Oklahoma orders first shipment of Bibles for use in public school classrooms

[WitnessX]

Its great news.

The Bible can always be used as a History book, in a Classroom........Public or Private.

Teaching from the Bible, using it as a historical source, is not the same as Preaching from the Bible, which would be the "controversy"..

So, the people who will try to take this to court, will say that "you can't teach from the NT, without it being Preaching, so that is RELIGION< and that is supposed to be separated from anything Federal"... and of course that is a TWIST on the 1st amendment.. so that its redefined as "freedom FROM Religion", vs..."Freedom OF Religion".

See, the FRAMERS of the USA Constitution, didnt say that Americans should be kept from religion, in a Federal environment, .. they said that the GOVERNMENT could not enforce Religion upon the Americans...at all.

A Bible in a Classroom, is not "enforcing religion upon the Student".

Reading a Bible, does not force Religion upon anyone.

What if they change the Bible being used to something else? say the Quran becomes the defacto Bible as far as the state is concerned, stop looking right in front of you and think about second and third order effects of these things.

 

[Wrangler]

Be careful handing authority to the “state”. It usually doesn’t end well.

Fear mongering post. The State already has this authority.

 

[Wrangler]

What if

Let’s stick to the current reality. No need to engage is suppositions.

 

[WitnessX]

Let’s stick to the current reality. No need to engage is suppositions.

Do you drive only looking at the back of the car in front of you?

 

[Lambano]

OMG! There is no such thing as ‘separation of church and state’ in our Constitution.

Oh, NOW you invoke Church/State separation after getting the State to do our discipling and evangelism for us?

 

[Wrangler]

Do you drive only looking at the back of the car in front of you?

Good question. I drive according to the actual, real driving conditions. I don't drive as if, what if there were different driving conditions that what is actually happening on the road.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh, NOW you invoke Church/State separation after getting the State to do our discipling and evangelism for us?

No. Learning about the Roman Empire. Actually joining the Roman Legions. Not the same thing.

 

[Bob]

But, you are OK with gay porn being in the library...




Yeah, if you want them to get more false doctrine. So called "modren" translations are gay friendly among other errors.

The KJV has a few errors but by and large it's one of the most accurate translations.

a better translation would be Young's Literal Translation.




No, it does not matter

Teachers should be followers of Jesus Christ... if not, then they should find employment else where




Exactly.





You should point out to the catholics that... their false doctrines are NOT taught in the Bible.





Is Bob Segar still in Kathmandu View attachment 52631

Thank you for your (non sequitur) reply.

From what do you conclude that I am Ok with porn, gay or otherwise, in a public library?! How is that related to local vs state sovereignty? Impugning with no justification is not a good look for Christians.

Peace.

 

[Wrangler]

Are you advocating liberty and freedom whist defending dictatorship? Isn’t that hypocritical?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

No. Your implied premises are rejected. We are free to choose but not free from the consequences of that choice. Oklahoma is merely improving the education of its citizens. There is nothing dictatorial or hypocritical about it. (My, how you twist things!)

Reading comprehension includes understanding the words as the author intended them to mean, not substitute with whatever meaning propagandists promote. You know this to be true about the Bible. It is true for all literature.

The 1st Amendment language meant by the authors merely restricted the Creature of the Constitution to sponsor a Christian denomination as various Colonies did before the late Revolution. NOTE: The 1st Amendment restricts Congress, not the States from establishing a religion. To sponsor or establish a religion means 2 things: for tax dollars to pay for the denomination and to treat as law, proclamations by the clergy of that denomination with State power to impose penalties for violating such proclamations. These are both prohibited per the 1A.

Perhaps learning what your own constitution declares is a first step to seeing what your own position really is?

Arrogant passive aggressiveness perhaps?! I am extremely well educated in the Founding Documents of the greatest country that ever was and educated more than one lawyer on the topic. I was amazed that not even lawyers were not taught the historical debates the Founding Father's had in crafting the words of Constitution as well as the Bill of Rights, for that is like a Biblical concordance, adding so much clarity and depth of understanding - and range of applicability.

You cannot force people to do something against their will

LOL Law has little effect without force. What an anarchist you are to imply all law should be abolished since "You cannot force people to do something against their will"

There is no "separation of church and State" in the Constitution.

