How many kingdoms in Daniel?

[CTK]

You are telling us what you want Scripture to say. That is your opinion.

Interpretation is opinion.

The 5 kingdoms are represented by the 5 different sections of the image.

Gold
Silver
Bronze
Iron
Iron and clay mixed.

Now you will reply with your opinion that Daniel only mentioned 4 , and there cannot be 5.

Take care.

 

[Timtofly]

I think you mean well, but the kingdom of Christ is not going to go into perdition [destruction].
Think it through, and don't allow "the wisdom of men" in church-ianity, sway you from the mind of Christ that is within you! 1Cor. 2:5, 16.
Rev. 27[11] And the [4th] beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth [head], and is of the seven [heads], and goeth into perdition.


When the 7th Trumpet sounds, it will look exactly like KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10. Please notice the word "when", that is written twice in those verses. It will be a SIMULTANEOUS event of destruction for ALL the unsaved, and redemption for ALL the saved.
2 Peter 3 provides the specific details, that shall take place on THAT Day.

Why not just quote what actually happens at the 7th Trumpet?

The 7th Kingdom is not one of the heads of this 7 headed human government.

The 8th Kingdom is the 7th head.

Satan is not the 8th head, because there are only 7 heads. Satan is the 8th Kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

Well, since Jesus will be coming [suddenly] in [everlasting] flaming [fiery] fire, I would say that His everlasting fire will definitely ignite and burn up the entirety of this world, including the earth itself, making it into a literal lake of fiery lava.
Again, see 2 Peter 3 about that day.

So just ignore the issue with the previous passage and red herring your way out with a new one? You always do that. 2 Peter 3 doesn't support your views anymore than 2Th1:9 does.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the being punished with everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

 

[Earburner]

Why not just quote what actually happens at the 7th Trumpet?

The 7th Kingdom is not one of the heads of this 7 headed human government.

The 8th Kingdom is the 7th head.

Satan is not the 8th head, because there are only 7 heads. Satan is the 8th Kingdom.

I don't know what you are describing.

First of all, one has to know exactly who each of the 4 beasts were/are, which can be far different than the 8 heads themselves.

In order for God to keep His Son's name secret, since the beginning of the world, HE is known for speaking in conundrums.

Dan. 8
[3] Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a RAM which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
[4] I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

[5] And as I was considering, behold, an HE GOAT came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat HAD a NOTABLE HORN between his eyes.
[6] And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. [Alexander the Great was that "notable horn" on the "He-goat"].

Macedonia ‑ Empire, Map & Greece | HISTORY

Macedonia is a historic region that spans northern Greece and the Balkan Peninsula and was once the center of a sprawling empire under Alexander the Great.

www.history.com

[7] And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

[8] Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great [notable] horn was broken; and for it [in it's stead] came up FOUR notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[9] And out of ONE of THEM [of the four heads] came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land [Israel].
[10] And it [the little horn] waxed great, even to the host of heaven [Israel's army]; and it cast down some of the host [army of Israel] and of the stars [military leaders] to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[11] Yea, he [the little horn] magnified himself even to the prince of the host [Judas Maccabeus], and by him [the little horn] the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[12] And an host [an army] was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the
transgression [abomination] of desolation, to give BOTH the sanctuary and the host [army of Israel] to be trodden under foot? [Dan. 11:31]
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred [2300 litera] DAYS; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. 1 Maccabees chs. 1-6

1st beast- Lion- Babylon, having 1 HEAD of a Lion- Dan. 2:38. Dan. 7:4
2nd beast- FEET OF a BEAR- Medio/Persia, having 1 HEAD of a Ram- Dan. 7:4
> Now, pay attention to the evolution of the 3rd beast:
> 3RD beast- Grecian Empire- 1 HEAD of a He-goat, with a notable horn ("the FIRST king") Dan. 8:5-9, 21-24. Being the 1st king of a total of 5 kings.
> 3RD beast- Grecian Empire evolved into a Leopard, the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, having 4 HEADS. Dan. 7:6- After this I beheld, and lo ANOTHER [BEAST], like a leopard.
ALL totalled, that is 7 Heads.

