Does the Bible contradict itself? - Reader Poll (and discussion)

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does the Bible contradicts itself?

  • The Bible could NEVER contradict itself.

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • The Bible may SEEM to contradict itself at times.

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • The Bible does contradict itself, which bothers me greatly.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Bible does contradict itself, which doesn't bother me at all.

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Not sure. The Bible might contradict itself. Worth looking into.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,002
3,835
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
This exchange show cases the propensity for people to incorrectly categorize things as a contradiction. A contradiction is when 2 things cannot both be true at the same time and context. In this case, we are talking about 2 things that CAN be true at the same time, which is not a contradiction; the devil was defeated by Jesus and still roams around.

Given that the devil is a spiritual being, I'm not really sure what other kind of defeat he could suffer other than spiritual defeat. Anyway, point is, if we compare to prize fighters, the same is true. They can be defeated and still roam around.

This is another example that I was guarding against earlier, about taking the meaning of Scripture outside the context in which the words were given.
It appears that we were talking at cross purposes…..I understood the question to mean that the devil has been defeated in the world, as the Bible says he will be dealt with by God in his due time.

Peter warned that the devil is like a lion seek prey, so a Christian who lets down their guard is as easily taken by the devil as anyone else upon whom he can prey. (1 Peter 5:8)

2 Peter 2:220-22…
”Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”

This graphically illustrates the situation we are all in.

The defeat that satan suffers in a Christian’s life is indeed spiritual….but never to be taken for granted.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,599
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Contradictions verify the reliability of the Bible.
Can you clarify that? If you believe there is an actual (not merely apparent) contradiction in the Bible, please present it.

I’m sure it will be addressed by many very knowledgeable on the topic.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,002
3,835
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The idea that people are naturally bad? I think that's pretty much through the whole book.

Adam had his apple, and mankind was wiped out for wickedness in Noah's day. AFTER the flood, God said, "man's heart is evil from his youth." After that we have Israel making an idol at the base of Mt. Sinai and receiving the Law, which they then proceed to fail to keep for basically the rest of the Old Testament. John is beheaded, Jesus is crucified, and Paul says "all have sinned" and speaks of the evils of the "natural" man. This one is kind of a slam dunk... Are there Christians who don't believe that mankind does evil as his natural state?
Since Peter warned his fellow Christians about the devil seeking to devour us as his prey, as stated above to @Wrangler… we cannot let our guard down.

The apostle John wrote….
“We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”
I do not see where this situation was rescinded…..the power of the wicked one is still very evident in human behavior.
The depths of depravity and a craving for violence, bloodshed and immorality are evident in a world that is sinking to the same depths as those in Noah’s day….Jesus said it would be the same situation again when he was to return. (Matt 24:37-39) We are seeing it with our own eyes.

We often hear the word “inhuman” when these despicable acts are carried out upon fellow humans…what does “inhuman” mean? It means that it is not inherent in human nature to behave this way….IOW, it’s “not human”…..it comes from outside of humans to act in such a depraved manner. Sin is in us, but used by the devil to encourage us to go further that any human would or should….the line is blurred.

Who were responsible for the inhuman behavior of those in Noah’s day? It was the demons who influenced the humans back then, forcing God to take drastic action. It resulted in the whole of the human race at that time being wiped out. We are facing the same situation today as Jesus is about to take up his position as judge of all. He said that “few” would be found on the difficult road to life, whilst the majority would stay on the easy road, not realizing that it is a dead end. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)
When I look at the state of the world, I don't see that all that is wrong is because of the devil. People appear to be the cause of most wickedness.
The devil is still a “roaring lion” and as humans are born into the world, he is active in influencing them through his propaganda machine to behave in a way that is alien to Christ’s teachings.

At this point in history, mankind has never been more depraved…with less excuse…..there is no moral compass to guide anyone since our youth have been trained from infancy to follow the world.…and to disregard every decent thing that God promotes in his word. (1 John 2:15-17)

With the invention of social media we can see that he has an educational tool ‘par ecellence’…..used very effectively to influence our youth before they even have a chance to grow up and evaluate things for themselves…..they are coerced into compliance because those who are ‘different’ are ostracized, and bullied. How many young ones commit suicide because such a life is not worth living?!

The devil’s influence is still very much in evidence.

