Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[GodsGrace]

And I answered your error in thinking on this verse many times. It goes to your lack of skill in basic grammar.

And Jesus didn't say, "all who exercise their free will and believe on me will be saved". Please pay attention this time. this is a simple declaratory statement. It has nothing to do with free will or preestination. It just says who ever believes- will get saved. It says nothing about how one gets saved. But if you do no tknow this already, then I have to reevaluate your level of education.


And you have failed totally to try to prove your hypothesis here.

Oh boy.

Now your calvinist again.

John 3:16 is NOT a DESCRIPTIVE STATEMENT.

It's a PRESCRIPTIVE STATEMENT.

It's a Prescription on HOW TO BE SAVED.
It's not stating WHO is saved.

It plainly states that whosoever will believe will be saved.

Let me ask you RN:
WHY was the NT written?

WHY would God write a book to those that are ALREADY saved??

Why all the instruction and warnings?

IT WAS WRITTEN TO EVERYONE....
EVERYONE.....
TO TEACH EVERYONE HOW THEY COULD BE SAVED.

Romans 10:10-13
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”


Let's check out the grammar:

Verse 10 A person believes resulting in righteousness. We will soon be told HOW.

Verse 11 WHOEVER believes......NOT all those who believe in Him. Paul wanted to make sure that it was understood that the INVITATON WAS OPEN TO ALL.

Thus: WHOEVER BELIEVES.....anyone who wants to.

Verse 12 The Lord is LORD OF ALL. Abounding in riches for ALL WHO CALL ON HIM.
No caveats there.....Jesus is LORD OF ALL. He has gifts for ALL WHO CALL ON HIM.

Very simple grammar.
No greek necessary.
No hebrew necessary.
Plain English will do just fine.

Verse 13 WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE saved.

NOT were saved.....
WILL BE saved...future.

Yes. Grammar is important.
Pay attention to it.

If you even read these posts....

 

[GodsGrace]

Well I cannot speak for behold. He efuses to show form Scrikpture what he believes.

The elct of God are the ones god has chosen! He does the electing (choosing) and He chose individuals before the foundation of the word to be holy in Him.

As to who is and who isn't individually- that is way beyond my pay grade.

Please post some verses that state that God CHOOSES persons to be saved.

And if you're going to use Romans 9....
first go back to my post 268 and respond to it.

I've been waiting BTW....

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is very intellectually dishonest of you.
I spent half an hour posting a proper exegesis of Romans 9 and neither YOU nor anyone else responded to it.

You need to learn the difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

Wow. Why waste time responding to you!
Behold has listed more verses than you ever will !
Everyone on this thread uses scripture EXCEPT for the Calvinists !
And those they DO use do NOT support their belief system because they're easily explained away.

Lying is unbecoming of you. I do no tknow what he posts to others, but to me, 99% of his response is just a diatribe against Calvinism without supporting it by Scripture.

And in the rare times he does post a scripture it is faulty and grammatically incorrect.

Will wait for your reply to my verses showing how God wishes for mankind to SEEK HIM and how both the NT and the OT affirm this.
Thanks.

Will answer that when you answer this from Scripture:

Romans 3:9-18

King James Version

​

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

IK know you are not big on following grammar, but if you look at the couple of verses that speak of God placing eternity in peoples hearts, you will find they are subjunctive and not declaratory.

 

[GodsGrace]

See you are so twisted by your hatred you cannot even see the lies you spew!

I believe John 3:16, 100% But it says nothing about how or why or by what means a person believes.

You rpretend Calvinist response is just a lie. We do know only the predestined and chosen and elect get saved, for that is gods word on how people get saved.

You should go back to the 3rd grade to brush up on primary grammar. You clearly do not know how a sentence is constructed.

Ad hominem.
That's all you've got?

Post verses that support your unbiblical idea that God CHOOSES who will be saved.

The other member uses MANY verses.....
Please do the same.

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to learn the difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

Lying is unbecoming of you. I do no tknow what he posts to others, but to me, 99% of his response is just a diatribe against Calvinism without supporting it by Scripture.

And in the rare times he does post a scripture it is faulty and grammatically incorrect.

Will answer that when you answer this from Scripture:

Romans 3:9-18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

IK know you are not big on following grammar, but if you look at the couple of verses that speak of God placing eternity in peoples hearts, you will find they are subjunctive and not declaratory.

Grammar.

Yes.

I just wrote you a post on grammar.

But, alas, we're not discussing grammar here but the SOULS OF REAL PERSONS.

I'll await your verses supporting the fact that you believe that God CHOOSES who will be saved.

Thanks.

 

[Ritajanice]

Chosen and predestined to be Disciples For Christ on earth.

All Gory and Honour to God.

​

◄ John 15:16 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. New Living Translation You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. English Standard Version You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. Berean Standard Bible You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

John 15:16 Context​

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17These things I command you, that ye love one another. 18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to learn the difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

Lying is unbecoming of you. I do no tknow what he posts to others, but to me, 99% of his response is just a diatribe against Calvinism without supporting it by Scripture.

