Ritajanice
Born-Again
No Sister, I know you aren’t doing that, if God is calling you to minister to them , as seems to be the case, ..then you obviously obey his instructions....God Bless.
ONCE….ONCE….(OSAS)….ONCE!!!
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, this was the typical argument they made in regard to OSAS. They also taught salvation by works, along with multiple other false doctrines. ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS. Are you seeing the red flag yet?
There you go again. Making judgment calls that you are unqualified to make. Only the Lord can infallibly judge the hearts of men. Do you know what the Bible says about slander?
Proverbs 10:18 - He who conceals hatred has lying lips, and he who spreads slander is a fool.
Ephesians 4:31 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
Colossians 3:8 - But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
1 Peter 2:1 - Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
Paul is talking about those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (descriptive of lost unbelievers) This has nothing to do with your broad-brushed slanderous remarks towards OSAS believers. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, we also see a similar list of sins that are practiced by lost unbelievers - 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous (did you see that?) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. See the contrast between the unrighteous and the righteous?
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
sin...Greek hamartia
Strong's - miss the mark
Thayer - failing to hit the mark
So the idea of sin means there is a goal or aim man is suppose to be aiming at yet man misses it. That goal or aim is to be obedient to the will of God, obedient to his word. And when one misses that goal or aim, he thereby transgresses against God's will, against God's commands given to man to obey.
God forgives sin (1 Jn 1:9)but receiving that forgiveness is conditional upon man's obedience to God's will. (Acts 2:38)
Hello @Ernest T. Bass,
The goal in that day, was hitting all the requirements of Yahavah by the laws and commandments given to Israel. There was some people who were blameless according to the Law, though they had their sins paid for by sacrifice. Today Jesus Christ, and believing on him, as the one whom gets us to the Father/Yahavah, and thus from there we have relationship by and through the holy spirit that is given to us by Yahavah in our hearts through faith. He is the one whom hit the mark flawlessly. Those we still fall short, he gets us to the Father.
The sin problem has been taken care of due to Jesus hitting the mark. He hit the mark for all people in order to fix the sin problem. He has done this in order for the Father to reconciled the world back to himself, and while "everything is lawful, but not everything is beneficial." All people now choose to either eat from the tree of life, or the tree of good and evil.
From what I understand believers to love God and to love others - and it's only fulfilled by abiding in the Lord Jesus.
Praise be to the Lord Yeshua/Jesus, and His Father, Yahavah. May our fellowship be with the Father and the Son, by and through the holy spirit given.
Remembering a very ANCIENT revealing…
Adam created and made (outside of Gods Garden)…
Adam put IN Gods Garden.
Adam Freely Offered to EAT from ANY Tree IN the Garden….EXCEPT ONE TREE.
Adam WARNED to NOT Eat from ONE express Tree, and REVEALED the consequences thereof “IF” Adam freely chose to EAT from “THAT” particular ONE express Tree.
BIG PICTURE…
God OFFERED manKIND…”something” to EXPRESSLY “EAT”, and revealed the “consequences” FOR EATING what God has OFFERED.
There IS a distinct difference between “TASTING” and “EATING”.
A “TASTER” is Blessed by the Spirit of God…With a measured Gift of FAITH.
TASTING can be spit out and rejected BY that person and that person become FALLEN FROM FAITH.
An “EATER” is Bless by the Spirit of God….
With the fullness / WHOLENESS (body, soul, spirit) Gift of: SALVATION…
EATING “consequences” (of being MADE WHOLE / body, soul, spirit of the man)…
IS MADE and KEPT “Forever” MADE WHOLE, BY the POWER OF God. And THEY become a son of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Adam created and made (outside of Gods Garden)…
Adam put IN Gods Garden.
Adam Freely Offered to EAT from ANY Tree IN the Garden….EXCEPT ONE TREE.
Adam WARNED to NOT Eat from ONE express Tree, and REVEALED the consequences thereof “IF” Adam freely chose to EAT from “THAT” particular ONE express Tree.
BIG PICTURE…
God OFFERED manKIND…”something” to EXPRESSLY “EAT”, and revealed the “consequences” FOR EATING what God has OFFERED.
There IS a distinct difference between “TASTING” and “EATING”.
A “TASTER” is Blessed by the Spirit of God…With a measured Gift of FAITH.
TASTING can be spit out and rejected BY that person and that person become FALLEN FROM FAITH.
An “EATER” is Bless by the Spirit of God….
