How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

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Skovand

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You are a teacher of” yourself,” Behold, said with respect, good day, Sir.
I can’t tell if that’s directed at me. If so. Here is the difference between me and many people. Not only have I been a Christian for most of my adult life but I have also taken tons of biblical studies courses at college and outside of college. I have read around 300 books by biblical scholars around the world from different countries, races, denominations and even by biblical scholars who are atheists. I’ve studied quite a bit into the development of the Bible. So I’m not a teacher of myself. I’m not even in an echo chamber. But what I do is let data, not dogma, guide me. Most Christians have not even read the entire Bible. Most Christians have not read it 50+ times. Even less have read the Torah 200+ times in numerous translations, with numerous scholarly interpretations through numerous commentaries. Most Christian have never even heard of Biblical seams as an aspect of contextual analysis at places like 1 Samuel 16&17 or studied the convergence of El and Yahweh into one being or of how things like Egyptian beliefs along with epics like that of Gilgamesh influenced the biblical authors. Very little have deep dived into the cultures and faiths of ancient near eastern world.

Even less have done all of that and got a degree in biology focused on evolutionary ecology with an emphasis on Appalachian habitat systems and coevolution. Most of what I say is something well recognized within the bulk of modern biblical scholarship.
 

Behold

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Oh to hear the words from God..music to his children’s ears.
Ephesians 1
B
4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence.


Notice that the "chose us"... is to be holy and blameless."

It does not say we are "chosen to be born again".



In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ,


Again..

The Predestining is "the Adoption".. not the initial born again.

The Adoption, is based on become "in Christ", first.. .so, the Adoption is predestine, not the becoming born again..



11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him

And again..

It says...."IN HIM">... we are Chosen.

So, you have to be "IN CHRIST">...first to be chose, and to be adopted and to be conformed.


Calvin twists those verses into..>"predestined to be born again, or predestined to not be born again".

Calvin is a Liar, and He's Satanic, and his theology, is a "doctrine of devils"... who gave it to Him.




 

Ritajanice

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I can’t tell if that’s directed at me. If so. Here is the difference between me and many people. Not only have I been a Christian for most of my adult life but I have also taken tons of biblical studies courses at college and outside of college. I have read around 300 books by biblical scholars around the world from different countries, races, denominations and even by biblical scholars who are atheists. I’ve studied quite a bit into the development of the Bible. So I’m not a teacher of myself. I’m not even in an echo chamber. But what I do is let data, not dogma, guide me. Most Christians have not even read the entire Bible. Most Christians have not read it 50+ times. Even less have read the Torah 200+ times in numerous translations, with numerous scholarly interpretations through numerous commentaries. Most Christian have never even heard of Biblical seams as an aspect of contextual analysis at places like 1 Samuel 16&17 or studied the convergence of El and Yahweh into one being or of how things like Egyptian beliefs along with epics like that of Gilgamesh influenced the biblical authors. Very little have deep dived into the cultures and faiths of ancient near eastern world.

Even less have done all of that and got a degree in biology focused on evolutionary ecology with an emphasis on Appalachian habitat systems and coevolution. Most of what I say is something well recognized within the bulk of modern biblical scholarship.
Thank you very much for your testimony/opinion. and how you have been educated, very interesting.
 

Behold

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Oh to hear the words from God..music to his children’s ears.

Here you go.

Ephesians 1

4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence.


1.)
Notice that the "chose us"... is to be " holy and blameless."

It does not say we are "chosen to be born again"., as lying Calvinism teaches


In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ,


Again..

2.) The Predestining is "the Adoption".. not the initial born again.

The Adoption, is based on becoming "in Christ", = first.. .so, the Adoption is predestined, not the becoming born again..



11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him

And again..

3.) It says...."IN HIM">... we are Chosen.

So, you have to be "IN CHRIST">...first = to THEN be " chosen", and to be adopted and to be conformed.



A.) Calvin twists those verses into..>"predestined to be born again, or predestined to not be born again".

Calvin is a Liar, and He's Satanic, and his theology, is a "doctrine of devils"... who gave it to Him.
 

Ritajanice

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When we are Born Again, we are adopted children of the most high.,our spirit is in Christ, ..spirit children, who can only be taught by the Holy Spirit, we reject all false prophet teaching.

The sheep know the voice of Jesus, they will have the gift of discernment and will run away from a strangers teachings/ voice.

For they are self seeking/ self appointed false prophets..who try to twist and manipulate the word of God.

Always test the spirits, as Gods word says.
 

Ritajanice

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John 15
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
Jesus the True Vine
(Isaiah 27:1–13)
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
No Greater Love
9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.
The Hatred of the World
18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’a If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this because of My name, since they do not know the One who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’b
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
 

Behold

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When we are Born Again, we are adopted children of the most

We we are born again, we become a "new Creation" in Christ, and we are adopted, and predestined to be conformed.

We are born again, which causes the born again Christian to become adopted, and also predestined to be "conformed".

So, all the pre-destining, happens, after you are born again "in Christ".

What Calvin did, was "pre-destine" THE becoming a Believer.....and that is the root rot, of his "doctrine of Devils".
 

amigo de christo

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When we are Born Again, we are adopted children of the most high.,our spirit is in Christ, ..spirit children, who can only be taught by the Holy Spirit, we reject all false prophet teaching.

The sheep know the voice of Jesus, they will have the gift of discernment and will run away from a strangers teachings/ voice.

For they are self seeking/ self appointed false prophets..who try to twist and manipulate the word of God.

