Hidden Mysteries of the Bible

[Episkopos]

You know it occurred to me.....maybe it will help.........if you can see paradox as mentioned in your post here, why can't you see the paradox in how even though we have already been made righteous and holy through the cross, that we also need to seek righteousness and holiness?

That is your mind indoctrination fooling you. You don't know when to understand things spiritually and when to spiritualize the truth out of things. No one is made righteous and holy through the cross. You have yet to experience what truly justifies a person...resurrection life! If Jesus be not raised you are still dead in your sins. And He was RAISED for our justification.

I know that your outer man is still trying to learn how to avoid the cross and still claim to be justified (by beliefs). And I am usually careful to NOT try training the outer man to ape more accurate doctrines...thus making it easier for uncrucified ones to hide behind a better facade.

Having said that, it's up to everyone to be honest rather than to posture. Sooner or later, people will begin to say what I say...but usually without ANY reality. That is what I don't want. I would exhort people to seek God for themselves and have their own living testimony. Not some indoctrinated and borrowed statement based on chapter and verse...dead religion.

And even though we have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God we are to also seek it?

More indoctrination. Now that you are already glorified (in your own fantasy world) it's funny how that is NOT coming to pass with time.

And how like the Israelites, even though the land of promise and rest has already been given into our hands.....we also need to conquer and possess it? It's the same principle.

So then in your POV the Israelites who died in the wilderness already had the land? They just didn't realize it in their imaginations enough to not die?

 

[Episkopos]

Here is a shocker. Here is a simple truth that escapes the indoctrinated ones.

If you already have something you no longer need to seek for it. If you lack something you do need to seek for it.

Anyone who tries to twist the meaning out of this needs professional counseling/de-programming...and maybe an intervention.

Now, seek first the kingdom of God UNTIL you enter in! THEN, you are justified by being in Christ as you walk as Jesus walked in HIS resurrection life. :)

 

[Ritajanice]

A mystery.

What happen when we are influenced by the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit works in us by peeling away our sinful characteristics and replacing them with godly characteristics. His work in us makes us more and more like Jesus. Just as Acts 1:8 mentions, the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be effective witnesses for Jesus Christ

 

[Lizbeth]

That is your mind indoctrination fooling you. You don't know when to understand things spiritually and when to spiritualize the truth out of things. No one is made righteous and holy through the cross. You have yet to experience what truly justifies a person...resurrection life! If Jesus be not raised you are still dead in your sins. And He was RAISED for our justification.

I know that your outer man is still trying to learn how to avoid the cross and still claim to be justified (by beliefs). And I am usually careful to NOT try training the outer man to ape more accurate doctrines...thus making it easier for uncrucified ones to hide behind a better facade.

Having said that, it's up to everyone to be honest rather than to posture. Sooner or later, people will begin to say what I say...but usually without ANY reality. That is what I don't want. I would exhort people to seek God for themselves and have their own living testimony. Not some indoctrinated and borrowed statement based on chapter and verse...dead religion.


More indoctrination. Now that you are already glorified (in your own fantasy world) it's funny how that is NOT coming to pass with time.

So then in your POV the Israelites who died in the wilderness already had the land? They just didn't realize it in their imaginations enough to not die?

It's too bad, because what I tried to say in my post, is our point of disagreement. (In spite of all the false assumptions and accusations otherwise.) Well, I tried....glimmer of hope for a minute there. To whom much is given much is required.....but according to you much has not been given to us at all.

I understand it this way: Flesh cannot inherit...that's why the Israelites had to "die" in the wilderness before inheriting/entering the land. Only their "children", that is, that which was born of them was spirit, not flesh.....could inherit. (We are to give birth to spirit....ie, manifest the Spirit of Christ in us and in so doing we are walking in and possessing the land of promise.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Here is a shocker. Here is a simple truth that escapes the indoctrinated ones.

If you already have something you no longer need to seek for it. If you lack something you do need to seek for it.

Anyone who tries to twist the meaning out of this needs professional counseling/de-programming...and maybe an intervention.

Now, seek first the kingdom of God UNTIL you enter in! THEN, you are justified by being in Christ as you walk as Jesus walked in HIS resurrection life. :)

It's a paradox.

