God's cup of wrath - Bible Study 4 Pages (Completed.)

[Verily]

Wrath as it relates to darkness/ the sun going down and the hiding of His face can be shown on the cross.

For example, it says

Isaiah 9:19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened

Here it speaks of the sun going down at noon and the darkening of the earth at that time

Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day

Then we see at noon (or when the sixth hour was come) there come this darkness over the land

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

At the end of that sixth to ninth hour window is when Christ's forsaken cry comes in

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

So it seems to show that through the wrath of the LORD of hosts which the land itself is darkened, and even a little wrath pertains to the hiding of His face (or the LORD forsaken someone)

Isaiah 54:7-8 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

And the hiding of His face can be done against a nation or just a man alone as it says in Job

Job 34:29 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only.

It does say He laid upon Christ the iniquity of us all, and that the chastisement of our peace was upon him.

I never considered the saying "let not the sun go down upon your wrath" in that context

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @amadeus,

It looks like you see Jesus state what that cup was : This cup is the new testament in my blood: Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is the cup of his death, I suppose, the dying of ourselves in Christ. What do you think and your thoughts on them?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Verily,

I simply just do not believe personally within my heart, that God placed his wrath upon him. I do believe that God did forsake him though, for a time due to that sin taking on flesh, only to be risen again on the third day in showing that Yahavah, kept his promises by rising him up from the grave again.

 

[amadeus]

Hello @amadeus,

It looks like you see Jesus state what that cup was : This cup is the new testament in my blood: Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is the cup of his death, I suppose, the dying of ourselves in Christ. What do you think and your thoughts on them?

There is, as I see and understand it, the blood of the flesh [shed by the physical man, Jesus. on Calvary] and the spiritual blood [the Holy Spirit shed as per Acts 2 and thereafter]. The former was to pay a price, whereas the other was to lead us and empower us to become overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer. The blood [physical] as per many OT verses was Not to be consumed ever whereas the blood of the Spirit had to be consumed in order to really have the Life which Jesus brought.

 

[Verily]

Hello @Verily,

I simply just do not believe personally within my heart, that God placed his wrath upon him. I do believe that God did forsake him though, for a time due to that sin taking on flesh, only to be risen again on the third day in showing that Yahavah, kept his promises by rising him up from the grave again.

I dont know what you are referring to when you are talking about placing wrath on Christ, It says he laid the iniquity of us all upon him (Isaiah 53:6). When it come to being forsaken, that is just one of the things which can be shown in wrath

Isaiah 54:7-8 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

And hiding his face can be done done against an entire nation or a man alone

Job 34:29... and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only.

2 Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Verily

I don't think so personally but I would have to go and look at what Vines dictionary says concerning "wrath." I hope you can understand that. I must just not understand what you are saying. It is not helping personally from my side of the equation. Thank you.

 

[Verily]

Hello @Verily

I don't think so personally but I would have to go and look at what Vines dictionary says concerning "wrath." I hope you can understand that. I must just not understand what you are saying. It is not helping personally from my side of the equation. Thank you.

I think I am missing you actually, I don't know what you are referring to when you say, "I don't think so personally", unless you are finding a verse problematic I cannot tell.

Just stick with dictionaries for now, its all good.

 

[MatthewG]

There is, as I see and understand it, the blood of the flesh [shed by the physical man, Jesus. on Calvary] and the spiritual blood [the Holy Spirit shed as per Acts 2 and thereafter]. The former was to pay a price, whereas the other was to lead us and empower us to become overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer. The blood [physical] as per many OT verses was Not to be consumed ever whereas the blood of the Spirit had to be consumed in order to really have the Life which Jesus brought.

Hello John,

I don't understand how blood can be spiritual. What I do see is Yeshua praying for the cup to pass, yet his sweat was like drops of blood. I do understand that yes, that is what Yeshua is referring to concerning his speaking among his friends, apostles, in which even today those words are remembrances for us to also remember the sacrifice of the Lord Yeshua on the cross, and what he had done for the world. These things amaze me and still bring tears to my eyes, because it was such a wonderful yet, horrible torture that he had to go through on behalf of not himself, but for his Father, and for the whole world.

Even though Yeshua had stated on the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." That did not in anyway extinguish the "Day of the LORD," from coming upon the Israelites within an age of time. Which they did understand, though they ignored the message in searching to keep "their" material kingdom, and traditions alive disregarding God all together, having put Jesus up for death. When they screamed "let his blood be on our children, and ourselves." This was a dire saying... as this is what became within the context of the wrath of Yahavah, which I was trying to share with Mr. Behold.