I think you are mistaken....freedom of religion is guaranteed under your constitution. Do you want to rewrite it to suit your own biased position?

"Freedom of religion" is what I explained above regarding a restriction against a State Sponsor of a denomination. The "separation of church and State" IS the propagandist rewrite. Now that MAGA is back in power, a return to greatness is at hand. As Trump said, "make America religious again."

There is a mountain of evidence of the re-write and the importance America's leaders always placed on the citizens understanding the Bible. While I'd be happy to provide it, I know it will fall on deaf ears.

What are you trying to prevent?

Ignorance, a lack of essential knowledge in public school education. (I've already explained this.)

The woke agenda will be replaced with an understanding of the Bible and its historical and ongoing role of our Christian nation. Doctrine does not need to be taught, only factual knowledge of the book, e.g.,

1. What is the Bible?
2. How many books in the OT?
3. How many books in the NT?
4. Who wrote the Pentateuch?
5. What are the 10 Commandments?
6. God created humans male and female (not 57 genders).
7. Why do some denominations have a different number of books?
8. Who are the Patriarchs?
9. Who are the major prophets?
10. The connection between the Bible and the development of rights in Christian nations within Western Civilization.
11. What is the central message of the Gospels?
12. Who is the Son of God and what does this mean?

The rewrite supposes rights, liberty was an idea developed by secular atheists and are really privileges given by the State. This re-write is false. Our rights do not come from man or the State but from our Creator. Government is often the enemy of liberty, which is why it must be limited.

There seems to be no reasoning with you.....you are blinded to anything that fights with your own patriotic indoctrination.

Look in the mirror sweetheart. Because you are blinded by over-spiritualization, there is no reasoning with you.

 

[Bob]

No. Your implied premises are rejected. We are free to choose but not free from the consequences of that choice. Oklahoma is merely improving the education of its citizens. There is nothing dictatorial or hypocritical about it. (My, how you twist things!)

Reading comprehension includes understanding the words as the author intended them to mean, not substitute with whatever meaning propagandists promote. You know this to be true about the Bible. It is true for all literature.

The 1st Amendment language meant by the authors merely restricted the Creature of the Constitution to sponsor a Christian denomination as various Colonies did before the late Revolution. NOTE: The 1st Amendment restricts Congress, not the States from establishing a religion. To sponsor or establish a religion means 2 things: for tax dollars to pay for the denomination and to treat as law, proclamations by the clergy of that denomination with State power to impose penalties for violating such proclamations. These are both prohibited per the 1A.



Arrogant passive aggressiveness perhaps?! I am extremely well educated in the Founding Documents of the greatest country that ever was and educated more than one lawyer on the topic. I was amazed that not even lawyers were not taught the historical debates the Founding Father's had in crafting the words of Constitution as well as the Bill of Rights, for that is like a Biblical concordance, adding so much clarity and depth of understanding.



LOL Law has little effect without force. What an anarchist you are to imply all law should be abolished since "You cannot force people to do something against their will"





"Freedom of religion" is what I explained above regarding a restriction against a State Sponsor of a denomination. The "separation of church and State" IS the propagandist rewrite. Now that MAGA is back in power, a return to greatness is at hand. As Trump said, "make America religious again."

There is a mountain of evidence of the re-write and the importance America's leaders always placed on the citizens understanding the Bible. While I'd be happy to provide it, I know it will fall on deaf ears.


Ignorance, a lack of essential knowledge in public school education. (I've already explained this.)

The woke agenda will be replaced with an understanding of the Bible and its historical and ongoing role of our Christian nation. Doctrine does not need to be taught, only factual knowledge of the book, e.g.,

1. What is the Bible?
2. How many books in the OT?
3. How many books in the NT?
4. Who wrote the Pentateuch?
5. What are the 10 Commandments?
6. God created humans male and female (not 57 genders).
7. Why do some denominations have a different number of books?
8. Who are the Patriarchs?
9. Who are the major prophets?
10. The connection between the Bible and the development of rights in Christian nations within Western Civilization.
11. What is the central message of the Gospels?
12. Who is the Son of God and what does this mean?

The rewrite supposes rights, liberty was an idea developed by secular atheists and are really privileges given by the State. This re-write is false. Our rights do not come from man or the State but from our Creator. Government is often the enemy of liberty, which is why it must be limited.


