Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Ritajanice]

The 'Stiff necked' are not chosen.

If I may say @Carl Emerson ...I too have been stiff necked, most of which was done out of ignorance...not deliberately disobeying God.

I would never do that..deliberately, disobey God.....even though you say they are the non chosen, respectfully I disagree.

At the end of the day, we are all voicing opinions.on what we believe the word of God to be saying.

 

[Ritajanice]

He encountered Irresistible Love that changed His life completely.

That is the only Love that can change us, from the inside out...we must be Born Of God’s seed, which will penetrate the heart of his child, immediately God has them in spirit,..that seed that was planted in our heart, will start its journey growing and maturing in Christ, imo.

We grow in Gods Love...the ways of the worlds love is death, imo.

Even we still speak in the old man at times,as we can see on this thread...when we insult another..

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with one another and forgive any complaint you may have against someone else. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.
16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If I may say @Carl Emerson ...I too have been stiff necked, most of which was done out of ignorance...not deliberately disobeying God.

I would never do that..deliberately, disobey God.....even though you say they are the non chosen, respectfully I disagree.

At the end of the day, we are all voicing opinions.on what we believe the word of God to be saying.

Yes I agree but I think the stiff necked in Scripture are unbelievers...

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes I agree but I think the stiff necked in Scripture are unbelievers...

Ah, ok, thanks Carl.

 

[Ritajanice]

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him

 

[Behold]

So you don't believe in Irresistible Love

God is Love, but He does not irresistibly cause anyone to believe in His Son.

See that Cross of Christ?

That is an OFFER. to "WHOSOEVER"/

See John 3:16 for the update.

- When Paul encountered Jesus on the Road

Paul ended up on the ground, and blind for 3 days.

What Paul reacted to, later, was the OFFER, once He understood it, and that didnt happen on "the Road".

 

[Carl Emerson]

God is Love, but He does not irresistibly cause anyone to believe in His Son.

See that Cross of Christ?

That is an OFFER. to "WHOSOEVER"/

See John 3:16 for the update.




Paul ended up on the ground, and blind for 3 days.

What Paul reacted to, later, was the OFFER, once He understood it, and that didnt happen on "the Road".

Paul encountered the Love of God on the road to confirm what he was already sensing in his conscience.

God is Love.

And your telling me he could have resisted that !!! Nonsense...

 

[Carl Emerson]

1. Acts 2:39
   For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as manyas the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
   
   
2. Acts 13:48
   When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as manyas had been appointed to eternal life believed.
   

 

[Ritajanice]

Always best to get the right word, from the word of God.​

​

Acts 9​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
30 Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.
33 And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy.
34 And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately.
35 And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned to the Lord.
36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
43 And it came to pass, that he tarried many days in Joppa with one Simon a tanner

 

[Behold]

Paul encountered the Love of God on the road to confirm what he was already sensing in his conscience.

Paul sat in a room, after the "road" situation, and was blind and was clueless.

If you read Acts 9, you'll find that Paul didnt understand the situation, and didn't know yet, that He was called by Jesus.
But, he had received a Vision, of Ananias coming to him, and Jesus told Ananias about this, and told Him to explain things to Paul.
Once Paul heard it all, He BELIEVED, and was baptized.

And your telling me he could have resisted that !!!

The Bible tells you He could have resisted it., as Millions are resisting the Call of God right now, including a lot of Jews.

Acts 7, shows us 2 generations of Jews who resisted the Holy Spirit.

Paul had also been resisting the HS, and Jesus told him so.....>"is it hard to kick against the pricks".. He asked Paul.
That is the Holy Spirit doing that inside Paul.... as the "conviction of the Holy Spirit" and Paul had been resisting the HS.

So, Paul eventually gave His faith to God in Christ.....but not because it was impossible for Him not to believe.
Paul didnt have to believe, exactly as Jesus didnt have to go to the Cross.
They both CHOSE.
See, that is how FREE WILL operates.. We get to CHOOSE what we do.
Paul made a Choice....and a big part of that has to do with something Supernatural occurring to Paul ........as Jesus personally visited Paul, and continue to do it.
In fact Jesus did this again, and gave """the Gospel of the Grace of God"", to Paul. And Paul wrote about it, and said... "i received my Gospel from no man.. but by Revelation from Jesus Himself".

