Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[Ronald Nolette]

AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE...
BUT
OF COURSE
YOU WON'T BE INTERESTED.
BETTER TO FOLLOW JOHN CALVIN INSTEAD.

And working hard to act like behold and hurl your pre-pubescent insults simply demeans you.

I follow jesus and His Word. You have yet to show one solid scripture verse as to why the five points that are called Calvinism are false. YOu have just given reviews and opinions.

But my Question for you is, can you even defend your belief in the five points of Jacob Arminius that you adhere to? There is no middle ground or thirds alternative in this discussion. One either accepts TULIP all or in part or accepts the five points of Arminius.

I have at least posted many verses to show why "the five points of Calvinism" are biblical.

so far all you have done is disagree without showing from Scripture why.

 

[Behold]

verse 21- god has the right to make honorable and dishonorable lumps.

A dishonorable lump would be someone trying to lead Christians to Calvinism.

Or someone trying to lead a Christian to Mormonism.

So, as you are this known "lump" and its because you chose to become a Disciple of a Demonic Liar, then its best for you not to blame God for your decision to become Deceived.
Same for a Mormon, or a JW or a Satanist.

 

[GodsGrace]

One of the few things Calvinists get correct is their view of God's Sovereignty.

John....it's the ONLY thing they get correct
AND
They don't have a correct understanding of it as all other Christians do.

EVERY Christian and Christian denomination believes in the sovereignty of God.
What Calvinists convert that to mean is that NOT ONLY is God in control of everything...
but that He predestinates everything.

Now,,,if you're going to speak to a Calvinist, this distinction MUST be made or it's going to sound like, yes, God IS IN CONTROL of everything.

Nothing happens that God does not PERMIT to happen.

Here's the problem:
Calvinist's don't believe that God PERMITS what happens here on our side,,,,
but that He MAKES it happen...
He predestinated everything that happens.

Now, I've known you long enough to believe that you are NOT a reformed believer...
so what give Calvinism fuel when it's the FARTHEST theology from the love, mercy and justice of the God all Christians know and love?

If we're going to speak of God's glory or His sovereignty....there is NO Christian that is going to disagree with you.

But...yeah,,,let's get our definitions correct.
The Calvinists on this thread do not understand SOVEREIGNTY the same way you or I do.

Or,,,have you become reformed???

Perfectly in control at all times over everything. Man was born blind so God's Glory could be revealed....not just Jesus's authority, power, access to His Father or the Holy Spirit or that He could do whatever He wished.
But His Glory....which is not what has been discussed.

Why discuss something that is obvious?
Of course God IS glory...
God does not HAVE something...
He IS something....
DIVINE SIMPLICTY.

God does not HAVE love.
He IS love.

Now...because God has control over everything....
does this mean man has no free will?

Does this mean I cannot deny God?
If I deny Him, will He deny me?

So....
In order to understand the answer Jesus gave an in depth discussion needs to be had about "The Glory of God" and what Jesus meant when He said that. (Originalist viewpoint necessary)

What DID Jesus mean when He said that?

Edited to add:
The correct answer using an incorrect methodology is not going to work. It only creates other more egregious errors later in other theologies.

This is very interesting.
You wouldn't want to start a thread on this??

You can say for sure that God is glorious – your Bible declares that he is – but you cannot accurately and fully describe in words the glory that Scripture declares. Perhaps the only workable path into some understanding of the grandeur of the glory of God is to read the entire Bible from cover to cover over and over again, looking for divine glory. Why? Because the glory of God isn't defined in his Word; no, his glory is so grand that it splashes across every page of his book.

That being said, there are places where Scripture attempts to define the hugeness of the glory of God with the smallness of human language so we can get a glimpse of what it's like. For example: the prophet Isaiah, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, stretches human language to its furthest point of elasticity in order to give us a little glimpse of God's glory. He writes, "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand?" (Isaiah 40:12).

I've actually done this, and it would be a good word picture for you to attempt. Go to your sink, turn it on, and see how much water you can cup in the palm of your hand before it starts spilling out. Then, consider that your God can hold all of the liquid in the universe and not spill a single drop!

Isaiah continues: "[He] has weighed the mountains in a scale … Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket [to him] … [He] stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah 40: 12, 15, 22).

The prophet is employing incalculably huge word pictures to help us have a miniscule glimpse of understanding into how glorious God is. Yet even these very picturesque and helpful descriptions fall miserably short of capturing the awesome glory of God.

