And your reply does not bang your drum? Does it validate your view and being glory to God?
Do you see many posts saying "I know I am wrong about this, and I'd like someone to teach me?"
"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed
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Do you see many posts saying "I know I am wrong about this, and I'd like someone to teach me?"
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Self appointed chiefs abound and glory hunters a dime a dozen!.....who needs that?
And some present scriptures as written before they were massaged into supporting their pet doctrines in hope that others would search for understanding without their favorite study-bible and use the tools available to us today - praying that God will give understanding. Unless we open our minds to God's thoughts and push our man's, it may not happen.
My convictions may not match yours, but I am responsible for me.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God's thoughts are revealed in the revelation of Jesus. Mans thoughts are revealed by distracting from God's thoughts and supplanting them with his own (self orientation)
Sometimes my hope is that Christ in me with what has been revealed interests others to consider Yahavah. Some of my thoughts could be wrong and sometimes I could misrepresented something, but those things people need to forget about. All the while testing all things and holding fast to the things which are good and of the spirit. That is something we all must learn to do, even against what anyone else has ever told us, be it grandma or grandpa. A willingly mind is one which is willingly to learn, reading scripture over and over in nonworship, learns a great deal. In study a dig, which tremendous weight is awaiting one’s hands, is weary to the flesh, but is overcame through endurance and patience, and thus continues to feed one’s soul, mind, and heart in the things of God and not so much of this world though we must continue to care for our neighbors around us, in the spirit to be able to once again share Gods glory to others (by faith of God working through us which produces love - which is seen as weak.), and give praise to him rather than to one’s own self.
My "view" may be an opinion, but also yours.
Every Christian must be taught by mature Christians before becoming a preacher. That is the normal procedure that Jesus taught and that the first century congregation followed.
The so-called Christians without religion are those who believe that they are special, as if they were messiahs. Obviously, those individuals are wrong.
It goes without saying that everything in life is learned from someone else.
Governments are responsible for public education, so they include as study material what suits their policy. The history of humanity is not studied from the same perspective in all countries; For example, in Cuba the economy has a different perspective from the capitalist market economy, and history is studied from a Marxist point of view.
Parents educate their children according to what they understand... and sometimes they are not even part of their education. Israelites and Christians educate their children in biblical teaching, and when they are adults they can decide which path to follow.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Well, I listened to "man's thoughts" as if they were the absolute truth until I discovered that they were not. Then, I turned to myself and various versions of the bible to determine "truth." While that helped somewhat, I didn't have convictions regarding "what God hath said" until I prayed that He would. On a couple issues, I received conviction that, although they made me uncomfortable because of peer pressure and friends that then distanced themselves, I prayed the Yahweh would take aware so I can be comfortable again. Short story is that He left me with them.
It is NOT easy to see scriptures in a manner different from what the majority opinion says is true. Depending on a person's social needs, it can be very upsetting for a while. I still seek the views of others to consider, but nothing becomes true until God shows me that it is true. Man has had thousands of years to manipulate words in what we call "the Bible." It takes a sincere effort and an open mind to allow God to be my teacher.
In case I am not being understood here, I have only a few of those God-given convictions, but they are large ones.
I can empathize.
Seems to help if you don't gauge your value based on the opinions of others.
And if you give in to the majority opinion you still won't feel better about yourself.
/
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
@Spyder
I think we all want to be understood Spyder, how much more God. His maligning by the Prince of Darkness and wicked men appears to have no end, yet in spite of this ongoing wickedness he has gloriously conquered in the slaughtered lamb...the lamb in the middle of the Throne (Rev.5:6).......and it is through this that we are to understand God.
He conquered by giving his life even by being brutalised without resisting. Here is the heart of God revealed. If it was just dying he could have died in Gethsemane and be done with it but no, the events surrounding Calvary where Jesus was tortured to the limits of endurance was the public spectacle into the heart of God; this is where character is revealed......this, is what he wants us to understand.....and his responses from go to woe displayed to us and the whole intelligent Universe the truth of his character.
I think we all want to be understood Spyder, how much more God. His maligning by the Prince of Darkness and wicked men appears to have no end, yet in spite of this ongoing wickedness he has gloriously conquered in the slaughtered lamb...the lamb in the middle of the Throne (Rev.5:6).......and it is through this that we are to understand God.