And in the rare times he does post a scripture it is faulty and grammatically incorrect.

Will answer that when you answer this from Scripture:

Romans 3:9-18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

IK know you are not big on following grammar, but if you look at the couple of verses that speak of God placing eternity in peoples hearts, you will find they are subjunctive and not declaratory.

Sorry RN
WHAT exactly do you want me to reply to?

Have we found another CONFLICT in the NT due to reformed theology?

Please clarify what I'm supposed to respond to.

Posting scripture sans any explanation as to the point is useless.

 

[Ritajanice]

Well I cannot speak for behold. He efuses to show form Scrikpture what he believes.

The elct of God are the ones god has chosen! He does the electing (choosing) and He chose individuals before the foundation of the word to be holy in Him.

As to who is and who isn't individually- that is way beyond my pay grade.

Are you saying, that you don’t know that Gods seed remains in you?

 

[Behold]

And Jesus didn't say, "all who exercise their free will and believe on me will be saved".

If you owned a bible, and didnt work for a cult, then you would know that its Paul who said "all who believe in me shall be saved".

What Jesus said is "All who believe in me i give unto you eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)..""

Now, Jesus does refute your demonic Calvinism, by saying...>>>"YOU= REFUSE to come to me, that you might (may) have life"

So, you are a very poor bible student.. who is confused about verses, about Salvation..... about Jesus, about Paul.... about Greek texts...

You are still trying to confess sin to try stay saved, as you dont even understand the Cross of Christ. @Ronald Nolette

See, when Jesus said.."YOU REFUSE to come to me...so that you might have LIFE".. then that is proving that the person has the FREE WILL... to refuse Jesus.... or to Trust.

That denies Hyper Calvinism's Total Depravity, doctrine of devil's).... and this Satanic Theology, owns your mind @Ronald Nolette , which is why you alway come back to the forum, every few days... and AGAIN try to SELL to the members here, this Devil's Doctrine.......His Theology.

See, God Makes Christians.

Calvin makes Calvinists... like you. @Ronald Nolette

 

[Behold]

I believe John 3:16, 100% But it says nothing about how or why or by what means a person believes.

You do not believe that God sent Jesus to the World of Sinners to offer them ALL Salvation, if they will believe.. John 3:16

You believe that God sent some of your family to Hell, because not all of them were chosen to believe, according to the DEVIL who wrote that THeology that owns your mind that you try to SELL here on this forum, and every weekend.

Just be honest next time.
Something new for you to try @Ronald Nolette

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The above is not for me....
but I started with the 5 points using
TOTAL DEPRAVITY which teaches than man is UNABLE to seek God.

Still waiting on your reply to my post no. 268
which proves beyond any doubt that God wishes/requires man to SEEK HIM.

Thanks for a reply.

Well that may have skipped my attention. I have been away and just had cancer surgery.

But all these verses arte about believers seeking Him and not for salvation but for blessing in the kingdom.

But once again, you fail to answer the questions how does one get to seek the Lord, by what means and what power?

You need to answer these statements from Scripture:

Romans 3:10-12

King James Version

​

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

:
Isaiah 1:6
From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

​

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 8:5-8

King James Version

​

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

See! the natural man in their unsaved state will not seek the Lord! The bible is clear on this.

So how does one seek the Lord?

John 6:44

King James Version

​

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

RN You're one of these posters that doesn't know if he's calvinist or not.
Look at that post up there.
Could a person be more confused?

No wonder you never reply to my posts....
You don't know what you believe.

I feel badly for Christianity....
I really do.
It seems to have lost all direction in Christians such as yourself.

Really,,,read you post a couple of times and then explain it in your own words.....
you won't be able to.

GOD DOES NOT MAKE EVERYTHING HAPPEN
BUT GOD ORDERS THINGS

What's the difference?

SOME ARE BY DESIGN
SOME BY OUR FREEDOM

What freedom if God orders everything?

Oi vey.

I know I am not a calvinist. I know the five points as they are called are 100% biblical. None of the opinions posted to date have altered the Scriptures I presented.

I fully know in whom and what I believe in.

I cannot help if you are so angry with the five points you cannot see the difference between God ordering some things and God does not make everything happen. I will add a caveat to this sentence. If god di dnot allow us to keep breathing, moving and hearts beating, we would do nothing.

God has ordained events and places for our lives as Philippians 2 says but He does not make us robots.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you even read these posts....

stop being so juvenile. You know I read you rposts. But you think differently because you come at my posts with a totally different bias and spiritual view.

Ad hominem.
That's all you've got?

Post verses that support your unbiblical idea that God CHOOSES who will be saved.

The other member uses MANY verses.....
Please do the same.

I have posted enormous amount of verses if you would bother to check. but to behold as he is so arrogant, condescending and a liar and accuser of the brethren, I respond as He does as Scripture command s us to in the proverbs.

 

[Behold]

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yet Paul never told anyone that they were too depraved to be able to trust in Christ.

Everyone can Trust in Christ.......but not all will do it.

Jesus said.....>>>"You REFUSE to come".... and that is their Free Will.