So, when the Bible speaks of God's glory, what is it talking about? The doctrine of God's glory encompasses the greatness, beauty, and perfection of all that he is.

source: The Doctrine of Glory

 

[Behold]

I follow jesus and His Word.

You "follow' Calvin and His lies.
You are on this forum, right now, and yesterday, trying to SELL CALVINISM to people.
Only a deceived person will believe that Selling Calvinism, is teaching "Christianity".
So, THat makes you a WILLING disciple of a deceiver, who is being used as as tool of deception. @Ronald Nolette

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ignore him-for the way and manner in which he is acting is not Christlike, showing neither reverence nor the fruit of the Holy Spirit.


Galatians 6:1:
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

2 Timothy 2:24-25:
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth."

James 5:19-20:
"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Proverbs 27:5-6:
"Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."

Matthew 18:15:
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."

Shalom.

J.

Well after much prayer and a strong willingness to place him on ignore for his unchristian behavior, God told me no! As best as I can figure, the Lord wishes me to be like Mordechi to his Haman. Believe me, when I see he has responded to me, I do not find any joy there.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A dishonorable lump would be someone trying to lead Christians to Calvinism.

Or someone trying to lead a Christian to Mormonism.

So, as you are this known "lump" and its because you chose to become a Disciple of a Demonic Liar, then its best for you not to blame God for your decision to become Deceived.
Same for a Mormon, or a JW or a Satanist.

Once again, lots of noise, with no discernable sense to the noise.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You "follow' Calvin and His lies.
You are on this forum, right now, and yesterday, trying to SELL CALVINISM to people.
Only a deceived person will believe that Selling Calvinism, is teaching "Christianity".
So, THat makes you a WILLING disciple of a deceiver, who is being used as as tool of deception. @Ronald Nolette

Empty noise from a soul bereft of proper behavior.

 

[Behold]

Once again, lots of noise, with no discernable sense to the noise.

You are on the fourm selling a doctrine of devils, while pretending this is "Christianity".
So, What does that make you @Ronald Nolette

 

[Behold]

Empty noise from a soul bereft of proper behavior.

Why would you believe that selling Calvin's Lies is "proper behavior"?

A.) Because that is what a disciple of this Deceiver is trained to do.


Christians Lead people to Christ.

Calvinists lead people to Calvin.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are on the fourm selling a doctrine of devils, while pretending this is "Christianity".
So, What does that make you @Ronald Nolette

And you have been totally incapable of even putting up the smallest biblical argument against what is known as "the five points of Calvinsim". You can't even defend your belief in the five points of Jacob Arminius. a true Sad Sack.

YOu are like a typical liberal in america. Can't defend, so just slander.

 

[JohnDB]

John....it's the ONLY thing they get correct
AND
They don't have a correct understanding of it as all other Christians do.

EVERY Christian and Christian denomination believes in the sovereignty of God.
What Calvinists convert that to mean is that NOT ONLY is God in control of everything...
but that He predestinates everything.

Now,,,if you're going to speak to a Calvinist, this distinction MUST be made or it's going to sound like, yes, God IS IN CONTROL of everything.

Nothing happens that God does not PERMIT to happen.

Here's the problem:
Calvinist's don't believe that God PERMITS what happens here on our side,,,,
but that He MAKES it happen...
He predestinated everything that happens.

Now, I've known you long enough to believe that you are NOT a reformed believer...
so what give Calvinism fuel when it's the FARTHEST theology from the love, mercy and justice of the God all Christians know and love?

If we're going to speak of God's glory or His sovereignty....there is NO Christian that is going to disagree with you.

But...yeah,,,let's get our definitions correct.
The Calvinists on this thread do not understand SOVEREIGNTY the same way you or I do.

Or,,,have you become reformed???


Why discuss something that is obvious?
Of course God IS glory...
God does not HAVE something...
He IS something....
DIVINE SIMPLICTY.

God does not HAVE love.
He IS love.

Now...because God has control over everything....
does this mean man has no free will?

Does this mean I cannot deny God?
If I deny Him, will He deny me?



What DID Jesus mean when He said that?


This is very interesting.
You wouldn't want to start a thread on this??

You can say for sure that God is glorious – your Bible declares that he is – but you cannot accurately and fully describe in words the glory that Scripture declares. Perhaps the only workable path into some understanding of the grandeur of the glory of God is to read the entire Bible from cover to cover over and over again, looking for divine glory. Why? Because the glory of God isn't defined in his Word; no, his glory is so grand that it splashes across every page of his book.