He conquered by giving his life even by being brutalised without resisting. Here is the heart of God revealed. If it was just dying he could have died in Gethsemane and be done with it but no, the events surrounding Calvary where Jesus was tortured to the limits of endurance was the public spectacle into the heart of God; this is where character is revealed......this, is what he wants us to understand.....and his responses from go to woe displayed to us and the whole intelligent Universe the truth of his character.
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From the OP:
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?
There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously.
Not to say that there isn't a need for religious training, but...
this approach leaves MUCH to be desired.
Saw this video of John MacArthur lamenting the sorry state of Evangelicalism in 2022. (video below)
Ligonier ministries had done a survey of Evangelicals. The findings, per MacArthur, were "shocking".
65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
Really? It seems as if the survey results TOLD you EXACTLY what they believe.
How can you claim that they "have absolutely no idea what they believe"?
If we reverse the percentages, what do we get? (hope my math is correct) - LOL
35% of Evangelicals DIS-agreed that everyone is born innocent.
45% DIS-agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
44% DIS-agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
67% DIS-agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
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Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?
There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously.
Not to say that there isn't a need for religious training, but...
this approach leaves MUCH to be desired.
Saw this video of John MacArthur lamenting the sorry state of Evangelicalism in 2022. (video below)
Ligonier ministries had done a survey of Evangelicals. The findings, per MacArthur, were "shocking".
65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
Really? It seems as if the survey results TOLD you EXACTLY what they believe.
How can you claim that they "have absolutely no idea what they believe"?
If we reverse the percentages, what do we get? (hope my math is correct) - LOL
35% of Evangelicals DIS-agreed that everyone is born innocent.
45% DIS-agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
44% DIS-agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
67% DIS-agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
[
Behold
Well-Known Member
You must be pretty bored, to come now and bump all these old Threads.
Need more attention do you?
So, every new Christian, born again, is now entered into a time of Training.
And this is the critical time, because this is when the Devil will send to you, a Cultist, and ruin your Christianity.
This happens so often.
How to avoid it, is difficult.......because a new Believer has not met the Bible Haters, and the Fake Believers, who have learned how to sound as if they are a Christian.
And the New Believer has probably not met a recruiter for the Mormon Church or the JW Cult.. or a recruiter for Calvinism... so, they are OPEN, because they have not learned to be careful...........and that makes them easy prey.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
What do you make of this quote by John MacArthur?
"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
These percentages tell us what they actually believe.
65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
How can John MacArthur claim they don't know what they believe?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
I think that only a self righteous deceiver, who has paranoid mental issues, will state "Every Evangelical".
As that is a blanket condemnation, on every single one of them, and yet, John MacArthur has never met them all.
There is one member here who has that same issue... and that is Episkapos.. As he is the self anointed one who came to us all, and to the entire world to tell us his "message from God",, because only HE has the LIGHT.
Whereas the truth is.. .that PAUL is our Teacher, and the NT is the LIGHT for Life.
So, MacArthu just a deceiver with a mind that is closed.. As a matter of fact He teaches a "doctrine of devils".. that is called "Lordship Salvation" that is his version of self saving, and working your way to heaven.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
"Evangelicals" as used here is a corporate entity. A body made up of multiple individual parts. Corporate entities have their own values, beliefs, and behaviors that can be described statistically.
Johnny Mac is dead nuts right on this one. The data shows that "Evangelicals" looked at as a whole has a roughly 50-50 split personality.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I should've taken a sociology course for my mandatory fuzzy-studies credits in college, but as an engineer, we use statistical analysis all the time to describe the behaviors of large numbers of individual parts.
Sometimes you have to focus on the body as a whole, not on the individual components.
Sometimes you have to focus on the body as a whole, not on the individual components.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I agree for the most part.
My aim was to point out the absurdity of the claim.
MacArthur should have said that the Evangelical church has failed to indoctrinate Evangelicals with Evangelical doctrine.
Evangelicals, I would say, definitively know what they believe. And half of them DON'T believe in Evangelicalism.
65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.
MacArthur shared these statistics to illustrate his perceived crisis in Evangelicalism.
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