 

[Carl Emerson]

If you read Acts 9, you'll find that Paul didnt understand the situation

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

He followed the instructions of His Loving God - Jesus.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes for sure - my salvation was never lost.

We need another term - 'lapsed Christian' for a season ??

Indeed. I have heard the term "backsliding" many times; you probably have, too. And, God can remove His countenance from us for a time if He so chooses, for disciplinary purposes, but this does not entail losing our salvation, of course.

I think these are the folks that Heb 6 speaks about. They were in fellowship, tasted the blessings, but never experienced rebirth...

Agree.

By the way, I can't remember if you raised this @PinSeeker but John 1 dismisses being born again being associated with 'freewill'

13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Absolutely agree. And this verse is very much parallel to Paul's in reference to one being a member of God's elect or not in Romans 9:16, "...it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

Lets look now at Jesus...

...views the Arminian idea that God's electing us unto salvation depends on our free will. Jesus said to His disciples ~ and, by extension, to us ~ "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you" (John 15:16).

You have Thomas the Apostle, who said.. "I WILL NOT BELIEVE, unless I see the proof.. i have to see the nail prints, the wound in the side".

And what did Jesus say to Thomas right after that, Behold? He said to Thomas ~ and all His disciples, and to us by extension ~ "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (John 28:29)

So, Thomas is an UNBELIEVER...

Hm. Even though, upon seeing, he then said, "My Lord and my God!"? I think not. The faith given to him may have been somewhat lesser than the other disciples (as not all believers have the same measure of faith, but only what is apportioned to him/her by the Spirit per the will of the Father, as is the case with every gift of the Spirit), but he was very much a believer.

Now do you see that Reader?

LOL!!! Hoo boy.

So, apparently, Jesus forgot to say..."Well, you didnt believe because you saw me,.... you only believed because you were pre-destined".

"Forgot..." LOL! He did say to Peter, Behold, as I'm absolutely sure you remember, after Peter had confessed to Jesus that he believed Jesus was the Christ, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven"... the same is true for Thomas. <smile>

Dismissed. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

He followed the instructions of His Loving God - Jesus.

Sure He did, He followed the instructions.
And God (Jesus) who is talking to Him......You must believe in the Trinity...............does Love Him.
But Paul didnt respond to Jesus's LOVE...>>He responded out of fear, (TREMBLING)>.. and "astonishment"...your verse says....

Later, when Paul was in full comprehension of His faith ... He eventually became the greatest Apostle and greatest Christian who ever lived.

And Paul is not a Calvinist or a "5-point" TULIP, Hyper Calvinist.
Neither is JESUS.

See, God makes CHRISTians..

Calvin and TULIP Theology, make Calvinists, and Hyper-Calvinists.

 

[PinSeeker]

@Carl Emerson
@Ritajanice

As long as @Behold continues to think that faith is a work of man ~ which is directly opposed to the following...​

• Romans 9:16 ~ "in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of Him Who calls... it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy."
• Romans 11:5-6 ~ "at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
• Ephesians 2:8-9 ~ "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
• 1 Corinthians 12:4-10 ~ "there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit... it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good... to another faith by the same Spirit... All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills."
• Philippians 2:12-13 ~ "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."
• Colossians 2:12 ~ "you were also raised with (Christ) through faith in the powerful working of God"
• 1 Thessalonians 2:13 ~ "And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the Word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers..."
• 2 Timothy 1:8-9 ~ "Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the Gospel by the power of God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of His own purpose and grace..."
• Titus 3:4-5 ~ "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."
• Hebrews 12:1-2 ~ "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith..."

This is not an exhaustive list, by any means, but should be sufficient... unless one has a head of wood. <smile>​

...he will continue arguing. But no matter; it is what it is. Or rather, it's not what it's not. <smile>​

Grace and peace to all!

 

[Behold]

1. Acts 2:39
   For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as manyas the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 2:39....This is the promise of Salvation, to All who will believe.

See, once we believe, we are forgiven our sin, and are born again "IN Christ"... And that is when we become "Pre-destined"..

So, all of this is in God's Foreknowledge.........in that God knows who will and who wont, believe, and the Call of Christ, is for everyone.