As you can see here even from Ezekiel, it was foretold a boding which would end the lives of many people in Israel, and it did come about with 1,000,000 people dead. Though many people suggest well, there have been more deaths or this is not significant. What is truly, significant is that the book of life was closed at the end of the age when this happened. As all the linage of the "genealogy" (book of life) was ended to no avail in even today anyone knowing what "tribe" they were from.

It amazes me and astonishes me personally even being able to share anything like this with you, or anyone I come across because it hold water concerning, the wrath being poured out on Israel, and not... the Son of God... there would be nor reason for such.

 

[Behold]

Hello @Verily,

I simply just do not believe personally within my heart, that God placed his wrath upon him.

Jesus understood that The Cross is where He was going to shed His Blood, that would begin the New Covenant, and the New Testament.

Jesus understood the COST....... was a horrible death that began with a beating, a scourging, and then being nailed to The Cross.

Jesus defined this as " this cup" of God's Judgment, against the Sin of the World.

New International Version
Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”

New Living Translation
But Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword back into its sheath. Shall I not drink from the cup of suffering the FATHER has given me"....

English Standard Version
So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”

Berean Standard Bible
“Put your sword back in its sheath!” Jesus said to Peter. “Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given Me?”



This "cup" is what you and i earned with our sinful lives., and Jesus paid the price for OUR sinful lives, by taking this "CUP" of God's judgment upon Himself.

 

[amadeus]

Hello John,

I don't understand how blood can be spiritual...

The life of the flesh is in the red blood. We are not to consume that kind of blood. That is the way of the flesh, the carnal way. The Way of God is via the Spirit!

The Spirit is the Blood of Jesus. In the OT especially in the Book of Leviticus it is made clear that life is in the blood, but that is speaking of carnal animals [and people] having physical life. It was a type or shadow of the real Life which was given up in Eden, but brought back by Jesus. Jesus came as a physical man with physical blood and he shed that blood, but he also shed something that no physical man had, the Spirit. Men had spirit, but it was corrupted with no real Life in it. Men with only the red blood of the body were effectively dead. Jesus came to change that. He did not do it with by sharing with us the red blood of his also corruptible [corruptible, but NOT corrupted] body of flesh. The real Life lost in the Garden was and is the Spirit.


"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
Revelation 7:14,


So the Blood of the Lamb makes no one red, but rather White.
Consider Esau [rough] who was called Edom [red] because he ate of the red pottage made by Jacob in exchange for his birthright.
Did not Jesus bring us something better than red pottage? How about robes made white by his Blood? How does this relate to this verse?

"But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion." Joel 3:20-21

In the natural we might believe that this was a sorting out of the mixed bloodlines of the natural Israelites [see Ezra 9:2-3 where Ezra was so upset he pulled out his own beard.] This may be right, but could this not also be simply a type or shadow of the double mindedness of Christian believers? What is Zion? One Hebrew derivation of the word means "dry or barren land". That is what every one of us were before we received Life from Jesus. Spiritually, we effectively had no Blood [Spirit] in us. We were dead. Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their dead" [Matt 8:22]. Apostle Paul writes

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

The cup of suffering, and the cup of wrath, are very much two different cups.

The life of the flesh is in the red blood. We are not to consume that kind of blood. That is the way of the flesh, the carnal way. The Way of God is via the Spirit!

The Spirit is the Blood of Jesus. In the OT especially in the Book of Leviticus it is made clear that life is in the blood, but that is speaking of carnal animals [and people] having physical life. It was a type or shadow of the real Life which was given up in Eden, but brought back by Jesus. Jesus came as a physical man with physical blood and he shed that blood, but he also shed something that no physical man had, the Spirit. Men had spirit, but it was corrupted with no real Life in it. Men with only the red blood of the body were effectively dead. Jesus came to change that. He did not do it with by sharing with us the red blood of his also corruptible [corruptible, but NOT corrupted] body of flesh. The real Life lost in the Garden was and is the Spirit.


"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
Revelation 7:14,


So the Blood of the Lamb makes no one red, but rather White.
Consider Esau [rough] who was called Edom [red] because he ate of the red pottage made by Jacob in exchange for his birthright.
Did not Jesus bring us something better than red pottage? How about robes made white by his Blood? How does this relate to this verse?

"But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion." Joel 3:20-21

In the natural we might believe that this was a sorting out of the mixed bloodlines of the natural Israelites [see Ezra 9:2-3 where Ezra was so upset he pulled out his own beard.] This may be right, but could this not also be simply a type or shadow of the double mindedness of Christian believers? What is Zion? One Hebrew derivation of the word means "dry or barren land". That is what every one of us were before we received Life from Jesus. Spiritually, we effectively had no Blood [Spirit] in us. We were dead. Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their dead" [Matt 8:22]. Apostle Paul writes

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Hello @amadeus.

