Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Behold]

1.) God our Father, is The God of Love whose HOLINESS = demands JUSTICE and JUDGEMENT.

2.) God demands a fair balance and never allows regarding His Behavior, an unfair or 'one sided" end result.

3.) God our Father says that an "unequal balance" is an "Abomination"...

4.) So, for God to pre-qualify some SINNERS before they are born, and not do this for all Sinners...., is an unfair balance and an IN-Justice committed against ALL those who are not given this same estimation by God.

5.) God will never do this.. He will never choose some, to be saved and avoid others, as there is no justification for doing this, when in fact.. .....
= .'All have sinned, and there is NONE Righteous, no not one".

A.) So, to choose SOME as worthy to be chosen from an entirety that are "ALL have sinned, and NONE are Righteous"... is not something that God can do and this be a just balance or a righteous decision.

 

[PinSeeker]

Interesting that you don't cite what you copied and pasted from...

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that God would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life...

This much is true...

while the others would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death."., (Just for being born).

...but this is not. What God actually does is, He gives them over to themselves and their own selfish desires and passions, which is exactly what they want and have chosen for themselves... even though, by choice, they exchange the truth for a lie and worship creation rather than the Creator. And in this life, He endures them with much patience, which is very loving and gracious... this is what we call common grace, 'common' in that it is given to all. This grace, though, is not in itself inclusive of His particular, salvific grace, which is given only to His elect.

So, according to Calvin's theology, some of your family were "pre-chosen" by God to burn in the Lake of Fire, before they were even born.

So no. If you want to say that some were not chosen and foreordained to eternal life, then I would agree with you. But the fact is that because of the Fall of Adam and Eve, we are all destined for the same... place. But, yes, God steps in on behalf of those whom He chooses, which, as Paul says, is his right as Creator.

See,..... the issue with this doctrine of devil's is MANY.... as this hellish doctrine is (T.U.L.I.P) LEGION... and what you have to SEE.. .Reader... is that all of us are EQUAL, regarding originally being a SINNER.

Yes, "Reader," and this is EXACTLY what John Calvin, and Calvinists ~ but Scripture ~ God Himself, says. As Paul says in Romans 5:12, "sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

This is why "Jesus came into the world TO SAVE SINNERS"< not the "elect only" as Demonic "TULIP" & Calvinism Teaches.

This is really a conflation of two things. As I have stated (several times now):

* Jesus's atonement is sufficient to save all, and in that sense, He died for all; in that sense, unlimited.​

​

* But God, in His grace, chose some, not all, from all eternity ~ these are His elect ~ to receive this saving grace. As He Himself said, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, compassion on whom I will have compassion." This is His right, of course, as Creator, or, as Paul says in Romans 9:22, the potter (and we the clay). But, in this sense, Jesus's atonement is only effectual according to God's purpose of election, so for these 'some,' His elect; in this sense, limited.​

Calvinism Abuses God, willfully..= by falsely accusing Him of causing people to NOT BELIEVE... As they are not "chosen" to believe.

Terribly wrong. But everyone is welcome to his/her opinion, misguided as it may be.

They are "pre-destined into ..(FORCED BY GOD))...= Unbelief".., .is what this DEVIL Teaches people to Believe.

Again, terribly wrong. But, again, everyone is welcome to his/her opinion, misguided as it may be.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Behold]

Every time you open a NT, God is speaking to us, on the pages.
He wrote it, .. they just wrote it down, for the most part....

WE can know we are "of the truth", first of all because Jesus IS THE Truth, ... John 14:6, and He is IN US.
This is one of the PROOFs that we are born again. = We are "OF the Truth" because we are "in Christ".
"Christ IN YOU< the Hope of Glory".

See... the word of God does not make you RIGHT.. It makes you Righteous and True.
The effect of the Spirit working in you, as you study the word, is that its Truth becomes yours.
So, when we have that.. we have the Truth in us., and we are not a Dark Light.

Luke 11:35

A partial verse says... "a workman that/who needeth not to be ASHAMED"...