But once the Call has been received, then the "unto Himself" is found.. and the "adoption" and the "Conforming".. .as all this is predestined to happen AFTER, you are born again = ""in Christ.""

And Jesus is always Calling, every unbeliever.......as that is what The Cross does.......as its always Calling.

Jesus said..>>>"if i be lifted up, (on the Cross) i will Draw (call) ALL people to me"..

"All"

But not all will believe, and so, they are offered what they wont receive.

If you receive it, then you are the Chosen, you are the predestined to be conformed.. and the Foreknowledge of God, KNEW always who is going to choose and who is going to reject.

Calvinism and Hyper-Calvinism predestine that Forekknowledge, and that is the core LIE, that is the central false doctrine of Calvinism and TULIP - "5-Points"

Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as manyas had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Everyone who is born again is predestined to have eternal life... "appointed".

Jesus says "All that Believe in me...........(see that part?) that is when God saves you.. through your faith..)>.. and then the verse completes.. as... = I give unto you eternal life".

You are BORN again to receive adoption, eternal life.......many wonderful things..

 

[Carl Emerson]

But Paul didnt respond to Jesus's LOVE...>>He responded out of fear

The Spirit of The Fear of The Lord is part of our Loving God Himself.

 

[Behold]

The Spirit of The Fear of The Lord is part of our Loving God Himself.

What you stated.... is "word salad". .... not found in a Bible.

Also, you are trying to prove that Paul had no choice but to believe, and you tried to use a verse that said his fear in the situation made Him "Tremble" and the entire Supernatural Experience was "Astonishing".

Here is a very simple way to understand what just happened in Paul's case...

That is like, Native American Indians, in the 1720s, seeing the Starship Enterprise.

Paul experienced an incredible supernatural experience.. that scared him and astonished him, @Carl Emerson

Paul's Jewish Analytical mind was blown.....is what happened to Him, and 3 days later, He was able to learn from Ananias, what was going on, and Paul Believed and was water baptized.

This (initial) Christ Hating Pharisee ended up writing all the Church Doctrine, and most of the NT Epistles.

Paul like Esther, was definitely chosen for "such a time as this", and in Paul case.. He became the apostle to the Gentiles, in "the time of the Gentiles".
And Just like Jesus who Chose to go to the Cross, and Esther who chose to do what was required... Paul chose Jesus.

FREE-WILL

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Psalm 33:18 ►

Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version But the eyes of the LORD are on those who fear him, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love, New Living Translation But the LORD watches over those who fear him, those who rely on his unfailing love. English Standard Version Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear him, on those who hope in his steadfast love, Berean Standard Bible Surely the eyes of the LORD are on those who fear Him, on those whose hope is in His loving devotion

 

[Carl Emerson]

Acts 2:39....This is the promise of Salvation, to All who will believe.

See, once we believe, we are forgiven our sin, and are born again "IN Christ"... And that is when we become "Pre-destined"..

So, all of this is in God's Foreknowledge.........in that God knows who will and who wont, believe, and the Call of Christ, is for everyone.

But once the Call has been received, then the "unto Himself" is found.. and the "adoption" and the "Conforming".. .as all this is predestined to happen AFTER, you are born again = ""in Christ.""

And Jesus is always Calling, every unbeliever.......as that is what The Cross does.......as its always Calling.

Jesus said..>>>"if i be lifted up, (on the Cross) i will Draw (call) ALL people to me"..

"All"

But not all will believe, and so, they are offered what they wont receive.

If you receive it, then you are the Chosen, you are the predestined to be conformed.. and the Foreknowledge of God, KNEW always who is going to choose and who is going to reject.

Calvinism and Hyper-Calvinism predestine that Forekknowledge, and that is the core LIE, that is the central false doctrine of Calvinism and TULIP - "5-Points"




Everyone who is born again is predestined to have eternal life... "appointed".

Jesus says "All that Believe in me...........(see that part?) that is when God saves you.. through your faith..)>.. and then the verse completes.. as... = I give unto you eternal life".

You are BORN again to receive adoption, eternal life.......many wonderful things..

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What you stated....That sounds like something confused that Kamala Harris would try to teach.

"word salad". not found in a Bible.

Isaiah 11
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.