, which you never heard before anyway how do you understand what it is if you do not seek out what the definition is? Now, while God's will is for people to become sanctified. Is that Sanctification within the flesh; or is the one the mind/heart/emotions of the person from the fleshly demeanor to the (John 15:4) abiding in the Messiah, whom helps with the renewing of our mind/heart/emotions to the truths founded in looking towards Yahavah, his Father. Being renewed inwardly from the heart, even so, this flesh lives, we do fall short from time to time: told hold ourselves as though they never sin, they never mess up, they never fail; is a total lie to ourselves. That is why John states what he does! "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." So, how do we reconcile the scripture which states in some translations concerning Johns's same letter, in chapter 3 (1 John 3:9) verse 9; (King James Version) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

While I do not mind the King James Version of the Bible, there are some misnomers found within the text itself. Using this verse from (1 John 3:9) against (1 John 1:8) is a contradiction found now! In one instance, John states "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth in not in us." I know myself, I fail, probably on a daily more than I realize because of my selfish nature that lives within me, that rises up from time to time in my life, my life is known in front of the Living God. I will never be able to say "Look at me God, I didn't fall short anymore!" It's Jesus that helps us from falling short, by the Spirit of Christ within you, if so you are of the Lord Yeshua (Romans 9:9-11) Paul wrote this to the Saints at Rome. Therefore, the truth is, we do sin. Naturally. I'm not a better citizen just because of doing good things, or feeling like I do good things. It's trusting in God in faith, and having him help you in your hearts and mind, even with your falling short, because it's stated in the Book of Romans as well (Romans 3:23-24) "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

If all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, what makes one think that they can just no longer all of a sudden no fall anymore by the means of the flesh? As again once more John wrote, concerning that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not within us." Yet in 1 John 3:9, in the King James Version states, that "Whoeverso is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in h I'm, and he can not sin because he is born of God."

The truth is, that those whom are born again, they abide in Christ, even though their flesh does fail from time to time, perhaps more than they been able to recognize does not go on to make a "practice of sinning." They instead of going in by the fleshly means when someone disagrees with them, or mocks them, or laughs at them, they instead go to God, and seek his help, by the spirit of Christ within them, to instead of reacting in a defensive way, responds in a humble, contrite way, or perhaps doesn't say anything at all, as the spirit brings forth love, peace, kindness, etc... (Galatians 5:22-24).

Don't believe me? There are other versions of the bible, concerning the scripture that John had wrote, in (1 John 3:9) that differs from the statement made in the King James Version, which I don't have a problem with; though the contradicting statements argument is just not concise in truth. Just take a look at the verses below, it's concerning "practice of sinning." The flesh can not be perfect, the holy spirit/spirit of Christ sanctify the mind/hearts of the person to be moved by the spirit, rather than the flesh, and even so they change their minds of reacting within the flesh and more of the spirit, by dying to the flesh and living to the spirit. The truth is, we do fall short, will fall short, however our sins have been forgiven, it just up to you to decide whether or not you will deceive yourself, or realize the matter concerning how these contradictions have to be reconciled there seems to have to be a reconciliation at least to me, and in my of course opinion.


English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Standard Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.
What differences if any might there be between one who has sinned (in the past, which all have) for whom Christ died, verses having sin (or the presence of it,
in our members) and so not without it, but now sin by the grace of God through Christ is not to have dominion over us so that we do not continue to commit sin.

Self deception is spoken of here

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

What we will behold, ones natural face

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass

James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 

APAK

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I never repent of my sins, God brought me to repent once and only once.What an insult to Jesus if I keep repenting Of my sins, when he already has my sins, that would mean that he died for nothing.Praise God for that heart revelation.

Being Born Of God’s seed must be revealed to our spirit by = supernatural divine heart revelation. that is how I know that God sees my sins no more, for i am Born Again and clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

1 John 3​

King James Version​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Yes, our sins after rebirth are now not considered sins if committed in the future, as before rebirth, and we are no longer called sinners...HOWEVER, when ..

However, as believers grow in their faith, they will still struggle with sin and need to repent of specific sinful behaviors and attitudes (1 John 1:9). This ongoing repentance is not a means of earning forgiveness but rather a response to God’s grace, acknowledging the ongoing presence of sin in their lives, and seeking to align themselves with God’s will.