Q. So then, though the 4th beast was the Roman Empire, as described in Daniel, where is that 8th HEAD of the 4th beast, the Roman Empire, that has 10 horns??
A. It is found in the Composite Sea beast with 10 horns, as the 8th HEAD, who IS OF THE 7 HEADS. Rev. 13:1-3.
Rev. 17[11] And the beast that WAS [the Roman Empire], and is not [not present as the Roman Empire], EVEN HE IS the eighth [head], and is OF the seven, and goeth into perdition.

EDIT: here are two scriptural clues of what the 8th head will finally show itself to be:
Mat. 22:17-21; Rev. 13:17.
A Global Economic Empire, for 42 months.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't know what you are describing.

First of all, one has to know exactly who each of the 4 beasts were/are, which can be far different than the 8 heads themselves.

In order for God to keep His Son's name secret, since the beginning of the world, HE is known for speaking in conundrums.

Dan. 8
[3] Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a RAM which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
[4] I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

[5] And as I was considering, behold, an HE GOAT came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat HAD a NOTABLE HORN between his eyes.
[6] And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. [Alexander the Great was that "notable horn" on the "He-goat"].

Macedonia ‑ Empire, Map & Greece | HISTORY

Macedonia is a historic region that spans northern Greece and the Balkan Peninsula and was once the center of a sprawling empire under Alexander the Great.

www.history.com

[7] And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

[8] Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great [notable] horn was broken; and for it [in it's stead] came up FOUR notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[9] And out of ONE of THEM [of the four heads] came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land [Israel].
[10] And it [the little horn] waxed great, even to the host of heaven [Israel's army]; and it cast down some of the host [army of Israel] and of the stars [military leaders] to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[11] Yea, he [the little horn] magnified himself even to the prince of the host [Judas Maccabeus], and by him [the little horn] the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[12] And an host [an army] was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the
transgression [abomination] of desolation, to give BOTH the sanctuary and the host [army of Israel] to be trodden under foot? [Dan. 11:31]
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred [2300 litera] DAYS; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

1st beast- Lion- Babylon, having 1 HEAD of a Lion- Dan. 2:38. Dan. 7:4
2nd beast- FEET OF a BEAR- Medio/Persia, having 1 HEAD of a Ram- Dan. 7:4
> Now, pay attention to the evolution of the 3rd beast:
> 3RD beast- Grecian Empire- 1 HEAD of a He-goat, with a notable horn ("the FIRST king") Dan. 8:5-9, 21-24. Being the 1st king of a total of 5 kings.
> 3RD beast- Grecian Empire evolved into a Leopard, the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, having 4 HEADS. Dan. 7:6- After this I beheld, and lo ANOTHER [BEAST], like a leopard.
ALL totalled, that is 7 Heads.

Q. So then, though the 4th beast was the Roman Empire, as described in Daniel, where is that 8th HEAD of the 4th beast, the Roman Empire, that has 10 horns??
A. It is found in the Composite Sea beast with 10 horns, as the 8th HEAD, who IS OF THE 7 HEADS. Rev. 13:1-3.
Rev. 17[11] And the beast that WAS [the Roman Empire], and is not [not present as the Roman Empire], EVEN HE is the eighth [head], and is OF the seven, and goeth into perdition.

EDIT: here are two scriptural clues of what the 8th head will finally show itself to be:
Mat. 22:17-21; Rev. 13:17.
A Global Economic Empire, for 42 months.

8 heads are never described in any Scripture, and certainly not in Revelation.

The dragon only had 7 heads. The sea beast only had 7 heads. The scarlet colored beast only had 7 heads. That does not mean 8 heads, nor 21 heads. There are only 7 heads.

The 7th head will be an 8th kingdom.

The 7th Kingdom is not part of any human government nor mentioned as a head of any beast.

None of the 7 heads will be the 7th Kingdom.

When the image in Daniel 2 is destroyed that is at the end of the 5th kingdom, which is the point 5 are fallen. That happened in the 15th century, and we know the movement as the Reformation. The 6th head and kingdom has had a mortal wound for the last 500+ years.


The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the 7th World Kingdom, as King over every nation. If there is an 8th kingdom, it will be Satan's mystery Babylon based on the throne of Jesus in Jerusalem.

You are trying to get 8 heads out of 7. There are only 7 heads period. No one represents the 6th head, because it has a mortal wound.

That wound will be healed after the Second Coming. But only in an opposition effort against Jesus in Jerusalem. Most here deny Jesus is even on the earth setting up His kingdom. They claim Jesus already did that back in the first century.