That being said, there are places where Scripture attempts to define the hugeness of the glory of God with the smallness of human language so we can get a glimpse of what it's like. For example: the prophet Isaiah, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, stretches human language to its furthest point of elasticity in order to give us a little glimpse of God's glory. He writes, "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand?" (Isaiah 40:12).

I've actually done this, and it would be a good word picture for you to attempt. Go to your sink, turn it on, and see how much water you can cup in the palm of your hand before it starts spilling out. Then, consider that your God can hold all of the liquid in the universe and not spill a single drop!

Isaiah continues: "[He] has weighed the mountains in a scale … Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket [to him] … [He] stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah 40: 12, 15, 22).

The prophet is employing incalculably huge word pictures to help us have a miniscule glimpse of understanding into how glorious God is. Yet even these very picturesque and helpful descriptions fall miserably short of capturing the awesome glory of God.

So, when the Bible speaks of God's glory, what is it talking about? The doctrine of God's glory encompasses the greatness, beauty, and perfection of all that he is.

source: The Doctrine of Glory

Well I'm definitely not a Calvinist. I just have a healthy respect and fear of God.
And God's Sovereignty? Somewhere between Jonah, Caleb, Elijah (under the broom tree), and Sampson is where I sit at theologically.

But we can know specifically what Jesus meant.
First....forget the Greek and Latin. Let's go to Hebrew lexicons and see the word in its entirety using theological dictionaries and the synonyms.
Then let's use the concordance to look at this exact phrase to see where it's been used.

Then draw a conclusion as to the whole of what other passages that allude to this expression might intend.

Then the understanding might come to fruition as to what Jesus (using word pictures) might have meant to the apostles who asked the question about this topic.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why would you believe that selling Calvin's Lies is "proper behavior"?

A.) Because that is what a disciple of this Deceiver is trained to do.


Christians Lead people to Christ.

Calvinists lead people to Calvin.

And you lead people no where. Which by default sends them to the lake of fire.

You are unable to show from Scripture why you think the five points are not biblical nor are you able to from Scripture post why believe your five pits of Arminiansm is biblical.

Empty words from an empty soul

 

[Ritajanice]

And you lead people no where. Which by default sends them to the lake of fire.

You are unable to show from Scripture why you think the five points are not biblical nor are you able to from Scripture post why believe your five pits of Arminiansm is biblical.

Empty words from an empty soul

Do you believe God makes everything happen in a persons life?

 

[Behold]

And you have been totally incapable of even putting up the smallest biblical argument against what is known as "the five points of Calvinsim".

I have done this many times, and many times you pretend i haven't.
So, you are not honest, or you have memory issues.
I say its both.

Now....Listen Carefully...

JOHN 3:16, says that God gave Jesus to the WORLD... and not just to the predestined, elect., as Lying Calvinism the (5) teaches.

Paul said.>>"ALL who believe in Jesus, shall be saved"... He didnt say, "only the predestined can believe and be saved".

Jesus said.. "ALL who believe in me, I give unto you, eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)... but He didnt say.. "all who were predestined i can give eternal life".

YOu are like a typical liberal in america. Can't defend, so just slander.

Listen..

Calvinism as Hyper.. the 5 Points, is teaching that Christ would literally turn people away from His Cross.

That is Satanic theology, and you are teaching it @Ronald Nolette

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ronald Nolette ..who are the elect of God?

And who the ones that Behold keeps talking about?

As I’m afraid his posts make no sense to me.

 

[Behold]

And you lead people no where.

On a Forum, I lead people away from Heretics.
How do i do that?
I engage them , and they respond with their heresy, and then other members who are not deceived can read and easily see their circular reasoning, and their inability to understand the most simple NT verse.... because their cult theology does not allow them to see the truth.

For example, i can post..>>"'For God so loved the WORLD that He gave JESUS"...

And then a Calvinist will see that as... "For God so predestined only some"...

See that? That is what Calvinism does to your mind.....

 

[Behold]

And who the ones that Behold keeps talking about?

Lets see if you can understand this..

Lets say you have never trusted in Christ, and are not born again, and you have not been on a Calvinist Forum, before.

You are just a woman... an unbeliever.

So, outside your home, on the Street, im preaching... in the middle of November, at 9am.

And you come outside...,. curious.