And how is it that a Believer is a shame to the NT?

Its when their Theology is confused and has issues with God's Grace.

Can a believer be deceived?
A.) most are.

And that is because of one simple thing....
= Its a belief issue, that is related to not understanding GRACE. (Hebrews 13:9).

And once the born again believer, has come to the perfected understanding of God's Grace as Christ's Cross, then they are safe from 'Doctrines of Devils."
Calvin can't get then you then.
The Pope can't get you then,.
None of the cults can get your mind, once your mind is renewed = revelation knowledge regarding God's GRACe.

See, when you truly know what Jesus has accomplished on the Cross, that God has ETERNALLY IMPUTED to US, the born again.. when this is fully realized as the LIGHT of revelation, then CALVIN and the POPE and the MORMONS and the JW's and all these "cross confused" CULTS, and their MINISTERS..... can not infect your mind with their THEOLOGY.. on the FORUM, or from the PULPIT or in the Video or Commentary.

And they CAN until you have "worked out your salvation" and that is by "walking in the Spirit" and that is all done in your BELIEVING.
Is is right, or is it wrong?
If its wrong then the Cult's will get you.

See, wrong theology is a spiritual sickness and it'll may make you very sick, in your head, in your heart, and in your life.

The ANTIDOTE for that, is to not become one of those, and the way you do that, is to "get your heart established with God's Grace".

= THE REVELATION OF it..
Hebrews 13:9
Once you are there, then your mind is "one" with NT Truth., = Paul's Doctrine... and then the Devil can't get you caught up in his "doctrines of Devils" .. reader.

 

[PinSeeker]

Every time you open a NT, God is speaking to us, on the pages.
He wrote it, .. they just wrote it down, for the most part....

WE can know we are "of the truth", first of all because Jesus IS THE Truth, ... John 14:6, and He is IN US.
This is one of the PROOFs that we are born again. = We are "OF the Truth" because we are "in Christ".
"Christ IN YOU< the Hope of Glory".

See... the word of God does not make you RIGHT...

No, but you ~ I ~ can certainly proclaim its inherent rightness... <smile>

And how is it that a Believer is a shame to the NT?

Its when their Theology is confused and has issues with God's Grace.

Hmmm... well no one has "issues with God's grace," but some ~ you, in this case ~ certainly have issues understanding what God's grace truly is, and, in a real sense, just how amazing God's grace really is. This is exactly the problem with Arminianism. That's Jacobus Arminius's system of soteriology... and Pelagius's more than a thousand years before him, as he did the same thing, and that of all those who have since followed in their footsteps. This system makes God's grace out to be far less amazing (if amazing at all) and far less great than it truly is. And the same with God's love... it is made out in Arminianism to be far, far, to small.

Can a believer be deceived?
A.) most are.

In some way, we all are; nothing about us is perfect... yet. :)

And that is because of one simple thing....
= Its a belief issue...

Right, so like the man in Luke, we all pray, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief." It's really a sin issue.

Okay, that's quite enough. :)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Carl Emerson]

IN the NT, Salvation is a work of Grace........its a gift of mercy... like this.......>"not by our works, but according to God's Grace"....

So, that is the explanation of your verse, using the NT.

So do you dismiss the fact that the verse which Paul quoted clearly says that His choosing was made before birth.

Romans 9

there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

 

[Behold]

So do you dismiss the fact that the verse which Paul quoted clearly says that His choosing was made before birth.

No, im dismissing your interpretation that is based on the Hyper-Calvinism twisting of the verse.

So, as i was explaining to a hyper-calvinist, recently...

We are chosen "IN Him".... and Adopted the same way.

So, you have to be "IN" Christ, and then the predestined happens.., not before.

And God's Foreknowledge knows who will be those......which means that God knows who is going to Trust in Christ, or not.
And Hyper-Calvinism, teaches that God KNOWING, who is going to Trust in Christ, is the same as "Pre-destination" of the event.