Most are looking for a human instead of Satan, thus they are already deceived as to what will happen at the Second Coming. That won't matter as their salvation is not based on their eschatology, but the grace of God.

 

[Earburner]

The 7th head will be an 8th kingdom.

That is exactly what I am saying.

During it's rule as the 4th beast, the Roman Empire (being of the 7 heads), was already the 8th head of ITSELF, having ten horns, when it was wounded by a sword, and yet lived.

Edit:
With the 8th head still alive, Satan has pushed it up on to the world stage many times.
Eastern and Western Europe.
RCC and the Vatican.
Nazi Germany and Europe.
The League of Nations.
NATO.
The UN.
The European Union.
All of it has evolved into what is now the Composite Sea beast, having TEN HORNS. Those ten horns in it's head, IS REVEALING that the HEAD of the Roman Empire, with it's 10 horns is now within the Composite Sea beast.

The 8th head NEVER died, for if it had, we would be looking for a 9th head, but we are not!!

So then, since the 8th head has been alive all this time, ever since the Roman Empire collapsed, we are to understand that for at least 1500 years, the 8th head has "gone underground", "incognito" and is always "in the shadows".
We have words today that reveal it, such as: the "deep state", the "shadow government", the "Illuminati", the "Global Elite", etc.

Do you want to say "Conspiracy theory"?
Go ahead!! The 8th head of the Composite Sea beast (Rev. 13:1-3) loves it when you do call it that.
Satan HATES the "light", because he has been waging spiritual warfare in all the world. And for him, what better way than to stay incognito, and launch his conspiracies AGAINST all people through their govenments, and now today, through the propaganda News media outlets, in light speed.
Oh yes, he is masking himself "as an angel of light", who is "the prince of the power of the air" (microwave technology).

 

[Earburner]

8 heads are never described in any Scripture, and certainly not in Revelation.

The dragon only had 7 heads. The sea beast only had 7 heads. The scarlet colored beast only had 7 heads. That does not mean 8 heads, nor 21 heads. There are only 7 heads.

Slowly read the words:
Rev. 17
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless [endless] pit [grave/death], and go into
perdition [destruction]: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms], on which the woman [Israel] sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was [the Roman Empire], and is not [the Roman Empire], even he [itself, which was wounded and lived] is the eighth [head], and is of the seven [heads], and goeth into perdition.

 

[Earburner]

Most are looking for a human instead of Satan, thus they are already deceived as to what will happen at the Second Coming. That won't matter as their salvation is not based on their eschatology, but the grace of God.

As no man is allowed to see God, except through Jesus, who is the "express image" of God the Father, so also does satan operate in the same manner, through that of an image of his construction.
As he did say: "I will be LIKE the Most High".
Therefore, satan also has an "express image" of himself, but it's not to be seen by the pathway of religious thinking in any way.

 

[ewq1938]

As no man is allowed to see God

Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”

 

[Earburner]

Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”

John 5[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Somebody is lying.

 

[ewq1938]

John 5[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Somebody is lying.

Or someone doesn't understand scripture. Christ is talking to certain people in John 5, not everyone as you are misusing it. Moses and Isaiah both say people have seen God.




Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”

 

[Timtofly]

That is exactly what I am saying.

During it's rule as the 4th beast, the Roman Empire (being of the 7 heads), was already the 8th head of ITSELF, having ten horns, when it was wounded by a sword, and yet lived.

Edit:
With the 8th head still alive, Satan has pushed it up on to the world stage many times.
Eastern and Western Europe.
RCC and the Vatican.
Nazi Germany and Europe.
The League of Nations.
NATO.
The UN.
The European Union.
All of it has evolved into what is now the Composite Sea beast, having TEN HORNS. Those ten horns in it's head, IS REVEALING that the HEAD of the Roman Empire, with it's 10 horns is now within the Composite Sea beast.

The 8th head NEVER died, for if it had, we would be looking for a 9th head, but we are not!!

So then, since the 8th head has been alive all this time, ever since the Roman Empire collapsed, we are to understand that for at least 1500 years, the 8th head has "gone underground", "incognito" and is always "in the shadows".
We have words today that reveal it, such as: the "deep state", the "shadow government", the "Illuminati", the "Global Elite", etc.

