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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Just giving you some spiritual understanding , you asked what it meant , I answered.
It’s got more to do with the topic than your and Behold...blah,blah all over threads.
And tell me.
What has all your arguing with Behold got to do with the topic in hand?
Personal abuse has got nothing to do with the topic....
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
What did Jesus mean when he said you must be born again?
He says that we need the Holy Spirit to give birth to a new spiritual life within us. In fact, the phrase “born again” more literally means “born from above.” Just as your mother gave physical birth to you, if you want to have eternal life, you need the Holy Spirit to give you a spiritual birth.
A Living spiritual birth = by divine heart revelation.
Your spirit must be reborn = by divine heart revelation.
Anyone can say they believe..
..we must be reborn in our spirit by divine heart revelation.= Living spiritual birth....in Jesus Name...Amen!
“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
He says that we need the Holy Spirit to give birth to a new spiritual life within us. In fact, the phrase “born again” more literally means “born from above.” Just as your mother gave physical birth to you, if you want to have eternal life, you need the Holy Spirit to give you a spiritual birth.
A Living spiritual birth = by divine heart revelation.
Your spirit must be reborn = by divine heart revelation.
Anyone can say they believe..
..we must be reborn in our spirit by divine heart revelation.= Living spiritual birth....in Jesus Name...Amen!
James 2:19
“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You must have lived a very sheltered life.
YOu make four accusations here and do not back them up with anything resembling a scripture verse to support them.
In this disagreement, I am willing to bet that you would be considered a 3 point calvinist.
I added nothing to the verses I posted.
There are numerous denominations that are not reformed theology who hold to 3,4 or all 5 points.
Though I do not expect any answers from you on this thread as you said you are through,
I will be watching this thread to see how you prove your four accusations with the bible and not merely your eisegetical commentary on the bible. You never did show from Scripture that Jacob in romans 9 is representative of all Israel. Nor did you define what nation (s) are represented by Esau!
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
If one used exegesis here, they would see that Jacob and Esau are mere examples to show that it was God who chooses and it is God who elects. Not some mythical allegorical jacob=Israel and Esau= ??????????????????
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I hope you let Behold know the same.
Well please enlighten me on this spiritual understanding. I am sure very few here have the insight into the spiritual meanings you see.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I’ve already posted what it meant..read my post again?
Here it is?
I know 100% that I am Born Again and was chosen by God..the Holy Spirit gave birth to my spirit, he penetrated my spirit and it was reborn ,his seed remains in my spirit, permanently.
The seed is the Living Holy Spirit, that’s whose seed remains in our spirit.
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God, he witness that truth to my spirit all day every day..
He testifies with my spirit that my salvation is 100 % secure.,.his Spirit is also Alive and Active in me...I’m under the authority of the Spirit and in Gods will.
He speaks Gods truth out through me..the Holy Spirit that is.
Good morning Elected,
I'm only on this one....I could only handle one at a time.
Safe zones have their place. Persons could speak without being disturbed by those that do not agree.
I think it must surely get boring at times....but a member could always begin a thread in an open forum so it's really OK.
But you're bringing up one of the points I always make regarding reformed doctrine.
You say that my verses SUGGEST that man is to seek God.
I think you mean that to say that they really do not state that man is to seek God.
This, to me, is adding to scripture.
Every single verse I posted, and there are many many more, state that God WANTS us to seek Him....
Matthew said we are to SEEK GOD first.
Jesus is standing at the door knocking...it's US on the other side that must open the door.
Jesus does NOT push it open (Irresistible grace).
So YOUR method of reconciliation is to state that the verse only suggest that we are able to seek God.
I'll post some more, for whatever it's worth:
Deuteronomy 4:29
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Psalm 34:10
The young lions suffer want and hunger; but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing.
Lamentations 3:25
The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.
There are so many more but I'll stop here.
God reveals Himself to all men.
Romans 1:19-20
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
From the creation of the world God has made Himself be known to man.....
This is why NO MAN will have an excuse when he stands before God.
It's up to us to CHOOSE to believe in God or not....to serve Him or not.
God gives to all men the same opportunity...He is not a respector of persons
Acts 10:34-35
34Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
Paul states that God does not show partiality. There are several verses that state this.
Paul states who can be saved: Those who fear (respect) God and do what is right...
THEY WILL BE WELCOMED by God.
Joshua: CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE.
Joshua 24:15
I don't care for systematic theology although it does have its place.