By such things we are tested, but it doesn't make it wrong. Grace and liberty are true doctrines, but it is up to us what we do with it....either use it as a license or cloak for sin, or use it to serve the Lord. Like the slave who was set free in the sabbath year but it was up to him to either run off and live as he pleased or covenant with his Master (ear pierced to the door - picture of the cross/dying to self) to remain and serve him.

 

[Episkopos]

It's too bad, because what I tried to say in my post, is our point of disagreement. (In spite of all the false assumptions and accusations otherwise.) Well, I tried....glimmer of hope for a minute there. To whom much is given much is required.....but according to you much has not been given to us at all.

I understand it this way: Flesh cannot inherit...that's why the Israelites had to "die" in the wilderness before inheriting/entering the land. Only their "children", that is, that which was born of them was spirit, not flesh.....could inherit. (We are to give birth to spirit....ie, manifest the Spirit of Christ in us and in so doing we are walking in and possessing the land of promise.)

Paul didn't run because he had already attained....he ran so that he would not be disqualified from the race. God calls many...but few are chosen. Why are so few chosen? Well, some of these probably think they already have everything and have need of nothing...like say, the Laodiceans.

You are entertaining logical fallacies because you have this name and claim it bent that sees you putting yourself in every nice sounding verse...while completely ignoring every verse that actually describes the futility of the kind of effort (or lack thereof) you are making. You are indeed spoken of in the bible...but not the way you think.

I just hope, with the thousands of wrong ways to understand the bible, that you particular infection will not spread to others.

 

[Episkopos]

It's a paradox.

By such things we are tested, but it doesn't make it wrong. Grace and liberty are true doctrines, but it is up to us what we do with it....either use it as a license or cloak for sin, or use it to serve the Lord. Like the slave who was set free in the sabbath year but it was up to him to either run off and live as he pleased or covenant with his Master (ear pierced to the door - picture of the cross/dying to self) to remain and serve him.

You are trying to bring things together in yourself, that can only be brought together in Christ. You are confusing the ego with Christ. GO to Christ. Seek FIRST the kingdom. Don't try imagining things in advance...in a superficial imagination. Eternal reality is NOT found in the human mind. Let go of your New Age thinking.

 

[Behold]

..he ran so that he would not be disqualified from the race.

Paul could never be disqualified from the race, as the eternal life that He has, that is the Eternal Security of the believer born again..., is the only reason they are in the race.

Paul understood that Christianity, is begun by Christ, and received by the believer, and empowered by God's Grace.

And in the verse below, you'll note that Paul is teaching that He has the righteousness that comes from God..

Whereas, YOU< teach, that God does not give any person His Righteousness.

I have your quotes....


""""and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith."""

 

[Lizbeth]

Paul didn't run because he had already attained....he ran so that he would not be disqualified from the race. God calls many...but few are chosen. Why are so few chosen? Well, some of these probably think they already have everything and have need of nothing...like say, the Laodiceans.

Christ in us, the hope of glory. Our new man has been created after the image of Christ. So yes, we are seeking what we already have been given. Not a logical fallacy, but a kind of paradox. Or if you want it more logically, we are seeking to unveil and manifest He who is in us....to walk in Him, His Spirit, our new man.......as scripture teaches.

Put in another way, ADDING to our faith.......and in that way an entrance will be supplied into the kingdom:

2Pe 1:5-10

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

See, you do not teach in this vein, the teachings of the apostles. Sorry but I believe them over you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh my yes. Haven't seen any contradictions with any of their teachings. Paul comes under attack a lot these days.