Do you want to say "Conspiracy theory"?
Go ahead!! The 8th head of the Composite Sea beast (Rev. 13:1-3) loves it when you do call it that.
Satan HATES the "light", because he has been waging spiritual warfare in all the world. And for him, what better way than to stay incognito, and launch his conspiracies AGAINST all people through their govenments, and now today, through the propaganda News media outlets, in light speed.
Oh yes, he is masking himself "as an angel of light", who is "the prince of the power of the air" (microwave technology).

No you are not. Rome was the 4th head. The Holy Roman Empire was the 5th head, and all have fallen.

The 6th head has a mortal wound, and Satan is the 7th head.

Rome was not the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th kingdom. Rome was only the 4th kingdom, and fell, giving way to the 5th kingdom. The 5th kingdom fell, and gave way to the 6th kingdom. The 6th kingdom has not fallen, just mortally wounded. Satan will heal that wound after the Second Coming.

There is no 8th head. There are only 7 heads. The dragon only had 7 heads. The sea beast only had 7 heads. The scarlet colored beast only had 7 heads. And they all are the same 7 heads. Rome was the 4th head of the dragon, the 4th head of the sea beast, and the 4th head of the scarlet colored beast, because all 3 are the same 6 historical kingdoms of men. The 7th head is Satan, and he will be the 8th kingdom, only if God allows it. The 8th kingdom is not a sure thing, but a prophecied kingdom that may happen. Or it may not happen.

The 7th head has been Satan who has been around since day 4 of creation. The serpent in the Garden. Who convinced a third of the stars to leave the firmament. Who wanted to bring harm to Job, because he thought Job had things too easy. Who has deceived humanity to forget Genesis and turn to science that is not even real, but contrary to the Word of God. Who tempted Jesus. So yes, he has been at work influencing each and every other kingdom of mankind. Only 6 earthly kingdoms since Daniel lived.

 

[Timtofly]

Slowly read the words:
Rev. 17
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms], on which the woman [Israel] sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was [the Roman Empire], and is not [the Roman Empire], even he [itself, which was wounded and lived] is the eighth [head], and is of the seven [heads], and goeth into perdition.

No this way:

[11] And the beast that was [Satan], and is not [Satan is not a human], even he [Satan] is the eighth kingdom, and is of the seven [6 earthly kingdoms and Satan], and goeth into perdition.

 

[Timtofly]

As no man is allowed to see God, except through Jesus, who is the "express image" of God the Father, so also does satan operate in the same manner, through that of an image of his construction.
As he did say: "I will be LIKE the Most High".
Therefore, satan also has an "express image" of himself, but it's not to be seen by the pathway of religious thinking in any way.

Satan is just an angel. Nothing else, and nothing more.

 

[Stumpmaster]

No this way:

[11] And the beast that was [Satan], and is not [Satan is not a human], even he [Satan] is the eighth kingdom, and is of the seven [6 earthly kingdoms and Satan], and goeth into perdition.

Satan is a separate entity from the two beasts of Revelation 13.

 

[Galgal]

Chapter 7

Dream Sequence:

3And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet.

Here, Daniel is given his own dream where God reveals the same 4 and only 4 kingdoms that come out of the sea (instability / turmoil). It also confirms the 4th beast kingdom of iron (pagan Rome) is the same 4th kingdom that is so destructive as the 4th kingdom in Chapter 2. And notice, there is no mention whatsoever of a 5th kingdom.



4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome):

11“I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Here, Daniel is telling us the 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body destroyed. The timing of this is approx.. 476 BC. The “rest of the beasts” (Babylon, Medes-Persians and Greece) will never again come to power and rule over another kingdom, but of course, they (people, culture, etc.,) will continue living.

4th beast kingdom (papal Rome):

17‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four [h]kings which arise out of the earth. 19“Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke Daniel 7 NKJVpompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

Once again, Daniel confirm there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms / beasts that come out of the earth (God has selected these 4 and only 4 kingdoms to reveal His plan of salvation in). However, Daniel is having difficulty recognizing this [new / different] 4th beast; it was different from “all the others,” and here “the others” would include pagan Rome which he saw before it was slain. These verses reveal the 4 kingdoms AFTER pagan Rome was slain and its body was destroyed. Still 4 kingdoms but this [new or replaced power] now is revealed not only with “teeth of iron” but now with “nails of bronze.” Now, this 4th beast kingdom has 10 horns coming out of it and a little horn coming out of it after the 10. This “4th beast” doesn’t look at all like the 4th beast he saw earlier. In Chapter 2, the Stone broke into pieces the iron and clay within the feet. As a consequence of the only event in Chapter 2, we find in Chapter 7 there are now two additional entities that have “come out” of pagan Rome (BEFORE the demise of pagan Rome) – the 10 horns and the little horn.