With the fullness / WHOLENESS (body, soul, spirit) Gift of: SALVATION…
EATING “consequences” (of being MADE WHOLE / body, soul, spirit of the man)…
IS MADE and KEPT “Forever” MADE WHOLE, BY the POWER OF God. And THEY become a son of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Kept by God CONDITIONALLY "through faith". One receives the promise of eternal life through faith and kepts it CONDITIONALLY through faith. The faithless have no such promise of eternal life. No where does God force people against their will to have faith and keep faith.
Paul of his free will kept the faith (2 Tim 4:7) others of their free will cast aside their faith (1 Tim 5:12) or allow false teachings overthrow their faith (2 Tim 2:18; 1 Tim 4:1) or lose their faith due to love of the things of the world (1 Tim 6:10)
Cdristians do sin, as Simon and Peter when he denied Christ...."If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 Jn 1:8. So does Peter's sinning prove he was never really saved?
Then no one is born again for men sin, Christians and non-Christians alike "miss the mark" and sin.
So a person can believe, choose to be a follower of Christ but then choose to sin and become lost. Their sinning does not prove their never really believed or never really followed Christ. One cannot quit some thing what they never really did...one cannot fall from grace (Gal 5:4) if he was never in grace.
And people can choose to believe and then stop but their stopping does not in anyway proves they never really believed.
1 Tim 4:1 people depart from the faith, so as you say one cannot depart from what they were not a part of. Hence one can be of the faith and depart from it.
1 Tim 4:1
"some shall depart from the faith," one cannot depart from what they never really had
Gal 5:4 "Ye are severed from Christ" one cannot be severed from what they were never really a part of
James 5:19
"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;" one cannot err from what they never really had,
Heb 6:6
"and then have fallen away,"
2 Pet 1:10
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
one cannot fall from what he never attained.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Taken:
Christians People are warned of falling from FAITH.
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No, Paul and Peter warned CHRISTIANS over and over again about falling away, being seduced by false teachings
People, non-Christians cannot fall from the faith they never had, the lost cannot fall for they are already fallen.
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No, Paul and Peter warned CHRISTIANS over and over again about falling away, being seduced by false teachings
People, non-Christians cannot fall from the faith they never had, the lost cannot fall for they are already fallen.
What is SIN? Missing the mark?
What is THE “MARK”…?
IF you were an Ancient Hebrew…
IF you were an Historical Tribesman (of a Tribe of Israel….}
Missing the MARK….”WAS” failing to adhere TO the Mosaic Law.
Failure to adhere TO the Law…
HAD consequences AND A PROVISION to be FORGIVEN ….BY…TAKING their “qualified” ‘SIN OFFERING” TO the TEMPLE and their OFFERING be Burned ON the Temple Altar.
Historically…(2,000 + years ago)….God OFFERED….ALL men OF the world … A New “BETTER TESTAMENT”… For manKIND to TAKE and BE ASSURED of Forgiveness and Allegiance IN belief IN the Lord God and WITH the Lord God FOREVER.
(Hebrew 7: 22)
Thanks be to God FOR His “offering”…OF
Gods LAMB, given For the assured Forgiveness of Every man WHO reaches out and TAKES Gods Offering….TO BE WITH THEIR Lord God Always and Forever.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Romans 1 and 2 Paul proves that both Gentile and Jew are under sin and those under sin are in need of justification. Paul's point in Rom 3:1-20 was to prove the Law of Moses that was given to the Jews could not provided total complete justification. Hence the law of Moses is not the solution for those under sin. That old law that was given to the Jew left the Jew just as unjustified as the Gentile who had no law of their own as the Jew (Rom 3:9)
Christ provided the solution for all those under sin in His NT gospel that DOES provide complete justification unlike the law of Moses. Those then that are obedient to the gospel will be justified yet that does not mean the Christian will be live perfectly sinless lives. The Christian does sin thereby misses the mark and God has provided the avenue of repentance for the Christian to be forgiven of sinning/missing the mark. As long as the Christian CONDITIONALLY and CONTNUALLY walks in the light, then the blood of Christ continues to wash away all the Christians sins. he Christian turns from walking in the light his sins will not be washed away and he falls into lost state with his unforgiven sin, 1 Jn 1:7. Forgiveness of sins is never UNconditional.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Uh….there ARE Christ followers, Christ believers, Christ Converted…..
WHO….do NOT call themselves “CHRISTIANS”….!!
Jews who follow, believe, IN Jesus the Christ, “coined” their “own” Term….They call themselves “Messianic Jews”…
They do NOT call themselves Christians!
Did you not KNOW, they who coined the term “CHRISTIAN” were unbelievers? A term “unbelievers” of Christ Jesus calling men who were Following Jesus’ teachings
The 12 disciples Jesus CHOSE, were given the TASK to PREACH TO THE JEWS.
Jesus did not mention the term CHRISTIAN.