Always test the spirits, as Gods word says.
always remember many can make this same claim and yet still they do not hear nor heed CHRIST .
of course i aint saying that about you . I am just reminding us .
The sheep DO KNOW the VOICE of JESUS , they do have discernment . A sheep knows
any voice that rejects the fact that one must FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
is a liar . Keep that in mind because sheep can sometimes get caught up into a dissumulation .
 

Ritajanice

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always remember many can make this same claim and yet still they do not hear nor heed CHRIST .
of course i aint saying that about you . I am just reminding us .
The sheep DO KNOW the VOICE of JESUS , they do have discernment . A sheep knows
any voice that rejects the fact that one must FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
is a liar . Keep that in mind because sheep can sometimes get caught up into a dissumulation .
Indeed, and the false prophets will never cease...spewing there false teachings..

We are to flee from them!
 
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Ritajanice

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The scripture below is talking about us, the gentiles who have been grafted into the true vine, Jesus.

John 15
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
Jesus the True Vine
(Isaiah 27:1–13)
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
No Greater Love

9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.
The Hatred of the World
18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’a If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this because of My name, since they do not know the One who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’b
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
 

amigo de christo

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Your verse is showing that Jesus, who is not Crucified yet... is talking to His Jewish Apostles, about choosing them.. for the ministry and for even more.

None of them are born again Yet.
not exactly . i mean YES they were not yet BORN again . but do remember JESUS even chose judas .
KNOWING FULL WELL what he was and what he would do .
My advice , however is that we flee calvin and many doctrines of men and rather fatten up our stomaches with THE BIBLE
AKA FEAST ON THEM WORDS for ourselves .
 
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amigo de christo

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The scripture below is talking about us, the gentiles who have been grafted into the true vine, Jesus.

John 15
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
Jesus the True Vine
(Isaiah 27:1–13)
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
No Greater Love

9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.
The Hatred of the World
18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’a If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this because of My name, since they do not know the One who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’b
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
the scripture is not to just the gentiles who beleive , I believe JESUS SAID THIS TO HIS OWN Jewish followers .
IT applies to us all dear sister . The church is not jew or gentile , its ONE which consists both of the believing jew and gentile
who are now made ONE IN CHRIST JESUS . dance a jig of praise to the glorious LORD .
 

amigo de christo

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The scripture below is talking about us, the gentiles who have been grafted into the true vine, Jesus.

John 15
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
Jesus the True Vine
(Isaiah 27:1–13)
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
No Greater Love

9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.
The Hatred of the World
18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’a If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this because of My name, since they do not know the One who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’b
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
Every one of those verses HE SPOKE TO HIS JEWISH followers and it DO APPLY to us all . as do every lovely WORD of the LORD .
 

Behold

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The scripture below is talking about us, the gentiles who have been grafted into the true vine, Jesus.
John 15

1

Ok then,

So, here is the thing.. You are trying to lead people into Calvinism....that's the bottom line.

There are 5 or 6 Calvinism Sellers who are all over this forum lately, trying to Sell Calvinism to anyone.

Whereas, Im trying to keep anyone from becoming its lifelong victim.

So, the Reader can find my posts, and they'll see yours and others, and they then decide, and discern.
 

Ritajanice

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Every one of those verses HE SPOKE TO HIS JEWISH followers and it DO APPLY to us all . as do every lovely WORD of the LORD .
Praise God, that we have been grafted into the true vine.

We know his truth and rebuke the teachings of self proclaimed teachers...who are only out to seek their own glory.

Self appointed prophets, beware what you accuse the brethren of.
 
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amigo de christo

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Praise God, that we have been grafted into the true vine.

We know his truth and rebuke the teachings of self proclaimed teachers...who are only out to seek their own glory.

Self appointed prophets, beware what you accuse the brethren of.
kinda sad when certain men accuse me of being full of ego and self when i expose their own ego and self .
You do realize there are men on this site
who come in and can use the name of JESUS but wont dare to remind anyone of the dire need to BELIEVE ON HIM
and when folks like me say WE MUST BELIEVE ON HIM they call us RELIGIOUS EGO FILLED pharisees and co workers with satan .
YOU MIGHT want to go and re examine some posts of a certain man rita .
As for me i am fully gonna keep on saying , I COULD DO and can do NUTTING WITHOUT CHRIST
and that ALL MUST BELIEVE ON HIM .
 

Ritajanice

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kinda sad when certain men accuse me of being full of ego and self when i expose their own ego and self .
You do realize there are men on this site
who come in and can use the name of JESUS but wont dare to remind anyone of the dire need to BELIEVE ON HIM
and when folks like me say WE MUST BELIEVE ON HIM they call us RELIGIOUS EGO FILLED pharisees and co workers with satan .
YOU MIGHT want to go and re examine some posts of a certain man rita .
As for me i am fully gonna keep on saying , I COULD DO and can do NUTTING WITHOUT CHRIST
and that ALL MUST BELIEVE ON HIM .
Brother,I know how much you love the Lord.
 

amigo de christo

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Praise God, that we have been grafted into the true vine.

We know his truth and rebuke the teachings of self proclaimed teachers...who are only out to seek their own glory.

Self appointed prophets, beware what you accuse the brethren of.
Rita you might need to be reminded of something .
On one angle BEHOLD IS DEAD ON SPOT ON RIGHT . as i too would warn you and all to flee calvin .
But i am so darn worried for behold too . I have seen errors , dangerous ones come out of him too .
My advice for all of us , for myself , you , him and anyone , START over in the bible and read it for ourselves .
Men have complicated the heck out of stuff . THEY Truly have and they been doing it for a very long time .
You are not being accused , i am simply doing all i do out of great love for all the people .
 
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