Israel

[quietthinker]

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, that bring literal plagues upon this literal earth, they have physical bodies that die, that lay in a literal street, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths

Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must [a]shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

 

[Carl Emerson]

Prophecy states a temple will be built. and a future world leader will abominate it with an abomination that causes desolation which will be a sign that the great tribulation has begun.

whether we want a temple built or not does nto matter.

Are you suggesting it is OK the be an accomplice to an abomination ?

 

[Scott Downey]

Building the temple is abominable
Judaism today is abominable, that temple is going to house the antichrist when he is revealed.
The 'temple of God' is just how the world will understand it, but we know that is false as the believer in Christ is the temple of God, not any building. The world also thinks Jews worship the Lord God, however Jesus calls unbelieving jews out saying they have Satan as their father.

Those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth, or they are not worshipping God.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

John 8

Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s​

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Before Abraham Was, I AM​

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[p] through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jews tried to rebuild in around 300 ad under Julian the Apostate., but God would not let them. This is Sozomen's account from his book The Ecclesiastical History (Book V) He was a historian during the rule of Julian the Apostate.​

This is an excerpt from book 5​

When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.



The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple and consumed several of the workmen.



This fact is fearlessly stated and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

When they finally do build that temple, you will know the time of the end is approaching, it will be another sign.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you suggesting it is OK the be an accomplice to an abomination ?

Can you tell me how you could possibly get that from my post?

 

[Jay Ross]

Israel is Home to stay, in the Land of the Bible! All the identity thieves in the world will soon learn.

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

What the translators missed were the metaphors hidden in plain sight in Amos 9:13-15. This is how I believe these verses should be paraphrased: -

Amos 9:13-15: -​

13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain {i.e. the religion based on Christ} shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills {i.e. the other religious practices} shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in my fertile field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

This paraphrase presents a very different picture to the one above and is in keeping with other prophetic passages where God promised to Gather Israel once more to Himself and plant them in His fertile soil.

The traditional translations have a focus on Israel returning to the Land without the emphasis of Israel turning back to God with all of their hearts and only worshipping Him.

When we project a literal understanding of God's prophetic words our focus is on our desires and not on God's desire for the hearts of the people to be on Him.

We need to look much more closely at the context of what God is doing and not on what is the focus of our hearts for material possessions.

 

[Jack]

What the translators missed were the metaphors hidden in plain sight in Amos 9:13-15. This is how I believe these verses should be paraphrased: -

Amos 9:13-15: -​

13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain {i.e. the religion based on Christ} shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills {i.e. the other religious practices} shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in my fertile field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

This paraphrase presents a very different picture to the one above and is in keeping with other prophetic passages where God promised to Gather Israel once more to Himself and plant them in His fertile soil.

The traditional translations have a focus on Israel returning to the Land without the emphasis of Israel turning back to God with all of their hearts and only worshipping Him.

When we project a literal understanding of God's prophetic words our focus is on our desires and not on God's desire for the hearts of the people to be on Him.

We need to look much more closely at the context of what God is doing and not on what is the focus of our hearts for material possessions.

What are YOUR qualifications for declaring nearly every English Bible translation wrong?

 

[Brakelite]

Modern Judaism as a religion is anti-Christ.

Yet it seems many believers are drawn towards supporting the building of the third temple as if it will hasten the coming of Jesus.

I am guessing that when it is built, believers will not only support it but there will be those who will convert to Judaism, failing to discern the true spirit behind it.

Future temple priests (in regalia) who are descendants of Aaron, recently went to the temple mount and prayed blessing in the Stone which supported the Arc of the Covenant.

With the likely expulsion of an Arab presence on the mount during the present war, plans for the temple, which are well advanced, will be rapidly implemented.

Comments welcome.

Jesus is our King and His temple is now believers who are indwelled by Him.

- Maybe in the future there will be a massive repentance among Jews but this has not yet happened. Meantime to support unredeemed Zionism is a big mistake. Not that in ethical terms, Israel is the worst player in the present conflict, but we are seeing a proud unrepentant people with plenty of human wisdom, and God given talent, refusing Jesus as King and trying to recreate a covenant that God terminated at the Cross.

Please understand that I have a deep love for Jewish people and the return to the land is part of God's plan, but resurrecting Judaism with the sacrificial system which was a shadow, and still refusing the light is spiritually evil, deceptive and dangerous.

The Late Arthur Katz used to say that given these circumstances the Jews may need to be expelled from the land before finding repentance, may be so, but maybe the two witnesses will bring them to their senses and repentance will come without that needing to take place?

I am musing and have no authority to say how things will pan out, but I think these matters need to be discussed as the implications of misplaced loyalties are very severe if we end up supporting a false religion unwittingly.