Saul / Paul was a disciple Jesus CHOSE, and given the TASK to PREACH TO: the JEWS, the GENTILES and kings.
Jesus did not mention the term CHRISTIAN.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
As I pointed out the mark, the aim for man is doing the will of God, obey God's commands. Fear God and keep His commands for this is the whole (duty) of man, Eccl 12:13. Hence sinning is missing the mark in obeying God's will, sinning is not keeping His commands.
The Christian can CONDITIONALLY find forgiveness of his sins of his missing the mark by repenting of his sins and God forgives, (Rev 2:5; Acts 8:22). Forgiveness of sins is NOT something that happens automatically, unconditionally for the Christian.....God's forgiveness is conditional upon repentance for having missed the mark.
You are confusing…
MEN…tasting the word of God.
With The Body of Jesus being a Gift God Offered.
Two different “entities”.
Two different “contexts”.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
What are these followers of Christ if they are not Christians?
Acts 11:26
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
called is from the Greek chrēmatizō refers to something from God
Christian is a name Divnely given.
Young's Literal Translation of Acts 11:26:
"and having found him, he brought him to Antioch, and it came to pass that they a whole year did assemble together in the assembly, and taught a great multitude, the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians."
"A number of commentators contend that the name "Christian" was originally a title of contempt that the enemies of the Church gave to the disciples, in contrast to this view, Reese notes that the word "called" in the above verse is almost always used in the New Testament to mean "divinely called" ( Mat_2:12 ; Luk_2:26 ; Act_10:22 ; Heb_8:5 ; Heb_11:17 ; Heb_12:25 ). God Himself says that the name is very honorable ( 1Pe_4:16 "but in that name let him glorify God"). "We may be sure that Christians, followers of Messiah (the Christ) is not a name likely to have been given by Jews" (P.P. Comm. p. 359). "To whom Christ was the interpretation of Messiah, and who would not have bestowed the name on those whom they despised as apostates" (Vincent p. 506). "The thought is Jewish, denoting the Anointed One; the root, Christ, is Greek; the termination, ianoi, is Latin" (Boles p. 185). "From the Latin form of the word Christians, followers of Christ (like Herodians, followers of Herod)" (P.P. Comm. p. 359)." Dunagans Commentary on Acts
Hence Paul and Peter did warn Christians over and over again about falling away, being seduced by false teachers. No need for such warnings and adminishments if falling away were impossible but apostasy is very much a possible reality for the Christian.
Again, logically one cannot fall from grace if he were never in grace to begin with. One cannot fall from a tree he never was in to begin with.
Hello @Ernest T. Bass,
Yes, I agree. There was however Paul also mentioned to those under the Law he became as one under the Law, and those without the Law, he became as one without the Law. There was the bride of Christ, in that day which was to be rescued and there was those who were under those Laws even though we find today, that law was abolished and nailed to the cross having been fulfilled by the Lord Yeshua and his death, and raising again, however in that day still he was to come back and rescue that bride, and in the revelation, there was mentioning from Jesus. Such as straighten up or be wiped out.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
I am not sure where this is suppose to be going, my point was that complete total forgiveness of sins under the NT is 100% CONDITIONAL upon the lost sinner repenting of his sins (Acts 2:38) and then thereafter CONDITIONALLY CONTINUING to walk in the light (which requires repentance when the Christian sins) to have all his sin continually washed away. This is something that was not available to Jews living under the OT law of Moses.
I am a Gentile…me missing the mark of obedience to the letter of Mosaic Law (which by the way Christ Jesus fulfilled)…
IS IRRELEVANT regarding me!
What applied to me….WAS….WHAT God REQUIRED “OF ME” to Have a forever assured relationship WITH the Lord God Almighty…
NOT mysterious…
My natural spirit in my heart WAS to BELIEVE IN the Heavenly Spirit God AND the One He sent….AND for me to CONFESS TO the One He sent….MY OWN Heartful Belief…
That has NOTHING whatsoever to do with all the TERMS and CONDITIONS and LAWS and ACCUSATIONS men toss about.
I expressly fulfilled Gods Requirement According to Gods Order and Way….to establish a ONCE and FOREVER relationship WITH the Lord God and TRUST the Lord God IS FAITHFUL and established ONCE and FOREVER His works IN Me.
That simple.
