Trumpet judgements

[CTK]

Ok, I am reading / reviewing the trumpet judgemennts / warnings and would like to ask you folks your opinion.... which I believe I may already know but I need to ask..


It seems to me that the trumpet judgements / warnings are not physical destruction events but may be the final series of warnings from God before the literal bowl judgements are thrown down on the earth...

The trumpets are symbolic but not the bowls and I think the trumpets warnings are intimately connected with the 144000 (Jews) who have been sent out into the world to preach the Good News - exactly as Paul did after his Damascus experience. I think the 144000 represent God removig the blindness from the eyes of His people at the end of the Time of the Gentiles. They recognzie that Jesus is their Messiqh and as they go out into the world the world sees and hears just how corrupted the Word of God has been preached during the past 1500 years by the little horn. As they continue in their final mission for God, the intensity of their push back becomes violent and terrible.... So, that is what I think I am seeing here in Revelation. What say you folks?

 

[ewq1938]

The seals, trumps and bowls are war related.

Seals protected written documents from being read by the wrong ppl. The documents have knowledge about future events.

Trumpets would sound certain sounds that would make certain parts of an army react like attack or retreat. The trumps indicate actions happening.

The bowls are the wrath of God against the ones who took sinful and evil actions in the trumps.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok, I am reading / reviewing the trumpet judgemennts / warnings and would like to ask you folks your opinion.... which I believe I may already know but I need to ask..


It seems to me that the trumpet judgements / warnings are not physical destruction events but may be the final series of warnings from God before the literal bowl judgements are thrown down on the earth...

The trumpets are symbolic but not the bowls and I think the trumpets warnings are intimately connected with the 144000 (Jews) who have been sent out into the world to preach the Good News - exactly as Paul did after his Damascus experience. I think the 144000 represent God removig the blindness from the eyes of His people at the end of the Time of the Gentiles. They recognzie that Jesus is their Messiqh and as they go out into the world the world sees and hears just how corrupted the Word of God has been preached during the past 1500 years by the little horn. As they continue in their final mission for God, the intensity of their push back becomes violent and terrible.... So, that is what I think I am seeing here in Revelation. What say you folks?

The Vials and Trumps are "Parallel" teachings that both see (The End) 7th Vial-7th Trump (The End)

 

[CTK]

The Vials and Trumps are "Parallel" teachings that both see (The End) 7th Vial-7th Trump (The End)

Thanks, but can you comment on the thoughts I mentioned.. not sure your post told me anything.

 

[Galgal]

The seals are signs of the approaching Second Coming of Christ, which are visible only to believers. The trumpets are events in the world, foreshadowing the Second Coming, this will already be seen by all people in the world. The vials of wrath are disasters that will affect everyone, except those believers who live according to the spirit, in Christ Jesus.

 

[grafted branch]

Ok, I am reading / reviewing the trumpet judgemennts / warnings and would like to ask you folks your opinion.... which I believe I may already know but I need to ask..


It seems to me that the trumpet judgements / warnings are not physical destruction events but may be the final series of warnings from God before the literal bowl judgements are thrown down on the earth...

The trumpets are symbolic but not the bowls and I think the trumpets warnings are intimately connected with the 144000 (Jews) who have been sent out into the world to preach the Good News - exactly as Paul did after his Damascus experience. I think the 144000 represent God removig the blindness from the eyes of His people at the end of the Time of the Gentiles. They recognzie that Jesus is their Messiqh and as they go out into the world the world sees and hears just how corrupted the Word of God has been preached during the past 1500 years by the little horn. As they continue in their final mission for God, the intensity of their push back becomes violent and terrible.... So, that is what I think I am seeing here in Revelation. What say you folks?

When looking at the trumpets and bowls, Revelation 22:18 also needs to be considered.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If the plagues are physical in nature then you have to have those who have added to the book in the past get resurrected prior to the plagues in order to participate in them or you’ll need evidence that shows those people who did add to the book somehow did physically experienced the plagues before they died.

There is one other possibility pertaining to physical plagues, if the book of Revelation is viewed as being written specifically to the seven churches prior to 70AD then you could argue that the plagues were the destruction of Jerusalem and those who added to the book participated in that. Then argue that the Revelation 22:18 warning was only meant specifically for them, similar to a verse such as 2 Timothy 4:21 where Paul says “Do thy diligence to come before winter”.

 

[CTK]

When looking at the trumpets and bowls, Revelation 22:18 also needs to be considered.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If the plagues are physical in nature then you have to have those who have added to the book in the past get resurrected prior to the plagues in order to participate in them or you’ll need evidence that shows those people who did add to the book somehow did physically experienced the plagues before they died.

There is one other possibility pertaining to physical plagues, if the book of Revelation is viewed as being written specifically to the seven churches prior to 70AD then you could argue that the plagues were the destruction of Jerusalem and those who added to the book participated in that. Then argue that the Revelation 22:18 warning was only meant specifically for them, similar to a verse such as 2 Timothy 4:21 where Paul says “Do thy diligence to come before winter”.

Sorry, I could not follow that…. Can you explain it for me? Thanks

 

[grafted branch]

Sorry, I could not follow that…. Can you explain it for me? Thanks

Let’s say someone added to the book last week and died this week. According the Revelation 22:18 that person will have the plagues written in the book added to them. Revelation 15:8 describes the angels having the seven last plagues which are pour out in Revelation 16 as the bowls of wrath.

How did or will the hypothetical person who added to the book last week, and is now dead, experience the bowls of wrath?

 

[CTK]

Let’s say someone added to the book last week and died this week. According the Revelation 22:18 that person will have the plagues written in the book added to them. Revelation 15:8 describes the angels having the seven last plagues which are pour out in Revelation 16 as the bowls of wrath.