paul does , james does , CHRIST does .
what we have here is a failure to communicate , a failure to submit to GOD
and RATHER only submission to mens teachings .
WHICH i might add has brought in the false version of the judge not correct not
which led to a heap of leaving building up .
And always they use truths TO DENY TRUTH and to fit the mindset of what the flesh wants to hear and builds another
image of what they believe is GOD .
now on this path the false that were divided by denonination and false religons
WILL wear down and out and howl for the solution . THe solution is already at work .
THE LOVE SOLUTOIN , though it be a false solutoin . THE doctrine dont matter solution
This people , what is left of them , will soon wear down completely and suckle from the lets be one
lets just find us common ground , lets just get along . THE LIE will take them all sister .
It already has taken a lot . part two will FINISH off the job and it will merge the united denominations
WITH the other religoins too . THERE IS NOT a thing WE CAN DO TO STOP IT .
But we can warn against it , we can correct , and we can pray . WHO ever hears shall hear
and who ever wont , WONT . And on this path our outright betrayal will come as thier love
which has led them to rebellion against GOD and HIS CHRIST and thus they want naught to do
with sound doctrine will lead them to NOT ONLY the eradication and removal of TRUTH
but the eradication and removal OF ALL WHO WERE OF THE TRUTH . THEIR LOVE has led them to HATRED
against the truth of GOD and those who preach it and IT WILL lead them to the removal of even said PERSONS who bring the truth .

 

[amigo de christo]

Christ in us, the hope of glory. Our new man has been created after the image of Christ. So yes, we are seeking what we already have been given. Not a logical fallacy, but a kind of paradox. Or if you want it more logically, we are seeking to unveil and manifest He who is in us....to walk in Him, His Spirit, our new man.......as scripture teaches.

Put in another way, ADDING to our faith.......and in that way an entrance will be supplied into the kingdom:

2Pe 1:5-10

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

See, you do not teach in this vein, the teachings of the apostles. Sorry but I believe them over you.

You can bring that man much truth , as do i , and the only answers he has for us is , WE LOST
as he name calls and accuses but can show NO PROOF of doctrine to prove us wrong .
Heck i bring real simple reminders , EVEN the ONE TRUE GOSPEL of BELEIVE YE IN JESUS
and he calls all that religious indoctrination , self ego .
YET it aint me preaching self or the trust in self . ITS HIM . He is not alone either .
THEY learned this junk from men . i had another saying i was full of self and ego . THIS was learned OF MEN
but they THINK is SPIRITUAL REVELATION sister . rather odd their spiritual revelation
their so called prophecy , WONT TESTIFY OF JESUS THE CHRIST at all . OURS DOES .
our testimony puts no faith , no hope , no trust IN MAN OR IN US but IN CHRIST ALONE . HIS DONT
he does the opposite . thinking and believing that man can pick up his own cross without FAITH IN CHRIST .
HE dont realize . WITHOUT FAITH YE CANNOT PLEASE GOD .
his version of faith is in man , not CHRIST . that kind of faith IS NOT THE FAITH GOD LOOKES FOR .
HE LOOKS FOR FAITH IN HIM . AND IF ONES FAITH IS NOT IN CHRIST , WELL ITS NOT IN THE FATHER WHO SENT HIM .

 

[amigo de christo]

The apostles taught in this vein: from what we have already received.....that we are to seek as it were, what we have already received through Christ, that is, to seek to walk in what we have received. For example, "how can we who have died to sin walk in it any longer". We have died to sin, our old man has been crucified, yet we are on a journey of dying to these things. Paradox.

many now teach a version of seeking GOD
but that version hurls accusasatoins against those who remind all to BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST .
HOW can a man know GOD . HOW is the FATHER revealed to us , BY THE SAME JESUS WHO SAID YE MUST BELEIVE IN ME .
Only their jesus and god calls the believe in HIM religious dogma . THIS IS NOTHING more than man doing what he can
TO ATTAIN . not by submission to GOD but rather relying on their own idea of what they ALL think is the SPIRIT .
RATHER ODD cause the SPIRIT would not have said THE DIRE NEED TO FIRST BELEIVE ON CHRIST
IS RELIGIOUS DOGMA and self EGO . many follow another spirit sister
and they do believe themselves to be so SPIRTUAL , SO full of wisdom . when in truth
THEY ONLY FULL of the wisdom of man , NOT GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

maybe I understand things that you do not.

if what you understand creates a paul who preached contrary to CHRIST , then you misunderstand .
IF anything we believe and understand
pits letter against letter of the apostels and makes claims of two gospels
or makes claims that one is for the gentile one for the jew . THe misunderstanding is wrong .
WHAT JESUS said and later men recopied in the gosples
what paul wrote , what james wrote , what jude wrote , what john and peter wrote
CONTRADICTS NOT a word OF CHRIST at all . NOR do they contradict one another .
MEN are real good at decieving . But if we read the bible for ourselves
IT WILL COME TOGETHER in time .