I don't think the bible could be cut up into pieces except for specific teachings.
I think I just did this in my reply above....going from an idea and using others to support it.
But I wouldn't study this way.
I maintain that the bible is a complete thought.
I believe I answered this above.
If there's a verse that states that man cannot choose God...then we have a serious conflict in scripture.
And this is one of the reasons I say that calvinism creates conflicts in the scripture which cannot exist or scripture would become worthless.
This is how it's reconciled Elected:
Romans 3:11 is speaking to something very specific in the OT.
Paul is saying that not only Gentiles are sinners but also the Jews.
This is referring to Psalm 14:1-3, 53:1-3, and others and Isaiah 59:7-8
Wickedness had flourished in Israel.
Just as in the times of Noah.
God does not condemn EVERY single Israelite, just as He also saved Noah.
BUT...sin had come to rule generally speaking.
It's interesting that the reformed will not take John 3.16 literally when it states that GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD.....
saying that THE WORLD does not mean the world.....
But Romans 3:11 reformed WILL take literally when it states that not even ONE MAN will seek after God.
If the above is not correct then we have to concede that the bible is flawed...
UNLESS YOU can come up with a better resolution.
I claim to be a mainline, traditional Christian - as those in the early church.
But if you believe the 5 points,,,WHY are you not a Calvinist?
Man is depraved. Every Christian believes this.
But INABILITY?
Where in the bible does it state man is UNABLE to seek God?
There's a difference between being depraved and being UNABLE.
The entire point of Jesus coming to us was to offer the redeeming sacrifice AND to teach us how to reach God.
I posted many verses showing we are able to choose God.
Free will is also true but it'll come up in irresistible grace, although it IS throughout all scripture, as in the verses I've posted.
I'll wait for your reply and then I say we move on to Unconditional Election.
Just saw this.
I'll reply to the first 3:
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”
Every Christian will agree that before salvation the above is absolutely true.
But, notice, it states nothing about not being ABLE to seek God.
Titus 1:15-16
to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
Same Elected. We all agree. But no mention of ability.
So we have to accept the many verses that state that we are to seek God.
Ecclesiastes 9:3
Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Do YOU believe the above? We're full of evil and then we die?
What happened to being born again??!
I did read all the verses. They're all the same... I think the problem here is the difference between being evil, depraved...
AND whether or not man can seek God.
We all agree that man is evil unless born again.
Yes. God directs our steps....
But do we listen?
TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART....
LEAN NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING...
IN ALL YOUR WAY ACKNOWLEDGE HIM...
AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATH.
Proverbs 3
So,,,do we always listen?
Do we always take the path the Lord directs us to?
God directs our paths....
He would keep us on track...
if only we obeyed every time.
You've confused "exegesis" with Hyper Calvinism... same as usual.
Now notice this...
You teach that people, everyone, ""have NO FREE WILL""" ......yet here you are by free will Choice.... posting.
"well behold, i meant that the hyper-calvinism 5 points teach that humans are too depraved to choose CHRIST">.....but they can choose Allah, and Scientology, and The Buddha, and the "theory of evolution".....by their God given faith...
"see behold" they can have faith in all that......... but they just can't have any faith in CHRIST, unless God forced it down their throat..(caused to believe).... as my "hyper calvinism" taught me to tell everyone.""
Yet, Jesus said ...>>"you ...refuse... to come to me so that you might have life"..
And a verse you might have read says......"choose this day, whom you will serve"...
See that "choose this day""... .and notice the.... "REFUSE to come to JESUS"?.........that is FREE WILL choosing NOT TO BELIEVE.........when it could have, but "CHOSE TO REFUSE".. and that is "choosing to follow"....= Free Will.
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Hello again friend!
Firstly, I would like to wish you a blessed day today - I hope that this discussion can be fruitful! Let's start with some points of agreement!