In this sense, believers do not “repent of their sins” in the sense of asking for forgiveness for past sins, as those sins have already been forgiven. Rather, they repent of specific sinful behaviors and attitudes, seeking to turn away from them and live a life pleasing to God.

I believe Matthew's OP is addressing this matter.

RJ, Can you see the difference between the one-time event, where believers are no longer held accountable for their past sins and future struggles of sin that is now not considered sin?
If we confess our sins, he is faithful, and just to forgive us our (current and nagging) sins...to cleanse, re-cleanse us to full righteousness....again...as a continuous process...
 

Ritajanice

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Yes, our sins after rebirth are now not considered sins if committed in the future, as before rebirth, and we are no longer called sinners...HOWEVER, when ..

However, as believers grow in their faith, they will still struggle with sin and need to repent of specific sinful behaviors and attitudes (1 John 1:9). This ongoing repentance is not a means of earning forgiveness but rather a response to God’s grace, acknowledging the ongoing presence of sin in their lives, and seeking to align themselves with God’s will.

In this sense, believers do not “repent of their sins” in the sense of asking for forgiveness for past sins, as those sins have already been forgiven. Rather, they repent of specific sinful behaviors and attitudes, seeking to turn away from them and live a life pleasing to God.

I believe Matthew's OP is addressing this matter.

RJ, Can you see the difference between the one-time event, where believers are no longer held accountable for their past sins and future struggles of sin that is now not considered sin?
If we confess our sins, he is faithful, and just to forgive us our (current and nagging) sins...to cleanse, re-cleanse us to full righteousness....again...as a continuous process...
Don’t agree..

Do you understand what it means to be Born Of God that his seed remains in us?

If you don’t, then you can’t possibly know that I sin no more it can only come by = supernatural divine heart revelation.

I don’t sin in the eyes of God, I am a partaker Of his divine nature?

By whose Living witness do we know that we are Born Again?

Never ever do u confess my sins to God..I have none, they are hidden in Christ, plus I am in the righteousness of Christ.
 
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ElectedbyHim

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The Holiness movement began in 1840 when a Methodist leader named Phoebe Palmer began to hold revivals and teach the necessity of holiness—and how to attain it. Groups and denominations historically associated with the Holiness movement include Wesleyans, Methodists, Nazarenes, and the Salvation Army. However, it should be noted that churches differ widely on doctrine, even within denominations. The Holiness movement did have a profound effect on the history of the church, particularly in North America during the Third Great Awakening. Holiness adherents are typically interested in obedience to the Law and see their obedience as a way to gain closeness to God and greater spirituality.

perfectionism Theological teaching that moral perfection is not merely an ideal for a Christian to strive for, but is attainable in this life in the light of the Scriptures (Matt. 5:48; 1 Cor. 2:6; Eph. 4:13; Phil. 3:15; Col. 1:28; 4:12; Heb. 6:1; 1 John 4:18). In the early church and the Middle Ages, perfection was the goal of the monks and nuns as well as the mystics, and their attainment of this goal was in direct proportion to their asceticism and self-renunciation. In Protestantism, the major advocate of perfectionism was John Wesley, who was himself influenced by Jeremy Taylor and William Law as well as the Mennonites. For Wesley perfection was received through faith and confirmed by the Holy Spirit. Some Wesleyans do not use the term perfection, preferring entire sanctification as somehow less threatening. In the United States, the Oberlin theologians Charles Finney and Asa Mahan upheld perfectionism. Wesley’s perfectionism was carried forward by the American Holiness movement out of which sprang the Church of the Nazarene, the Wesleyan Church, and some forms of Pentecostalism.
Kurian, G. T. (2001). Nelson's new Christian dictionary : The authoritative resource on the Christian world. Nashville, Tenn.: Thomas Nelson Pubs.

1 John 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or has come to know Him. LSB

Greek - pas o en auto menon (PAPMSN) ouch hamartanei (3SPAI) pas o hamartanon (PAPMSN) ouch eoraken (3SRAI) auton oude egnoken (3SRAI) auton .

YLT - every one who is remaining in him doth not (ou) sin; every one who is sinning, hath not (ou) seen him, nor (oude) known him.