Readers be warned.

The two witnesses have already spoken. Jesus told the Israel of His day that because the reject Moses, they will reject Him. That still applies. The 2 witnesses are the old and new testaments... the law and the prophets.

 

[Jack]

Israel is Home to stay in the Land of the Bible!

 

[Jay Ross]

What are YOUR qualifications for declaring nearly every English Bible translation wrong?

What is your qualification to claim that I am wrong in the paraphrase of those three verses that I posted. Have you personally verified for yourself that I have made an error in my paraphrasing of these three verses, or have you just blindly accepted that the translators are "right" in their understanding of the scriptures because they all basically make the same claims within their respective translations.

When Jesus said that we can pray for a mountain to be washed into the sea of humanity was He actually speaking about a literal mountain or the religious idolatrous practices carried out on the top of that mountain whereas Jesus was referencing the idolatrous practices on that mountain as a metaphor? It is just a thought on your qualification to question the accuracy of my paraphrasing of the Hebrew texts in this one particular case.

 

[Jay Ross]

Israel is Home to stay in the Land of the Bible!

Hey Jack, Ezekiel 34 disagrees with this understanding metaphorically. For Israel to be a blessing to all of the Gentiles in the latter days, the nation of Israel must remain scattered throughout all of the earth. Therefore, what you are claiming must be false.

 

[Jack]

What is your qualification to claim that I am wrong in the paraphrase of those three verses that I posted. Have you personally verified for yourself that I have made an error in my paraphrasing of these three verses, or have you just blindly accepted that the translators are "right" in their understanding of the scriptures because they all basically make the same claims within their respective translations.

When Jesus said that we can pray for a mountain to be washed into the sea of humanity was He actually speaking about a literal mountain or the religious idolatrous practices carried out on the top of that mountain whereas Jesus was referencing the idolatrous practices on that mountain as a metaphor? It is just a thought on your qualification to question the accuracy of my paraphrasing of the Hebrew texts in this one particular case.

It's called the Christian Bible.

 

[Jack]

Hey Jack, Ezekiel 34 disagrees with this understanding metaphorically. For Israel to be a blessing to all of the Gentiles in the latter days, the nation of Israel must remain scattered throughout all of the earth. Therefore, what you are claiming must be false.

Metaphorically? lol

Israel is Home to stay!

Amos 9:15
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

 

[quietthinker]

What the translators missed were the metaphors hidden in plain sight in Amos 9:13-15. This is how I believe these verses should be paraphrased: -

Amos 9:13-15: -​

13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain {i.e. the religion based on Christ} shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills {i.e. the other religious practices} shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in my fertile field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

This paraphrase presents a very different picture to the one above and is in keeping with other prophetic passages where God promised to Gather Israel once more to Himself and plant them in His fertile soil.

The traditional translations have a focus on Israel returning to the Land without the emphasis of Israel turning back to God with all of their hearts and only worshipping Him.

When we project a literal understanding of God's prophetic words our focus is on our desires and not on God's desire for the hearts of the people to be on Him.

We need to look much more closely at the context of what God is doing and not on what is the focus of our hearts for material possessions.

...and is not the descriptor 'Israel', meant to be understood as God's people.....as opposed to a certain ethnicity in a certain geographical location?

 

[Jay Ross]

It's called the Christian Bible.

Which translation is that?

 

[Jay Ross]

Metaphorically? lol

Israel is Home to stay!

Amos 9:15
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

This just shows that you have not checked out the contextual accuracy of the translation that you use.

I simply disagree with your understanding from your flawed translation.

 

[Jay Ross]

...and is not the descriptor 'Israel', meant to be understood as God's people.....as opposed to a certain ethnicity in a certain geographical location?

Contextually, Israel here has the meaning of the Descendants of Jacob in Amos 9:14 and God is intending to gather all of the descendants of Jacob to Himself from where they are living, scattered throughout the whole earth and plant them in His fertile field. The Parable of the Sower in three Gospels comes to mind for me to reinforce this understanding.

Israel cannot be a blessing to all of the people of the earth if they are only to be found in the Land of Canaan. The Israelites have to be rubbing shoulders with all of the different people groups of the earth scattered throughout the whole earth.

Technically the descriptor 'Israel" can have the understanding of "God's people," but in the case of Amos 9:14. Nor is the term "Israel" referring to "a certain ethnicity in a certain geographical location." That is construct of man and not God.

 

[Jack]

Which translation is that?

I have 40. I know what they say.

 

[Jack]

This just shows that you have not checked out the contextual accuracy of the translation that you use.

Baloney! I've been reading the Bible for nearly 45 years!

I simply disagree with your understanding from your flawed translation.

IOW you wrote your own bible to please YOU!