Don’t ever think that the devil will ever give up on leading us astray….his mission will only end when he is placed in confinement for a thousand years…..and only after he is released one last time to test the redeemed human race, will he be eliminated from existence, along with all he can ensnare at that time….to join those who failed to pass the test that will shortly take place, between the “sheep and the goats” In our day.

We can never let down our guard.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
St. SteVen said:
Contradictions verify the reliability of the Bible.
Can you clarify that? If you believe there is an actual (not merely apparent) contradiction in the Bible, please present it.
I was referring to this earlier quote.
Two witnesses to an event never necessarily agree on every detail. This discrepancy is considered by the justice system as being favourable as to the veracity of the event being witnessed, as opposed to a concocted story to boost someone's evil agenda.
I was looking for a similar quote that talked about police reports from eye witnesses and what was typical.
Contradictions are expected, and helpful.

[
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
New topic.


[
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,531
11,648
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
what did I add?
Did you notice that in your need to plausibly deny the contradiction, you had to invent some story about Judas hanging there long enough for his body to rot. That's not in the Bible; you had to add it.

Do you often add things to your Bible? I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book... (Revelation 22:18)

(Does anybody actually READ their Bible? Your invented story didn't even address the reported cause of death in Acts 1:18: Injuries sustained in a fall. Did Judas fall, or was he pushed? Can St. Simon the Zealot account for his whereabouts on the day that happened?)
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,531
11,648
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Contradictions verify the reliability of the Bible.

I would've said "the authenticity of the Bible". Wait, I not only would've said it; I already did say it.

In Matthias's thread, I stated that if God is sovereign (and I hope no one will disagree with that dogmatic assertion), then there is a reason He allowed these authentic contradictions and verse insertions like John 5:4 and such into the manuscript record. That made no sense to at least one reader, but spend some time thinking about: Why did God allow this to happen? One reason may be that authenticity DOES edify our confidence in the Bible's testimony. One reason may be to point away from the Book itself and towards Christ. No repeat of the Bronze Serpent incident in 2 Kings 18:4, though that implication may get some folks incensed. And one reason may be to keep us humble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did you notice that in your need to plausibly deny the contradiction, you had to invent some story about Judas hanging there long enough for his body to rot. That's not in the Bible; you had to add it.
You go ahead and explain what else may have happened?

Do you often add things to your Bible? I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book... (Revelation 22:18)
I look at the bible in a way that it asgrees with itself. If the bible is Gods word. it should be in agreement with itself. There should be no contradictions.

The fact there is any contradiction should be a fact check. We should see and know something we believe is in error and we should study and do what we have to do to resolve the contradiction. When the contradiction is resolved, we can be confident our interpretation is correct.

If people would do this. there would not be so many different beliefs. we should let the bible interpret the bible. not our crazy interpretations of the word..Don't you agree?
(Does anybody actually READ their Bible? Your invented story didn't even address the reported cause of death in Acts 1:18: Injuries sustained in a fall. Did Judas fall, or was he pushed? Can St. Simon the Zealot account for his whereabouts on the day that happened?)
If you are that worried about what happened, Then you have more issuies to take care of then I can help you with.

I can look. and know both events happened. I can Guess what happened. or try to determine elsewhere what happened. But I can know the bible is reliable. and not question it

You want to put doubt in the word. Feel free.

If I am honest with myself. people who do this are part of the problem. not the solution
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would've said "the authenticity of the Bible". Wait, I not only would've said it; I already did say it.

In Matthias's thread, I stated that if God is sovereign (and I hope no one will disagree with that dogmatic assertion), then there is a reason He allowed these authentic contradictions and verse insertions like John 5:4 and such into the manuscript record. That made no sense to at least one reader, but spend some time thinking about: Why did God allow this to happen? One reason may be that authenticity DOES edify our confidence in the Bible's testimony. One reason may be to point away from the Book itself and towards Christ. No repeat of the Bronze Serpent incident in 2 Kings 18:4, though that implication may get some folks incensed. And one reason may be to keep us humble.
Agree.
It just occurred to me that when Christians are challenged,
they typically cite the Bible instead of testifying to their relationship with God.
This makes an idol of the book, thus abandoning "the author".