Comment: From Young's Literal translation it is easy to see John's three negatives and it is notable that all three in Greek signify absolute negation or categorical denial of what follows! John is saying that the one who abides in Christ is one who absolutely does not manifest a lifestyle of continual, habitual, unabated sin. To the contrary, if one continually lives a life of sin, in simple terms, they don't really know Jesus. Regardless of what they profess, they are not truly born again! They may cry "Lord, Lord" (Mt 7:22-note) but they do not continually do the will of the Father in heaven (Mt 7:21-note). Beloved, do not be deceived! Genuine salvation results in a new creation, a new lifestyle, a new direction. No it is not perfection, but it is a new direction!

1John 5:18 makes a similar statement in the first clause…

We know that no one who is born of God sins (present tense); but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him. (1John 5:18)

No one who abides in Him sins - If we abide in Christ, we cannot live in sin! Sin is no longer our master. Genuine believers cannot live a lifestyle of sin.

C H Spurgeon's approach of letting the plain sense of the text speak plainly! - This plain, simple verse, has been twisted by some who believe in the doctrine of perfection, and they have made it declare that it is possible for some to abide in Christ, and therefore not to sin. But you will remark that it does not say, that some that abide in Christ do not sin; but it says that none who abide in Christ sin. "Whosoever abides in Him does not sin." Therefore this passage is not to be applied to a few who attain to what is called by our Arminian friends the fourth degree—perfection; but it appertains to all believers; and of every soul in Christ it may be said, that he does not sin. In reading the Bible, we read it simply as we would read another book. We ought not to read it as a preacher his text, with the intention of making something out of every word; but we should read it as we find it written: "Whosoever abides in Christ does not sin." Now we are sure that cannot mean that he does not sin at all, but it means that sins not habitually, he sins not designedly, he sins not finally, so as to perish. The Bible often calls a man righteous; but that does not mean that he is perfectly righteous. It calls a man a sinner, but it does not imply that he may not have done some good deeds in his life; it means that that is the man's general character. So with the man who abides in Christ: his general character is not that he is a sinner, but that he is a saint—he sins not openly and willfully before men. In his own heart, he has much to confess, but his life before his fellow creatures is such a one that it can be said of him: "Whosoever abides in Him does not sin; but whosoever sins [the sins of this world. in which the multitude indulge] hath not seen him, neither known him."

Wuest who is well known for his expert writings on the Greek comments that "The words abides and sins are used here to designate a certain class of individual. Character is shown by one’s habitual actions, not the extraordinary ones. The tense of the verbs is present, the kind of action, continuous, habitual. Thus, “every one who habitually is abiding in Him,” is a saved person, and, “every one who habitually is sinning,” an unsaved person. A Christian as a habit of life is abiding in fellowship with the Lord Jesus. Sin may at times enter his life. But sin is the exception, not the rule. The unsaved person as a habit of life sins continually. “Sins” is present tense, continuous action being indicated. The person who is abiding in Christ is not habitually sinning. The child of God as a habit of life, does righteousness, and sin is not a habit with him. John is not teaching sinless perfection here. Vincent says: “John does not teach that believers do not sin, but is speaking of a character, a habit. Throughout the Epistle, he deals with the ideal reality of life in God, in which the love of God and sin exclude each other as light and darkness.” He does not deny that a Christian sins at times. Indeed he admits the possibility of sin in the Christian’s life in 1Jn 1:9-note, and forbids sin in 1Jn 2:1-note. What John denies here is that a Christian sins habitually. He denies that the life of a Christian is wholly turned towards sin as is that of the unsaved person. (Word Studies from the Greek New Testament) (Bolding added)

In spite of the numerous interpretations of this passage, a true understanding of John’s meaning is not difficult to apprehend. The correct view of John’s references here to believers’ not sinning derives from an accurate understanding of the Greek tenses. In this passage the verbs related to sin are all in the present tense, indicating continuous, habitual action. In other words, John is not referring to occasional acts of sin, but to established and continual patterns of sinful behavior. Believers will sometimes sin (Rom. 7:14–25)—even willfully—but they will not and cannot sin habitually, persistently, and as a way of life (cf. Rom. 6:4–14; Gal. 5:24; Eph. 2:10).[1]

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