Glory to God,
Taken
Hello @Ernest T. Bass,
Oh, I am someone who believes all of the sin has been taken care of. And all people are forgiven of their sins because of Yeshua. What they do with that information is totally on them at this point once they understand that. I tell people today, that their sins are forgiven. Just as Jesus told the man who was paralyzed that his sins were forgiven, take your mat and walk because telling this to people is easy. Though you may differ with me, I believe the payment of sin was on the Lord Yeshua. He did that for the world, and on behalf of his Father for it was his Fathers will he be the sacrifice for sin once and for all time. Jesus is not repeatedly dying over and over and over. The only unforgivable sin is simply, denying the holy spirit. I've talked to people who do so deny that holy spirit, they don't look towards the things of God, however they look towards the things of the flesh instead. There is the condition of simply, being faithful, and seeking out God, and he rewards those who do so, but the sin of people have been taken care of; otherwise Yeshua, didn't pay for sin and he is continuously dying over and over and over again.
Faith comes first, then a change of mind comes after. So perhaps we are on the same wave length just different understanding. For the Jews it was repentance and faith towards God.
A Christian is a follower of Jesus’ teachings.
Does following automatically mean believing?
No.
Are there men who ATTEND Christian Churches WHO DO NOT BELIEVE?
Yes
Do men call all people who ATTEND a Christian Church … A Christian?
Typically Yes.
Can a man who has ATTENDED a Christian Church…stop Attending…Yes…Attend a MOSQUE or a SYNAGOGUE and Pledge to Convert to either of those religions?
Yes
Calling oneself by the TERM Christian IS NOT what God requires to become MADE CONVERTED and WHOLE by the Power of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
SIN….”IS” non belief “IN” God and the one God Sent.
BELIEF…”IS” a man BELIEVING from his “natural spirit”, WHICH “IS” a mans “natural truth in his Heart”.
A man calling on the Lord Jesus (Gods intercessor) AND CONFESSING to Him…
The mans TRUE Heartful (natural spirits’ belief) IN God and the One God Sent….
“IS” that man FREELY, WILLINGLY, exercising his own FREEWILL to ACCEPT Gods OFFERING….TO BE MADE “WHOLE”….
* He WHO IS ALL KNOWING…verifies the Confession BE True.
* He WHO IS ALMIGHtY;
* FORGIVES….for having HAD not believed
* ACCEPTS the BODY…DEAD, crucified with Jesus.
* RESTORES the SOUL (saved unto forever LIFE).
* QUICKENS the natural spirit…Giving Gods SEED to “rebirth” the mans spirit, that IT SHALL LIVE FOREVER.
The “PROCESS” IS ONCE….
ONE Time…a man calls on the Lord to CONFESS his hearful belief.
ONE Time….a man REPENTS for have HAD not Believed.
ONE time Jesus willingly gave “HIS” body unto DEATH.
ONE time a man willingly gives “his” body unto Death.
ONE Time…the man is FORGIVEN for having HAD NOT believed.
ONE Time…the mans SOUL is “restored” (saved).
ONE TIME…the SEED of God enters the mans NATURAL SPIRIT and RE-BIRTHS the man spirit VIA the SEED OF GOD.
ONE TIME…:
The WORD of God,
The SEED of God,
The POWER of God,
ENTERS that mans born again spirit and KEEPS and FEEDS that man….FOREVER…
Do YOU NOT KNOW…
The WORD of God…IS Jesus, IS Truth, Life, IS Spirit, IS the Son of God?
The SEED of God…IS Christ, IS Spirit?
The POWER of God…IS Christ, IS Spirit?
The WISDOM of God..IS Christ, IS Spirit?
REALLY? Some of you BELIEVE…”receiving and maintaining and keeping…..”
The Lord Gods WORKS IN a human man, of Gods GIFT OF SALVATION… IS DEPENDENT on the “whims, power, carnal thoughts and works of a human man”?
So when Scripture says….Greater IS He that is “IN” you, than he that is in the world…
(I John 4:4)
IS NOT talking about the SPIRIT of God…Keeping ALL His Works IN A man…(the mans body, the mans soul, the mans spirit)…
FREE FROM SIN?
FREE FROM SIN “INDEED”…is another Scripture to NOT consider?
(John 8:36)
How about…WHOSOEVER IS born of God…
CAN NOT SIN…?
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Preaching THE Crucified body’s, THE Saved souls, THE Born Again spirits….CAN SIN…
(Ie…CAN EVER AGAIN…NOT believe IN God)…“IS” Patently FALSE….
NEVER….DOES Scripture teach a dead body, a saved soul, a quickened spirit….BECOMES “Restored BACK”…..TO its original OLD ALIVE UNBELIEVING CREATURE….
Speaking of persons in general, mindful beliefs, Christians, this or that denomination, IS a distraction WHEN Scripture is speaking expressly of CONFESSION of HEARTFUL BELIEF for a man to BECOME MADE “Converted” ONCE and Forever by the Power of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
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