I say to the small crowd that has gathered....."All have sinned, there is none righteous,.. no not one> and then i Preach....."""Jesus has died for our sin, and He is risen from the dead". "All who will believe In Jesus, shall be saved"..

And the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart, and your are caused to understand that what i have told you, is the TRUTH..

So, at that point, you have come '"to the Knowledge of the TRUTH">.. as the HS has enlightened you to understand that what i am preaching is TRUE...,,, Just like it is right now..... Reader.

So, will you believe by faith.. and trust in Christ ????.......or will you do what some do that Jesus defined as..."You REFUSE to come to me... so that you may have eternal life".

A.) You get to choose.

 

[Ritajanice]

Lets see if you can understand this..

Lets say you have never trusted in Christ, and are not born again, and you have not been on a Calvinist Forum, before.

You are just a woman... an unbeliever.

So, outside, on the Street, im preaching... in them middle of November.

And you come outside.

I say..."All have sinned, there is none righteous,.. no not one> and then i Preach....."""Jesus has died for our sin, and He is risen from the dead". "All who will believe In Jesus, shall be saved"..

And the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart and your are caused to understand that what i have told you, is the TRUTH..

So, at that point, you have come '"to the Knowledge of the TRUTH">.. as the HS has enlightened you to understand that what i am preaching is TRUE...

So, will you believe by faith.. and trust in Christ.......or will you do what some to that Jesus defined as..."You REFUSE to come to me... so that you may have eternal life".

You get to choose.

The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children , as he’s indwelling us and birthing us in the Spirit..your hearing as you call it, is not how we are Born Of The Spirit.

Your faith in God is zero ,as you can’t possibly know him, not until he has gifted you supernatural faith...plus what I say is Biblical.

You cannot teach how to be Born Of The Spirit...your teaching is flawed and that of a heretic.

Plus your understanding of scripture is extremely limited ..you have very little understanding of spiritual matters.

 

[Behold]

You cannot teach how to be Born Of The Spirit...your teaching is flawed and that of a heretic.

try again @Ritajanice , and dont dodge this again...., as Members are watching you, just as they are watching me try to help you.

-----------------------------

Lets say you have never trusted in Christ, and are not born again, and you have not been on a Calvinist Forum, before.

You are just a woman... an unbeliever.

So, outside your home, on the Street, im preaching... in the middle of November, at 9am.

And you come outside...,. curious.

I say to the small crowd that has gathered....."All have sinned, there is none righteous,.. no not one> and then i Preach....."""Jesus has died for our sin, and He is risen from the dead". "All who will believe In Jesus, shall be saved"..

And the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart, and your are caused to understand that what i have told you, is the TRUTH..

So, at that point, you have come '"to the Knowledge of the TRUTH">.. as the HS has enlightened you to understand that what i am preaching is TRUE...,,, Just like it is right now..... Reader.

So, will you believe by faith.. and trust in Christ ????.......or will you do what some do that Jesus defined as..."You REFUSE to come to me... so that you may have eternal life".

A.) You get to choose.

 

[Ritajanice]

try again @Ritajanice , and dont dodge this, as people are watching you, just as they are watching me try to help you.

-----------------------------

Lets say you have never trusted in Christ, and are not born again, and you have not been on a Calvinist Forum, before.

You are just a woman... an unbeliever.

So, outside your home, on the Street, im preaching... in the middle of November, at 9am.

And you come outside...,. curious.

I say to the small crowd that has gathered....."All have sinned, there is none righteous,.. no not one> and then i Preach....."""Jesus has died for our sin, and He is risen from the dead". "All who will believe In Jesus, shall be saved"..

And the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart, and your are caused to understand that what i have told you, is the TRUTH..

So, at that point, you have come '"to the Knowledge of the TRUTH">.. as the HS has enlightened you to understand that what i am preaching is TRUE...,,, Just like it is right now..... Reader.

So, will you believe by faith.. and trust in Christ ????.......or will you do what some do that Jesus defined as..."You REFUSE to come to me... so that you may have eternal life".

A.) You get to choose.

The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children , as he’s indwelling us and birthing us in the Spirit..your hearing as you call it, is not how we are Born Of The Spirit.

Your faith in God is zero ,as you can’t possibly know him, not until he has gifted you supernatural faith...plus what I say is Biblical.

You cannot teach how to be Born Of The Spirit...your teaching is flawed and that of a heretic.

Plus your understanding of scripture is extremely limited ..you have very little understanding of spiritual matters.