I agree completely. A verse does not create a solid foundation for a biblical view - it should be the whole of Scripture which guides ones steps! This is actually a rather convenient segway into my first train of thought! Before we discuss things very far, I believe (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong ... I often am
) that in order to have a fruitful conversation about beliefs, we first need to define what proper, and improper, biblical interpretation is consistent of. Here are the rules of interpretation I believe that we are to approach the Scriptures with:
Faithful Interpretation
A faithful interpretation of the Scriptures pays attention to some of the finer details of the text, such as taking the time to note how certain words and phrases were interpreted by the people of that era and time period. For example, "Dawn we now our gay apparel" did not mean that people of that day and age were dressing in "Pride" clothing; while the same word, it carries a much different connotation today. The same is true for some words and phrases in the Scriptures - by faithful interpretation, I simply mean to uncover what the author intended to convey by focusing on the context behind certain words and phrases. Additionally, faithful interpretation pays close attention to the flow of thought and grammatical patterns of a passage
Taking the Genre into consideration is also a large part of faithful interpretation. For example, take this poem:
Dreams by Langston Hughes
Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly.
Hold fast to dreams
For when dreams go
Life is a barren field
Frozen with snow.
Do dreams actually die? Does Langston believe that life is an actual, physical bird with a broken wing? If so, how could life also be a barren, frozen icy field? Of course, no one interprets this poem in such a manner; we understand that, as a poem, it speaks more to allegory in this particular occasion. Here's an example of a literal poem - same genre, different contextual meaning
If- by Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
Here we see advise in a poetic format that IS to be taken quite literally - literally keeping yourself calm when being blamed, literally trusting yourself when men doubt, literally dealing truthfully when others lie. ALSO a poem... one literal, the other allegorical.
All this is to say that genre matters in interpreting Scripture faithfully, and to interpret it in a way as it was MEANT to be interpreted. The Scriptures contain sections of poetry, prophecy, apocalyptic literature, instruction, and so on, each with its own conventions that inform the way a text should be understood. Poetry likely contains figures and images that reference things beyond just their physical forms, as seen above. Narrative is likely just relaying a series of events, and so on.
Responsible Interpretation
Secondly, I believe that we must interpret the Scriptures in a responsible manner; simply put, Scripture should interpret Scripture, as it is our only infallible rule of faith and practice. The ultimate objective of Scriptural interpretation is to discern what God Himself has to say about who He is, and what He has done for us in Christ. As you said it would be alright with you if I quoted it, here's what the Confession of Faith says about Biblical interpretation (I'll place quotations from Confessions in RED, and Scripture quotations in GREEN, to make it a bit easier to see which is which - this summarizes rather well what I am trying to say above - however, as I stated previously, you can feel free to ignore the Confessional quotations and simply read my posts / Scripture quotation if you wish!
The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 1.6-7
The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. (a)
Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word (b): and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. (c)
All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all (d): yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them (e)
(a) - Gal. 1:8-9 , 2 Thes. 2:2 , 2 Timothy 3:15-17
(b) - John 6:45 , 1 Cor. 2:9-12
(c) - 1 Cor. 11:13-14 ; 14:26 ; 40
With all this said, I would first like to ensure that we are on the same page when it comes to rightful interpretation of the Scriptures - would these "rules of interpretation" be agreeable to you?
Looking forwards to your response! Thank you for the patience!
Firstly, I would like to wish you a blessed day today - I hope that this discussion can be fruitful! Let's start with some points of agreement!
I agree completely. A verse does not create a solid foundation for a biblical view - it should be the whole of Scripture which guides ones steps! This is actually a rather convenient segway into my first train of thought! Before we discuss things very far, I believe (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong ... I often am
) that in order to have a fruitful conversation about beliefs, we first need to define what proper, and improper, biblical interpretation is consistent of. Here are the rules of interpretation I believe that we are to approach the Scriptures with:Faithful Interpretation
A faithful interpretation of the Scriptures pays attention to some of the finer details of the text, such as taking the time to note how certain words and phrases were interpreted by the people of that era and time period. For example, "Dawn we now our gay apparel" did not mean that people of that day and age were dressing in "Pride" clothing; while the same word, it carries a much different connotation today. The same is true for some words and phrases in the Scriptures - by faithful interpretation, I simply mean to uncover what the author intended to convey by focusing on the context behind certain words and phrases. Additionally, faithful interpretation pays close attention to the flow of thought and grammatical patterns of a passage
Taking the Genre into consideration is also a large part of faithful interpretation. For example, take this poem:
Dreams by Langston Hughes
Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly.
Hold fast to dreams
For when dreams go
Life is a barren field
Frozen with snow.
Do dreams actually die? Does Langston believe that life is an actual, physical bird with a broken wing? If so, how could life also be a barren, frozen icy field? Of course, no one interprets this poem in such a manner; we understand that, as a poem, it speaks more to allegory in this particular occasion. Here's an example of a literal poem - same genre, different contextual meaning
If- by Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
Here we see advise in a poetic format that IS to be taken quite literally - literally keeping yourself calm when being blamed, literally trusting yourself when men doubt, literally dealing truthfully when others lie. ALSO a poem... one literal, the other allegorical.