Look in the mirror sweetheart. Because you are blinded by over-spiritualization, there is no reasoning with you.

O my. What has happened to gentle persuasion?

 

[Wrangler]

O my. What has happened to gentle persuasion?

You must be aware that Jesus did not always gently persuade. He called people snakes, vipers and even the devil. Does that sound gentle to you?

 

[Matthias]

Meet your Bible teacher, little children.

Does the Bible teach this?

Are there parents / teachers who believe that it does? Yes.

Are there parents / teachers who believe that it doesn’t? Yes. (I’m located here.)

A hypothetical:

Your child has enrolled in a Bible class where the teacher sincerely believes this is what the Bible teaches and will instruct the class with that understanding in mind. You discover this after the class work begins. What’s your move as a parent?

I would withdraw my child from the class, but perhaps the school would fire or reassign the teacher.

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Meet your new Bible teacher, little children.

A man highly trained and qualified to teach the Bible. He will do so from a Catholic perspective.

What’s your move as a parent?

 

[Matthias]

Will the Bible be taught as nothing more than literature?

Anything that goes beyond that is almost certain to run into major trouble.

 

[Bob]

You must be aware that Jesus did not always gently persuade. He called people snakes, vipers and even the devil. Does that sound gentle to you?

Thank you!

OK, you are correct, but: (a) what kind of people heard those epithets, (b) was His purpose to persuade, and (c) wouldn’t gentleness be more appropriate in this forum (Proverbs 15:1).

Some other social media are full of vitriolic exchanges etc. Who needs that? It is not clear what purpose they serves (OK, except for schadenfreude reading deserved put-downs).

Final Question (maybe a new topic?): What was Jesus trying to achieve with angry language directed toward enemies? (And might this contradict Love Your Enemies?)

Many blessings.

 

[WitnessX]

Good question. I drive according to the actual, real driving conditions. I don't drive as if, what if there were different driving conditions that what is actually happening on the road.

Those that watched Noah did as well. Take heed.

 

[Matthias]

What would you say if Elmer Gantry was teaching the Bible to your children? Would you be on board with that? (If you would, have you read the novel and / or watched the movie?)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Bible lessons in elementary school? Texas education board says yes

Schools will not be required to use the new curriculum, but will receive extra funding if they do.

www.bbc.com

more in Texas, this can be used to insert a theocratic cirriculem down the road as a trojan horse. How many times have we seen a law, or code, or statue come into excistance only to later justify something else entirely. Taxes, the Fed, many others in Americas history. Just like California passing a law that can prevent parents access to their children’s medical records if they are 12 or older, which was then used to hid the transgender agenda. Be careful handing authority to the “state”. It usually doesn’t end well.

This reminds me of the UN Charter adopted in the 80’s, called “The International Rights of the Child”. It was supposed to be a law (ratified by all member nations) to end child exploitation.....but did it?

We all know the answer to that......child exploitation both in the sex trade and in forced labor in some countries never ceased, but “the rights of the child” got addressed in the West, in ways we never thought of......giving children rights whilst stripping their parents of the right to parent or to discipline their spoilt brat children. What has this led to? The snowflake generation who are so used to getting their own way, that if anything goes wrong, it’s always someone else’s fault. They take no responsibility for their actions.

So if the school system wants to teach them practical life lessons along with the useless stuff they feed them, and perpetuate the bullying culture of the school system that forces them to attend, despite the awful downside, perhaps that is a good place to start. Why bother with the Bible? Teach them morals and manners and kindness. Basic human skills, lost in today’s “me first” world.

 

[Aunty Jane]

View attachment 52713

What would you say if Elmer Gantry was teaching the Bible to your children? Would you be on board with that? (If you would, have you read the novel and / or watched the movie?)

God help us!!!!

 

[Berean]

View attachment 52713

What would you say if Elmer Gantry was teaching the Bible to your children? Would you be on board with that? (If you would, have you read the novel and / or watched the movie?)

Because movies are always accurate, right?

 

[Matthias]

Because movies are always accurate, right?

Hardly. Have you never run across an Elmer Gantry type in your life?

Whether you have or you haven’t, would you be okay with someone like him teaching the Bible to school children?