Interpretation Sequence:

23“Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,

Here is the Chapter 7 interpretation sequence, Gabriel reveals the truth about this [new] 4th kingdom that Daniel does not recognize and wants to know more about. This 4th beast will be different from “all the other kingdoms” – this would include pagan Rome but Gabriel still tells him there are only 4. But there will be 10 kings that WERE earlier referred to as “horns,” and another “little horn” that shall arise after them who will subdue 3 of the 10. Apparently, the “little horn” has grown in power and has now subdued 3 of the 10 that came out of pagan Rome initially.

This is not true.

4 spirits fought for power over the "sea", that is, over this world.

1st beast, like a lion, is Judaism.

2nd beast, like a bear, is Islam. "Meat" is flesh, a lot of carnal ritual, five-time daily prayers. Islam has 3 "horns" in its mouth, which it tore from the back of the 4th beast.

3rd beast, like a leopard, are Eastern religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Shintoism).

4th beast are three Christian denominations. 10 "horns" are 10 commandments, this is typical for Christianity (Judaism has 613 commandments). The first 3 commandments, about monotheism, were destroyed in the 4th century, when Caesar replaced God in Christianity. In 2 Esdras it is confirmed that this beast is the three confessions of Christianity, where this beast is shown as an eagle with three heads. The second feather, who reigned the longest, is Caesar Augustus (and the "heads" were still asleep at that time, the Roman religion did not adapt the Gospel to the needs of the empire).

In Revelation, the "beast from the sea" combines the features of all religions. Worldly people still consider themselves adherents of the religions of their fathers, but in fact they are all the same, all serve their mammon, build a world system of the "beast" for prosperity without God. The difference between the beast from Revelation and the 4th beast in Daniel is that the 10 horns of the beast in Revelation are anti-commandments, each opposite to one of the 10 commandments of God. For example, the anti-commandments "Mammon, property is your god", "have no rest day or night, doing business", "steal" (usury, bank interest, as well as "surplus value"), "kill in wars", "desire as much of everything as possible, be inflamed with lusts through advertising".

 

[Earburner]

Or someone doesn't understand scripture. Christ is talking to certain people in John 5, not everyone as you are misusing it. Moses and Isaiah both say people have seen God.




Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”

I perceive that they saw the preincarnate Christ, God the Son, and not God the Father Himself.

 

[Earburner]

This is not true.

4 spirits fought for power over the "sea", that is, over this world.

1st beast, like a lion, is Judaism.

2nd beast, like a bear, is Islam. "Meat" is flesh, a lot of carnal ritual, five-time daily prayers. Islam has 3 "horns" in its mouth, which it tore from the back of the 4th beast.

3rd beast, like a leopard, are Eastern religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Shintoism).

4th beast are three Christian denominations. 10 "horns" are 10 commandments, this is typical for Christianity (Judaism has 613 commandments). The first 3 commandments, about monotheism, were destroyed in the 4th century, when Caesar replaced God in Christianity. In 2 Esdras it is confirmed that this beast is the three confessions of Christianity, where this beast is shown as an eagle with three heads. The second feather, who reigned the longest, is Caesar Augustus (and the "heads" were still asleep at that time, the Roman religion did not adapt the Gospel to the needs of the empire).

In Revelation, the "beast from the sea" combines the features of all religions. Worldly people still consider themselves adherents of the religions of their fathers, but in fact they are all the same, all serve their mammon, build a world system of the "beast" for prosperity without God. The difference between the beast from Revelation and the 4th beast in Daniel is that the 10 horns of the beast in Revelation are anti-commandments, each opposite to one of the 10 commandments of God. For example, the anti-commandments "Mammon, property is your god", "have no rest day or night, doing business", "steal" (usury, bank interest, as well as "surplus value"), "kill in wars", "desire as much of everything as possible, be inflamed with lusts through advertising".