Jesus said """"""If i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will Draw ALL""".........but not all will come, because that is their FREE WILL.

John 3:16 says that God offers Christ to EVERYONE>.. "The World"... not just to those who are "pre-chosen" as LYING CALVINISM @THE HYPER CALVINISM VERSION, teaches.. that owns your mind, @Ronald Nolette

Noone is "too depraved to believe" as that is John Calvin's Garbage Theology..

2 Exceptions.. it can be that a person is so cult violated from an early age, that they are past being able to be led of the Spirit of God.

Many Muslims are like this...

Another exception is... when a person has become "inner hardened" to the call of God, .. because they have resisted it for too long, and now they can't be moved by the Holy Spirit, any longer.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Please post some verses that state that God CHOOSES persons to be saved.

And if you're going to use Romans 9....
first go back to my post 268 and respond to it.

I've been waiting BTW....

I have responded to your commentary on Romans 9 three times now. I suspect it is you who does not read poasts and then accuse me of not reading them.

But as t overses that show God does the choosing:

Ephesians 1:4-5

King James Version

​

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

He has chosen us before the foundation of the world.
He predestrinated us to be adopted. It is people he elects and predestines not events or standing.

Romans 8:29-30

King James Version

​

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I showed you from Greek phd scholars that foreknow is to pre plan. and it is us he foreknows and predestines.

Romans 9:21-24

King James Version

​

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Now you made your eisegetical commentary on romans 9, but Paul clearly disagrees with you because he closes with God having power over Jews and Gentiles.

And notice verse 22? Fitted is in the active which means someone makes fit these people for destruction (God)as shown in verse 21

And verse 23 the vessels of mercy were prepared ahead of time for glory!

Show me why these words as written should not be believed as written.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh boy.

Now your calvinist again.

John 3:16 is NOT a DESCRIPTIVE STATEMENT.

It's a PRESCRIPTIVE STATEMENT.

It's a Prescription on HOW TO BE SAVED.
It's not stating WHO is saved.

It plainly states that whosoever will believe will be saved.

Let me ask you RN:
WHY was the NT written?

WHY would God write a book to those that are ALREADY saved??

Why all the instruction and warnings?

THE NT was written for the believer to know how to live teh godly life God gave them and what constitutes righteous living.

We are to go into the world and share the gospel to bring in the harvest! We do not turn weeds to wheat or goats to sheep, we just go and gather the lost into the masters house!

I never said John 3:16 was a descriptive statement. Nor it is a prescriptive statement per se'. It is a simple declaratory statement that says whoever does A (believe) then B happens (get saved.) It says nothing on how or why or when or where or who gets saved, it just says that whoever does it will be saved.​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Grammar.

Yes.

I just wrote you a post on grammar.

But, alas, we're not discussing grammar here but the SOULS OF REAL PERSONS.

I'll await your verses supporting the fact that you believe that God CHOOSES who will be saved.

Thanks.

Yes we are talking about souls. But we must know what is being said (grammar) and how it is being said, for us to understand what God is communicating. No, Grammar is very critical. If God uses the futre tense and one insists it is present, they are wrong, plain and simple, And if God writes in a subjunctive, it is different than if He wrote it in the Aorist.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry RN
WHAT exactly do you want me to reply to?

Have we found another CONFLICT in the NT due to reformed theology?

Please clarify what I'm supposed to respond to.

Posting scripture sans any explanation as to the point is useless.

Well you said your post 268 was an exegetical post. It was not it was almost pure eisegesis.

And I do not hold to reformed theology. ON the contrary I am a dispensationalist who is a literalist which is th eopposite of reformed theology.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you saying, that you don’t know that Gods seed remains in you?

When did we go from God ordering events in a persons life to Gods seed remaining in me? I miseed the transitioon.

But no I am eternally saved and cannot ecome unsaved because of Him who died and rose for me.

 

[Behold]

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Your verse is very specific, and does not say they were initially chosen to become a Believer.

So, the "WE" in your verse are the Christians......and they Chose to BELIEVE in Christ.....= Free Will

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

This "Adoption" predestination is based on becoming "IN CHRIST".. first..

So, the Adoption, the Conforming. (Predestination) . is AFTER you are in Christ....as that is what is pre-destined.........not the becoming a Christian.. as that is based on the person giving God THEIR Faith, in Christ.

He has chosen us before the foundation of the world.

We are Not chosen to believe, but to be "conformed" and to be "adopted"..is what is predestined... as that happens after you are "in Christ".

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,

God foreknew that Lucifer was going to sin in Heaven, but that is not God predestining it..

So, this "conforming" happens AFTER you are born again.... as you have to be "IN Christ".. first.... to then be predestined for adoption and conforming.

Calvin was too poor of a bible student to be able to understand it.
And you follow Him, so, you are the same..

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

That is a Question, not a Doctrine.

Read more carefully.

22 WHAT IF .... God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Again, that is not a doctrine.....that is a "WHAT IF"... .

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Here we see the KJV idea of "might" and that means... "Because He DID"