 

[amigo de christo]

A mystery.

What happen when we are influenced by the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit works in us by peeling away our sinful characteristics and replacing them with godly characteristics. His work in us makes us more and more like Jesus. Just as Acts 1:8 mentions, the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be effective witnesses for Jesus Christ

YES . but what is the FIRST THING the HOLY SPIRIT reveals to us . THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST , THAT HE IS LORD
IF anyone didnt get that memo , THEY DONT KNOW HIM no matter what they try and do and say .
IF a man can come along and try and imply that even other religoins
have the SPIRIT and it can be seen by their so called love your neighbor as yourself . THEY LIE .
THE NUMBER ONE THING , THE FIRST THING that WONDERFUL and HOLY SPIRIT DO ,
IS DRAWS ONE TO BELEIVE ON JESUS . MANY sure seem to forget that part .

 

[amigo de christo]

maybe I understand things that you do not.

do you understand that we have many in churches , on sites and even some here
who preach another gospel . one that implies it dont matter if one believes JESUS is the CHRIST or not .
INTERFAITH is of the devil , its common ground is of satan and it came
to first merge the denominations to be as one under what its says is GOD and love .
And now part two is to merge the collective christendom with the other religoins .
My advice , DONT HEED a word or hope at all in this religious tolerance act , abraham peace accords
co exist interfaith lie . THEY have come TO MERGE
and soon they will convince the merged to come against the few true lambs WHO DID NOT conform .
That is the train ride many are on today . and as this love , this judge not correct not love tolerance
junk has led them into rebellion against TRUTH , against GOD , HIS CHRIST , HIS WORDS
SOON it will lead them to unite as one against , ANY and ALL WHO DID NOT CONFORM . the great tribulation hour
is upon us and our betrayer is nigh at hand . AND CAME FROM WITHIN CHRISTENDOM ITSELF
to decieve and to merge as much as it could , AGAINST GOD , HIS CHRIST and the saints .
And more and more only see the love god as THE GOD and THE GOD as the devil who hates and judges and dont love .
IF anyone in anyway sees a contradiction between the GOD of the old test and JESUS CHRIST of the new
THEY ARE IN DIRE TROUBLE . same GOD . most even now see the biblical CHRIST as non essential
as they clambor and hug on another version of said jesus that men created . WE got a huge problem going on right now .

 

[Episkopos]

Christ in us, the hope of glory.

I knew you were going to go there. This is a confusion of the text. Your ego is not Christ. You would have your ego to be the paradox...not Christ. But since it's possible to believe anything about oneself, have at it. The truth is that the part of you that you think Christ is in, needs to go to the cross. So that you can be filled with Christ in the inner man. Paul says...No longer I...but you justify the "I" by saying Christ is already in it. That's totally New Age thinking. And that will catch on since there is no cost to the ego...the ego wants to be saved and so you declare it so. But Jesus says you must lose your life to find it. So then you misunderstand Paul to confound the words of Jesus. Let all ego believers side with you.

 

[Episkopos]

Paul could never be disqualified from the race, as the eternal life that He has, that is the Eternal Security of the believer born again..., is the only reason they are in the race.

Paul understood that Christianity, is begun by Christ, and received by the believer, and empowered by God's Grace.

1 Cor. 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

And in the verse below, you'll note that Paul is teaching that He has the righteousness that comes from God..

Whereas, YOU< teach, that God does not give any person His Righteousness.

I have your quotes....


""""and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith."""

You have no understanding at all. All you do is to claim bible verses you have no idea about. God justifies people and covers people...but God's righteousness is always His own. same with His holiness.

But you will continue to show your ignorance of the things of God.

 

[Behold]

1 Cor. 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize?

The born again, have already received Eternal Life.
The Born again are already "seated in Heavenly Places"..

This is the greatest Prize, of all.. as its the "Free Gift of Salvation"...

So, your verses, are not related to going to heaven, or to earning salvation.

They are related to SERVICE..... as in "present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable SERVICE">...

And that Service, is on a "course", that is going to earn down here, what will be given at the Judgement seat of Christ.

