Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

[St. SteVen]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[Ritajanice]

They don’t believe that Jesus was God, is that right?

 

[Ritajanice]

But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification

Gods grace and gift came into the world by one man, his name was Jesus, who was the Living God in the flesh,imo.

If Jesus has not entered this world for the atonement of our sins, there would no redemption.

He was the sacrificial Lamb Of God....imo.

At the beginning of the Savior's ministry, John the Baptist introduced Jesus as “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). The Apostle Peter taught the early Saints that they were redeemed through “the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish” (1 Peter 1:19).

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◄ 1 John 2:2 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. New Living Translation He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. English Standard Version He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. Berean Standard Bible He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Berean Literal Bible And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[St. SteVen]

They don’t believe that Jesus was God, is that right?

That's a different issue.

I'm talking about recognizing all three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
- Damnationism (forever burning hell)
- Annihilationism (complete destruction of the wicked)
- Christian Universalism (Ultimate Redemption of humankind)

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

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[Ritajanice]

Ok @St. SteVen .


What does ultimate redemption of human kind mean?

 

[St. SteVen]

Gods grace and gift came into the world by one man, his name was Jesus, who was the Living God in the flesh,imo.

If Jesus has not entered this world for the atonement of our sins, there would no redemption.

He was the sacrificial Lamb Of God....imo.

I agree, thanks.

However, many on this forum believe that the gift Jesus brought was not for everyone. (only for the Elect/predestined)
They believe that the atonement was an incomplete work, since (they claim) it did not pay the death penalty for everyone.
And they don't believe that Jesus is "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can not have a whole bible view. And then come to the conclusion of universalism.

The bible does not highlight justice and highlight repentance being required for nothing..

 

[St. SteVen]

What does ultimate redemption of human kind mean?

Good question.
It means that God's intention is to redeem all of humankind, not just a select few in the here and now.
There will be an age of restoration when all nations and leaders (both political and religious) and all individuals
will be evaluated/corrected/restored and redeemed. Healing will come to the nations.
We seem a glimpse of that in this scripture. Notice everywhere this takes place.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

I agree, thanks.

However, many on this forum believe that the gift Jesus brought was not for everyone. (only for the Elect/predestined)

God has revealed to my heart that I was chosen / predestined ...to be used for his Glory, to represent the power of the Spirit, that is my belief,..he chose us to be made into Jesus image, his character/ fruit we should bear.imo...

They believe that the atonement was an incomplete work, since (they claim) it did not pay the death penalty for everyone.

Only the elect, yes, I hear that all the time on this forum.

And they don't believe that Jesus is "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

Wow!..who do they believe takes the sins of the world away?

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

[

I can’t speak on behalf of anyone’s salvation.

I was chosen and predestined to become a child of God...that is my belief.

I will never deny that, I would sooner die...than take any credit for my salvation.

I had no choice in becoming Born Again..it’s a natural process to become Born Of God’s seed...yet many believe my testimony..that God forces himself onto me...which is utter nonsense.

The power is in the Spirit..it’s a mystery.,how we become Born Of The Spirit, imo.

 

[St. SteVen]

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Also important to understand the definition of "acknowledge" in this scripture.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

[

 

[Cyd]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

He paid for the sins of the world truth. You have to believe and accept that right? No belief no have.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I agree, thanks.
However, many on this forum believe that the gift Jesus brought was not for everyone. (only for the Elect/predestined)

God has revealed to my heart that I was chosen / predestined ...to be used for his Glory, to represent the power of the Spirit, that is my belief,..he chose us to be made into Jesus image, his character/ fruit we should bear.imo...

I agree.
Some have been chosen in this present age. Others will join us in the age to come. "But each in turn..." - 1 Cor. 15:23

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

I can’t speak on behalf of anyone’s salvation.

I was chosen and predestined to become a child of God...that is my belief.

I will never deny that, I would sooner die...than take any credit for my salvation.

Exactly.
It was NEVER about us and what we can do to earn it.

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[Eternally Grateful]

Rev 20: 10: The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20: 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This passage destroys universalistic thinking.

 

[Ritajanice]

St. SteVen said:
I agree, thanks.
However, many on this forum believe that the gift Jesus brought was not for everyone. (only for the Elect/predestined)

Yes, I read that on the forum.

For only the elect ..no comment ...I don’t understand how it’s only the elect who will inherit the Kingdom Of God.

Jesus said..only the Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.
.he never said, only the elect will see the Kingdom of God..it’s not scriptural imo.

Where is the support for this belief in scripture?

 

[St. SteVen]

He paid for the sins of the world truth. You have to believe and accept that right? No belief no have.

God will give everyone the opportunity to receive Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is already a done deal.

Everyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

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[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen Brother, you really do start some mind and heart provoking threads..Praise God!

My topics seem to go down the drain rather quickly..boo hoo..lol,x

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, I read that on the forum.

For only the elect ..no comment ...I don’t understand how it’s only the elect who will inherit the Kingdom Of God.

Where is the support for this belief in scripture?

This is the problem.
As I said in post #4...

There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
- Damnationism (forever burning hell)
- Annihilationism (complete destruction of the wicked)
- Christian Universalism (Ultimate Redemption of humankind)

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

In this topic, I am asking that Christian Universalism be given its due respect.

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God will give everyone the opportunity to receive Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is already a done deal.

Everyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

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Let all go and sin all we want. Let’s eat drink and be merry. Let’s not carry our cross. lets not sacrifice our needs and love others.

because non of this matters. We will all be saved anyway.

 

[Ritajanice]

In this topic, I am asking that Christian Universalism be given its due respect.

I agree, Amen!