Truth = chapter and verse?
(which may contradict someone else's chapter and verse)

[
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I look at the bible in a way that it asgrees with itself. If the bible is Gods word. it should be in agreement with itself. There should be no contradictions.
Let me suggest to you that "God's word" be understood as God's message to us rather than a verbatim dictation, leaving it to the human authors to wordsmith the message. Then the contradictions (including those mentioned in Post #94) are no longer problematic. Simple. Logical. Far more logical than your assumption that God moved the human writer's hand to produce each and every word exactly as God dictated. Far more logical than your assumption that "God-breathed" means inerrant (a la Adam, who Gen. 2:7 tells us was also God-breathed -- yet erred famously.)

You want to put doubt in the word. Feel free.

You want to continue treating the Bible as though it were handed down on stone tablets from the mountain top. Feel free.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Can you clarify that? If you believe there is an actual (not merely apparent) contradiction in the Bible, please present it.

I’m sure it will be addressed by many very knowledgeable on the topic.
Here's a good response from @RedFan
Seriously? What context explains whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal (Mark 14:12, Mark 14:16-17, Matthew 26:17, Matthew 26:19-20, Luke 22:7–9, Luke 22:13-14), or was eaten the day before Passover (John 13:1, John 18:28, John 19:14)? What context explains whether Judas hanged himself (Matt. 27:5) or fell into a field where his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)? What context explains whether the centurion who wanted Jesus to heal his servant approached Jesus in person (Matthew 8:5-13) or sent an intermediary (Luke 7:2-10)? What context explains whether there were two demoniacs whose demons were sent into a herd of swine (Matt 8:28) or only one (Mark 5:2, Luke 8:27)? What context explains whether the transfiguration was six days after the promise of Jesus that “some standing here will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1-2), or eight days later (Luke 9:28)? What context explains whether “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it” (1 Samuel 31:4) or whether “the Philistines killed Saul on Gilboa” (2 Samuel 21:12)? What context explains whether Jesse had seven sons (1 Chronicles 2:13-15) or eight (1 Samuel 16:10-11)? What context explains whether Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign (2 Kings 8:26) or forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)? What context explains whether Solomon had 4,000 horse stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25) or 40,000 (1 Kings 4:26)? What context explains whether Moses’ sending spies into Canaan was suggested by God (Numbers 13:1-2,) or by the people (Deuteronomy 1:22)? What context explains whether Joseph’s lineage is traced from David through Solomon (Matt. 1:6) or through Nathan (Luke 3:31)? What context explains whether Jesus allowed Mary Magdalene to touch him after his resurrection (Matt. 28:9), or told her not to (John 20:17)?
This is from Source post #94 this topic.

[
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let me suggest to you that "God's word" be understood as God's message to us rather than a verbatim dictation, leaving it to the human authors to wordsmith the message.
So a flawed message ok I got it
Then the contradictions (including those mentioned in Post #94) are no longer problematic.
It is hugely problematic

1 it taints the message and puts it in doubt
2 it leaves is unable to know the truth we have to listen to men and try to chose the right interpretation
Simple. Logical. Far more logical than your assumption that God moved the human writer's hand to produce each and every word exactly as God dictated. Far more logical than your assumption that "God-breathed" means inerrant (a la Adam, who Gen. 2:7 tells us was also God-breathed -- yet erred famously.)
Lol

So a tainted flawed word of God is fr more logical then god giving us his word and making sure it is correct and does not contradict itself

Ok. Whatever
You want to continue treating the Bible as though it were handed down on stone tablets from the mountain top. Feel free.
I want to believe I can trust the word. And when we see things like James say we re saved by faith plus works and Paul saying faith not works. I can trust there is a reason and not just blow away well humans wrote it so it to be understood it is not perfect
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agree.
It just occurred to me that when Christians are challenged,
they typically cite the Bible instead of testifying to their relationship with God.
This makes an idol of the book, thus abandoning "the author".

Truth = chapter and verse?
(which may contradict someone else's chapter and verse)

[
This is sad

But doctrinal issues like we see here. The Bible is the only thing we can trust. Yet here re you and others throwing doubt we can even trust it
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It does not agree with itself, so you should reassess your initial assumptions.

Can you deal with it?
Yes it does. I have yet to find anyplace where it contradicts itself

I have had a lot of people deny this and try to attack the word with contradictions. But still have not found one spit

You want to trust an untrustworthy bible feel free