When will all professing Christians realize that the "Composite Sea Beast" in Rev. 13:1-3 is NOT about RELIGION!!
It's about the LAST and final manifestation of that Beast, in the secular form of a Global ECONOMIC Empire, for a period of 42 months.
Rev. 13
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
1. The mark is for individuals.
2. The name is for governments.
3. The number is for businesses.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan is a separate entity from the two beasts of Revelation 13.

Which 2 beast?

The dragon is just a different view of the beast out of the sea. The dragon and the sea beast are not literal, but symbolic of Satan and the 6 kingdoms from Babylon until the Second Coming.

Satan is the only beast that comes in and out of the pit, as that pit is Satan's home, like heaven is Jesus' home.

The image brought to life is also a beast in the book of Revelation.

The image and Satan are two individuals in Revelation 13 referred to as beast, but are not symbolic.

The false prophet is called the mouth, or spokesman of the sea beast, a human and not a beast.

Many posters want to claim some elaborate interpretation of how a human antichrist comes out of the grave or was healed after being dead. None of that is what John wrote. Some want to claim Rome is the beast that has always been. John never even talks about Rome. Some say the whole book is code about Rome. No, because the book is about the the Second Coming from chapters 4 and on. Rome was not even in the list of churches, that needed attention, and who the book was sent to. If Rome was part of the book, then it should have been one of the 7 churches, but Rome was not in the list. Certainly there was a church in Rome. There was a church in Corinth. There was a church in Thessalonica. There was a church in Alexandria. There were many churches throughout the Roman empire, but only the 7 listed made it into the book of Revelation, and they received a letter containing the text, which was then copied from that point on and sent many other places.

Revelation was not about the first century church troubles, other than those specifically mentioned in chapters 2 and 3. Revelation was about the Second Coming, the Day of the Lord, and a brand new creation to come after this creation no longer existed. Events pertaining to the end of Adam's punishment of sin and death.

It has been over 1900 years and we have no clue or a general consensus that any of Revelation, starting in chapter 4 has even taken place. We probably will figure things out when either 2 billion people are killed in a few short days or weeks, or the Second Coming has happened.

No one can post for certainty that we have already lived through Seals, Trumpets, and vials and have reached the end of those judgments. That is not how John wrote down the order of the events. Some refer to that as parallel views. None of these events pertained to events starting in the first century.

The events that John talked about involved seeing a time when Satan could come and go from an open pit, which was literally opened at the 5th Trumpet.

 

[Galgal]

When will all professing Christians realize that the "Composite Sea Beast" in Rev. 13:1-3 is NOT about RELIGION!!
It's about the LAST and final manifestation of that Beast, in the secular form of a Global ECONOMIC Empire, for a period of 42 months.
Rev. 13
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
1. The mark is for individuals.
2. The name is for governments.
3. The number is for businesses.

No.

The "mark of the beast" on the right hand is the habit of stealing, for example, bank usury, prohibited by the Law of Moses and even more prohibited for Christians, as well as the surplus value that the rich take from hired workers:

Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. (James 5:4)

"The mark of the beast" on the forehead is received by those who lie, for the devil is the father (head) of lies.

The name of the beast is given in the Bible itself:

εὑπορία = (5 + 400 + 80 + 70 + 100 + 10 + 1) = 666

For a certain [man] named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen; Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.
(Acts 19:24,25)

Name of the Beast: “Wealth” (KJV) or “Prosperity” (NASB). A hint pointing to this name:

If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. (1 Corinthians 15:32)

This verse refers us to the "beasts" who are the people, the makers of idols, the incident with which is described in the 19th chapter of Acts of the Apostles.

"The Number of the Beast" is a passport, ID, tax number, cadastral number - any identification of a person or organization in the state.

The beast from the sea is thousands of years old. This beast has 7 heads - 7 empires that enslaved the Jews: Ancient Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and the USA:

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (Revelation 17:10)

Now, as the confirmed false prophet Brandon Biggs predicted, the 7th head of the "beast", the USA, will receive a mortal wound in the form of the Great Crisis. But through the prayers of carnal believers, this "wound" will be healed, and then everyone will begin to build the world system of the "beast", the Kingdom of Prosperity, where benefits are given automatically, regardless of God.

Of course, the "beast from the sea" is not religion. It is the current descendants of religious ancestors who have merged into one whole in the current civilization, the whole purpose of which is Prosperity without God.