Your verses are referring to a CROWN, that some will achieve, after they are born again, regarding their service that is found on their "course".

Your verse speaks of "mastery"., and this is referring to becoming "as many as be perfect", as "the fullness of the stature of Christ" as Paul teaches.

The very first step of this Mastery, is to "work out your salvation".........and that is to finalize this as.... "establish your HEART with GRACE".

So, Crowns are given in heaven, based on mastery of the walk of faith, service in the work of God, and also for never being a person who loses faith.

Being a "Castaway"... is someone, is a born again Christian.......... and this one, is one of those who never became "grace" centered in their walk of Faith, and so, they became a victim of man made false teachings, that took over their mind, and they became lost in these heresies. And Paul teaches this as "subverted within themselves".....they are non-recoverable.. They are too far gone into whatever heresies they became involved with, .. .they became so hardened within their false belief system, so deeply deceived... that they are going to die in that mindset that the NT refers to as a "stronghold".

This is the "castaway".. its the unrecoverable Christian, who is so lost inside false man made heresy, that they will never recover unto truth again, regarding Paul's Doctrine.

Paul says of these, that the are to be kept out of the local church and denied any chance to spread their heresies unto church members.
They are to be locked out.

 

[Lizbeth]

paul does , james does , CHRIST does .
what we have here is a failure to communicate , a failure to submit to GOD
and RATHER only submission to mens teachings .
WHICH i might add has brought in the false version of the judge not correct not
which led to a heap of leaving building up .
And always they use truths TO DENY TRUTH and to fit the mindset of what the flesh wants to hear and builds another
image of what they believe is GOD .
now on this path the false that were divided by denonination and false religons
WILL wear down and out and howl for the solution . THe solution is already at work .
THE LOVE SOLUTOIN , though it be a false solutoin . THE doctrine dont matter solution
This people , what is left of them , will soon wear down completely and suckle from the lets be one
lets just find us common ground , lets just get along . THE LIE will take them all sister .
It already has taken a lot . part two will FINISH off the job and it will merge the united denominations
WITH the other religoins too . THERE IS NOT a thing WE CAN DO TO STOP IT .
But we can warn against it , we can correct , and we can pray . WHO ever hears shall hear
and who ever wont , WONT . And on this path our outright betrayal will come as thier love
which has led them to rebellion against GOD and HIS CHRIST and thus they want naught to do
with sound doctrine will lead them to NOT ONLY the eradication and removal of TRUTH
but the eradication and removal OF ALL WHO WERE OF THE TRUTH . THEIR LOVE has led them to HATRED
against the truth of GOD and those who preach it and IT WILL lead them to the removal of even said PERSONS who bring the truth .

Amen. Hard to believe we are so near the end. A little leaven leavens the whole lump......mixture.

 

[Lizbeth]

I knew you were going to go there. This is a confusion of the text. Your ego is not Christ. You would have your ego to be the paradox...not Christ. But since it's possible to believe anything about oneself, have at it. The truth is that the part of you that you think Christ is in, needs to go to the cross. So that you can be filled with Christ in the inner man. Paul says...No longer I...but you justify the "I" by saying Christ is already in it. That's totally New Age thinking. And that will catch on since there is no cost to the ego...the ego wants to be saved and so you declare it so. But Jesus says you must lose your life to find it. So then you misunderstand Paul to confound the words of Jesus. Let all ego believers side with you.

No. I do not think Christ in us is our ego...He replaces it. Our ego is the old man. And "No longer I who live but Christ who lives in me".....is only manifesting when/if we are walking in the Spirit.

Jhn 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The balance remaining on our measure of the Spirit springs up, as it were, from our initial deposit. The Lord showed me this. But we need to understand it spiritually, not logically. The fountains of the deep springing up is really the same thing as the heavens pouring down. The heavenly spirit realm is not constrained by physical location…it is within us by His Spirit in our spirit. Righteousness looking down from heaven and peace looking up from earth and the two kiss each other, in a manner of speaking. Deep calling unto deep. We have to have first received it in order to well, receive more. Who has will be given more. That’s why only believers can hope to apprehend/attain, not those who don’t believe and haven’t received the initial deposit.