All this is to say that genre matters in interpreting Scripture faithfully, and to interpret it in a way as it was MEANT to be interpreted. The Scriptures contain sections of poetry, prophecy, apocalyptic literature, instruction, and so on, each with its own conventions that inform the way a text should be understood. Poetry likely contains figures and images that reference things beyond just their physical forms, as seen above. Narrative is likely just relaying a series of events, and so on.
Responsible Interpretation
Secondly, I believe that we must interpret the Scriptures in a responsible manner; simply put, Scripture should interpret Scripture, as it is our only infallible rule of faith and practice. The ultimate objective of Scriptural interpretation is to discern what God Himself has to say about who He is, and what He has done for us in Christ. As you said it would be alright with you if I quoted it, here's what the Confession of Faith says about Biblical interpretation (I'll place quotations from Confessions in RED, and Scripture quotations in GREEN, to make it a bit easier to see which is which - this summarizes rather well what I am trying to say above - however, as I stated previously, you can feel free to ignore the Confessional quotations and simply read my posts / Scripture quotation if you wish!
The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 1.6-7
The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. (a)
Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word (b): and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. (c)
All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all (d): yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them (e)
(a) - Gal. 1:8-9 , 2 Thes. 2:2 , 2 Timothy 3:15-17
(b) - John 6:45 , 1 Cor. 2:9-12
(c) - 1 Cor. 11:13-14 ; 14:26 ; 40
With all this said, I would first like to ensure that we are on the same page when it comes to rightful interpretation of the Scriptures - would these "rules of interpretation" be agreeable to you?
Looking forwards to your response! Thank you for the patience!
Is anything more dishonest, then a puppet disciple of "the 5 points".. Hyper Calvinism, pretending to use the Scriptures, honestly.
Its a unfortunate situation, that mind blinded disciples of "TULIP">.. pretend that when they read the NT as John Calvin's doctrine, they are "understanding the Scriptures".
Here is how that actually works out...
You have a demonic theologian, who is a Cross Denying Heretic... and his Disciples (Calvinists, the "5 point" crowd", believe that His Satanic teaching is the NEW Testament, and is "real Christianity".
Satan loves Calvinism, as Its one of His finest False Doctrines.
Excuse me, friend - not to sound rude, but I was actually discussing this with someone else. I have avoided interacting with you for the most part due to, if I am being rather honest, the fact that I feel I will not be a very good representative of Christ if I engage in discussion with you. I do not wish to sound angry, spiteful, proud, or vain; nor do I wish to come across as someone who "knows it all"; however, I feel discussing it with you, based on this attitude, would not edify either of us. So please excuse me if I just ignore these attempts at engagement.
Have a blessed day!
Think of it like this for the sake of your own clarification, ....."friend".
You are on MY THREAD......so, what you post on My Thread, is available to anyone to respond to... = Mods, Members,...
All are welcome to respond, anywhere, everywhere..
Posts are not "private conversations"... as you have a PM box for that.
Do you understand how a forum works now?/?
Comprehend?
Just nod...
So, as i was telling you..
Its dishonest for a Hyper_Cavlinist, TULIP seller...., to pretend that what John The DEVIL Calvin teaches, that they try to sell to real Christians to try to lead them into demonic Hyper-Calvinism...... is "Bible" or "NT Truth".
See it?
I believe you do.@Mjh29
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To be perfectly honest, no. I do not. Nor do I see many fruits of the spirit in any of your posts.
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control.
Where are these in your responses to others? You'll excuse me if I mute you now - no offense meant, but your posts are very hard to follow for me, and are not at all edifying. I truly hope that the Spirit works in your life in such a way that you begin to manifest such fruits that are of Him - I pray the same for my own life as well.
Have a blessed rest of your day.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Not sure if you know this, there is an ignore button, if you go to their profile page, under their avatar is an ignore ..click on it ...then you will be in heaven...and free ....ahhhhhhhh lovely peace and no interruptions....bliss.
Thank you! I do not like to block people personally, but there are some who are ruled by a spirit of hatred and malice that is not of our Lord Christ ... and who conversation with does little to advance Christ or his Kingdom.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
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