See that?
That is the core issue, that is the theological rot, of this "doctrine of Devils".. its that Calvin and the "5-Pt" system, has redefined God's "foreknowledge" as "God causes it".. "God Predestines it".. and that is the LIE at the Heart of this false Doctrine.

So, maybe you can see this.........so, i'll give you a view..


The BIBLE, is God's Foreknowledge.......as its REVELATION, and that is .....>what is going to happen NEXT"....
So much of the BIBLE, especially the end time doctrine... is complete revelation, .. and this is the Foreknowledge of God.. that is revealed as what is coming next.......like the Rapture, and The Trib and Grt Trib, and Millennial Reign..
So, that is God's Foreknowledge, showing us the FUTURE< as the NT... .but that is not God causing it...
Its God REVEALING IT..

So, do you see that this REVELATION, is not "pre-destination"?

And.. its the same with Whom God ForeKNEW..........He has Predestined them.. once they are "IN CHRIST".. for certain things to happen now that they are IN CHRIST.

 

[PinSeeker]

... as i was explaining to a hyper-calvinist, recently...

You weren't, because a true hyper-Calvinist is not really adhering to true Calvinism at all, but a distortion of it. A little education on such things would do wonders... Well... maybe... <smile>

...the core issue (is) that Calvin ...has redefined God's "foreknowledge" as "God causes it"...

That's just idiotic, Behold. He did no such thing. Paul's explanation of God's foreknowing certain people ~ not all; this is Paul's context ~ is not a mere cognitive "knowing beforehand," as I said, but rather a foreloving of His elect only.

Aside: I hear the strains of Simon and Garfunkel... "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." (such a great song; The Boxer, 1968).​

To define 'foreknowing' as 'God causes it' does not make a lick of sense, but you foist that on Calvin and Calvinists just to make your narrative work. And that, Behold, makes you disingenuous at best.

The BIBLE, is God's Foreknowledge...

No, the Bible is God's Word... what is true, God's truth, that stands forever. As Peter (1Peter 1:24-25) says, quoting Isaiah (Isaiah 40:8), "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever."

......like the Rapture, and The Trib and Grt Trib, and Millennial Reign..

Ohhhhhh boy. <chuckles> Arminian and Darby-ist. Poor fella. <smile>

So, that is God's Foreknowledge, showing us the FUTURE< as the NT... .but that is not God causing it...
Its God REVEALING IT..

So, do you see that this REVELATION, is not "pre-destination"?

And.. its the same with Whom God ForeKNEW..........He has Predestined them.. once they are "IN CHRIST".. for certain things to happen now that they are IN CHRIST.

With all due respect, Behold, your "explanation" is very discombobulated ~ and with a view to supporting your preconceived ideas, obviously ~ and collapses on itself. No, they are in Christ... because they have been foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ from before the foundation of the world. This is part of Christianity 101... <chuckles>

<sigh> You know, yeah, like Stuart Smalley (Al Franken, Saturday Night Live) said many times, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!" <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

So do you dismiss the fact that the verse which Paul quoted clearly says that His choosing was made before birth.

He does. Or purposely ignores it. And Paul sets out what we call the "golden chain" of salvation:

We are foreknown, and then predestined... Actually these are so closely associated that they are the same event, really... And then called, and then justified (which are also simultaneous), and ultimately glorified. So at the very least, the predestination happens for the individual before he or she is actually in Christ or being conformed to His image... else it is not predestination but post-destination, which is... nonsensical. Goodness gracious.

Hard to believe that someone could be so stubborn, but...

Grace and peace to you, Carl.

 

[Windmill Charge]

So, you have to be "IN" Christ, and then the predestined happens.., not before.

This is grammatical nonsense.
Dictionary meaning:-
"predestined; predestining; predestines
Synonyms of predestine
transitive verb
: to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand. "
Link Definition of PREDESTINE

The word predestined literally means something that was sorted out before the event.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!

Nice one...

 

[Behold]

We are foreknown, and then predestined...

God does not Choose Christ for you.

Stop believing this hyper-Calvinsim lie, as it denies that you gave YOUR faith in Christ, to God., which is what God requires of you.