Well met! Thank you for your insights. This blood of Yeshua, was shed for all people making them blank slates, and now have the ability to choose ! With consideration of the victory of the Lord Yeshua. When they come to Yahavah/God, or to the Lord Yeshua, they are given the "spirit" the white, which is opposed to the natural red, similar to how the flesh and the spirit contends with one another.

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,

The cup of suffering, and the cup of wrath, are very much two different cups.

The "cup" of God's Wrath, is the one that Jesus said....>>"if Possible, let this Cup pass from me"...

See that Cup?
That is God's divine Justice (Wrath) against the sin of the world, that was about to nail Jesus to the Cross, until He Died.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

Just because you say that, does not make it true... This is the problem with people not properly studying.
Two different cups, are not the same cup.

 

[MatthewG]

People truly misrepresent making God a monster pouring the wrath of God on the only begotten Son...

Truly ... baffling to me. I will not change my mind on what I already believe and have come to a conclusion too, neither will other people, but there are two different cups... and Ive never once read that "the Son of God will take on the cup of wrath..." Or any indication in the old testament concerning it...

Test it for yourself, and I would change my mind if I am wrong.

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,

Just because you say that, does not make it true... This is the problem with people not properly studying.
Two different cups, are not the same cup.

You stated that you can't believe that God sent Jesus to the Cross to die for your sin.

Here is how you said it... "I cant believe believe that God placed His Wrath on Him".


So, that is the "cup" of God judgement, against our sin.
And Had Jesus not borne it, then we all die without God as our Father, and that would have kept us out of Heaven.

So, God had to solve that..>>He had to find a WAY... John 14:6.......to satisfy His own Holiness, that requires JUSTICE against sin....against our sin...so, He sent His only Begotten Son to DIE...... for us.......as that is God's Justice... Judgment... that we deserve, ... this "CUP"... poured out on Jesus.

This is the : Cross of Christ

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

I am going on to go back to ignoring you. You just want to bicker and go back and forth. I have no time for it. Good bye. Blessing to you.

 

[MatthewG]

People should realize, that the tradition said and spoken out in the world concerning that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, had "wrath of God" poured out on him... are not correct in their biblical standing; however if anyone could prove me wrong on that I would most certainly change my mind but it's going to be hard to believe that Yahavah is such a monster he would do such to his own Word whom was made flesh, which was born of the flesh and spirit.

Here are the two differing cups. Just because Jesus took on sin, doesn't mean Jesus was wicked... (Baffling.)

"Cup of Suffering, and Cup of Wrath."

 

[Behold]

People truly misrepresent making God a monster pouring the wrath of God on the only begotten Son...

God's Wrath, in this case, is His Judgement against the world of Sin..

Notice this verse...

"God hath MADE......JESUS......,To BE SIN..........for us"..


Where?

A.) On the Cross.

Jesus took our sin upon Himself and was JUDGED on the CROSS, for OUR Sin..

God SENT HIN to the Cross, to become our SIN Bearer........and He received the judgement against all our sin, upon Himself.

That "Judgement" is the wrath... is the "Cup"...

"""""And Jesus went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.""""

Notice how terrible it was..........this Judgment for our sin, that fell on them.

""""And (Jesus) being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground."""""

This is the beginning of the price Jesus paid, so that WE can be forgiven., as He was still to be scourged and Nailed to The Cross.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

Wrath was against the material Israel kingdom of the twelve tribes. Wrath was not against Jesus, man… I don’t believe what people say on the internet. If you would like to make your own thread about it, that’s fine. You are not doing me any favors by going over the same statement you continue to make. Jesus suffered death, we also suffer the dying to ourselves being made alive in him. It was terrible that Jesus took on the world’s hatred, and sin by suffering. I agree, but it by no means was wrath… It was death.

Wrath, is the judgements concerning Israel, when they were done for in 70Ad, of course not many people believe that, and that’s fine. I’ve haven’t changed my mind on Jesus having already come back.

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,
Jesus took on the world’s hatred, and sin by suffering. I agree, but it by no means was wrath… It was death.

God's "cup" fell on Jesus, as the beating, the scourging, And the Cross.

This all happened before Jesus died.

This was the Judgement against sin, that is God's Justice.......fell on Jesus as the "Cup".

So, that is God's judgment on Earth.. that SAVES the believer from WRATH..... John 3:36
Hell is God's judgment, after the unbeliever dies.

Its best to allow Jesus to be our sin bearer and die for our sin, so that this takes care of our Eternity.... vs, dying a Christ rejector, and facing that same Wrath.......John 3:36... after death, as that judgment is Eternal.