How did or will the hypothetical person who added to the book last week, and is now dead, experience the bowls of wrath?

How many people do you think have already died over the past 200 years alone that have “added or taken away” from the book of Revelation?

Are they going to experience the plagues that will come upon the earth?

Once again, it is difficult for me to understand your thoughts here? Perhaps I am not seeing things the way you are …

 

[grafted branch]

How many people do you think have already died over the past 200 years alone that have “added or taken away” from the book of Revelation?

I sure there are quite a few.

Are they going to experience the plagues that will come upon the earth?

If the plagues are interpreted as spiritual plagues then we can easily argue that they did spiritually experience the plagues when they added to the book.
If the plagues are interpreted as literal and future then those who added to the book are going to have to be resurrected to participate in the plagues or perhaps something else happens that I’m currently unaware of or haven’t considered.

Once again, it is difficult for me to understand your thoughts here? Perhaps I am not seeing things the way you are …

I apologize for not being clear, I personally only see two possibilities for how Revelation 22:18 can be interpreted. Either the plagues are to be viewed as spiritual plagues or the book of Revelation was written to a specific audience and the Revelation 22:18 warning only applied to them, just as 2 Timothy 4:21 only applied to whom that book was specifically written to.

From the OP it looks like you are leaning towards the bowls of wrath being poured out in the future, I’m willing to entertain any suggestions you might have as to how those who have already added to the book and are now dead will experience the bowls of wrath.

 

[CTK]

I sure there are quite a few.


If the plagues are interpreted as spiritual plagues then we can easily argue that they did spiritually experience the plagues when they added to the book.
If the plagues are interpreted as literal and future then those who added to the book are going to have to be resurrected to participate in the plagues or perhaps something else happens that I’m currently unaware of or haven’t considered.


I apologize for not being clear, I personally only see two possibilities for how Revelation 22:18 can be interpreted. Either the plagues are to be viewed as spiritual plagues or the book of Revelation was written to a specific audience and the Revelation 22:18 warning only applied to them, just as 2 Timothy 4:21 only applied to whom that book was specifically written to.

From the OP it looks like you are leaning towards the bowls of wrath being poured out in the future, I’m willing to entertain any suggestions you might have as to how those who have already added to the book and are now dead will experience the bowls of wrath.

They won't... they are dead. I am sorry but I am just not following you... my bad! By the way, I am currently looking at the trumpets... I have not gotten to the bowls, yet.

 

[grafted branch]

They won't... they are dead. I am sorry but I am just not following you... my bad! By the way, I am currently looking at the trumpets... I have not gotten to the bowls, yet.

The trumpets aren’t specifically called plagues but I think it’s reasonable to conclude they describe various events that closely resemble events that are called plagues elsewhere.

I’m trying to explain myself the best I can, I tend to look at interpretations as having a probability of being correct, because it’s obvious to me that no person has been given complete understanding of all the scriptures, including myself. I place an extremely low probability of literal plagues (trumpets or bowls) occurring in the future due to Revelation 22:18.

Ok, are you of the opinion that the Revelation 22:18 warning hasn’t been applied to anyone so far, and will only be applicable at some future point?

 

[CTK]

The trumpets aren’t specifically called plagues but I think it’s reasonable to conclude they describe various events that closely resemble events that are called plagues elsewhere.

I’m trying to explain myself the best I can, I tend to look at interpretations as having a probability of being correct, because it’s obvious to me that no person has been given complete understanding of all the scriptures, including myself. I place an extremely low probability of literal plagues (trumpets or bowls) occurring in the future due to Revelation 22:18.

Ok, are you of the opinion that the Revelation 22:18 warning hasn’t been applied to anyone so far, and will only be applicable at some future point?

Sorry, I am still on the 5th trumpet ... but again, from what I see or I think I see, is the first 4 trumpets are indeed symbolic - they are clearly not literal.... if you think they are literal, please comment on why you believe them to be so.... Revelation is absolutlly / absolutely, so far, no where near the complexity of Daniel. But that is also because Daniel helps interpret much of Revelation. I don't think it would be possible to interpret Revelation unless Daniel is interpreted.... Which also means one cannot possibly interpret Daniel by looking at Revelation - it would never work.... Daniel must be given and interpreted first.

 

[Douggg]

It seems to me that the trumpet judgements / warnings are not physical destruction events but may be the final series of warnings from God before the literal bowl judgements are thrown down on the earth...

The term trumpet "judgments" is not actually what is written in the text.

It is more accurate to describe them as trumpet "plagues" because of the use of the word "plagues" in Revelation 9:20.

When viewed as trumpet "plagues", then it is readily evident that when the seven trumpets are sounded the result is physical.

The vials of God's wrath intensify the physical impact done previously by the the seven trumpets.

 

[ewq1938]

The term trumpet "judgments" is not actually what is written in the text.

It is more accurate to describe them as trumpet "plagues" because of the use of the word "plagues" in Revelation 9:20.

Nope. That is directed at the plagues the 4 angels and their horsemen army send out. It is not something applied to that trump, or any trump for that matter. The trumps are not judgments or plagues. They simply sound, and things happen which is the historical use and meaning of trumpets in military terminology.

 

[Galgal]

The 6th trumpet is the opening of the eastern gate of the Third Temple on Yom Teruah, the Feast of Trumpets, on the 1st day of the 7th month of Tishrei. On this day, the "full number of the Gentiles", "the glory of the Lord", "the messengers of Christ", "the elect from the four winds", "the Philadelphia church" of Revelation will begin to enter the eastern gate of the Temple. The 7th trumpet is the closing of the eastern gate on Yom Kippur, on the 10th day. The moment of closing the eastern gate will be that "twinkling of an eye" when the status of the people who entered these gates will change: they will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ at the Second Coming.