 

[PinSeeker]

God does not Choose Christ for you.

No, he doesn't; I agree. <chuckles>

Stop believing this hyper-Calvinsim ...

I don't ~ in the sense of what hyper-Calvinism truly is. But John Calvin was right... in refuting all five of Jacobus Arminius's five "objections."

...it denies that you gave YOUR faith in Christ, to God

Well, neither Calvinism nor hyper-Calvinism does that. But they both hold that our faith is a gift of God by His Spirit, which is in accordance with God's inerrant, infallible Word. Again, the writer of Hebrews defines faith as an assurance and a conviction, and that assurance and conviction comes from God, not from we ourselves, else it would not be a real assurance or conviction at all, but merely empty wishful thinking. Even just generally speaking, we can certainly be assured and convicted of something, but that assurance and conviction that we then have must come from outside ourselves.

...which is what God requires of you.

Hmmm... Well this brings to mind Micah 6:8, one of my favorite verses in the Bible: "(God) has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

I don't ~ in the sense of what hyper-Calvinism truly is. But John Calvin was right... in refuting all five of Jacobus Arminius's five "objections."

This type of study, where a person is digging deeply into man made theology, is a rabbit trail.

Go fishing instead.

Does Jesus care about what John Calvin wrote, or what Joseph A, believes?

That's a nope., but a lot of people are mentally captivated by these 2.

Go fishing instead.

Well, neither Calvinism nor hyper-Calvinism does that. But they both hold that our faith is a gift of God by His Spirit,

Your post is a contradiction of your previous agreement that God does not cause you to "Choose Christ"

So, when you post that to Choose Christ by FAITH, is a GIFT".....then you are teaching that God is gifting you to Choose Christ.

"CAUSING IT". as without the gift............right?

Yet All are given the gift of faith, but only the BORN AGAIN, may be gifted with the supernatural '"spiritual gift of faith.""
One of the members here, likes to endlessly post that this Spiritual Gift given to the Body of Christ, is the way that God causes unbelievers to trust in Christ.

(face palm).

ANd that is one the lies of Hyper Calvinism, that they have decided is why they believed.

I find that Calvinists, are so confused... and deny what they believe, and then post it over and over.

Well this brings to mind Micah 6:8, one of my favorite verses in the Bible: "(God) has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Good verse.
Words of Wisdom.

An aspect of your verse is that if a person does all that, today, and is never born again, then they go to Hell after they die like any other non-believer .

I have a Thread that discusses this, regarding 2 Twin Sisters..
Maybe i can find it, and post it, again, at some point.

And... the bible student, the student of NT Doctrine, knows that The OT is not Doctrine for the NT "church".

 

[Carl Emerson]

God does not cause us to choose Christ - But His love, by His Spirit draws us to Him and is irresistible.

The matter at hand then is about Love - not choice. This results in relationship - we are called home where we always belonged.

 

[PinSeeker]

This type of study, where a person is digging deeply into man made theology, is a rabbit trail.

I agree; I'd stop if I were you.

Your post is a contradiction of your previous agreement that God does not cause you to "Choose Christ"

Not at all. I do get, though, that to you, it is... But that's just you.

So, when you post that to Choose Christ by FAITH, is a GIFT".....then you are teaching that God is gifting you to Choose Christ.

In... your opinion. I get it, but no.

Now, "gifting you to choose Christ..."... that's off, but not far off, actually. What the one given saving faith (assurance and conviction; Hebrews 11:1), is rather enabled to choose Christ, or, more correctly and Biblically, enabled to see, hear, leap, shout for joy (in the words of Isaiah 35). We are given the "eyes of faith," and thus seeing will do no other than choose Christ.

Yet All are given the gift of faith, but only the BORN AGAIN, may be gifted with the supernatural '"spiritual gift of faith.""

Nope. Otherwise all would be saved. Only the born again, God's elect, are given this faith.

Now, if you want to say that anyone can have faith in something, that everyone can put their faith in something, then I agree with that, but that is not salvific faith. I would even say, Behold, that everyone does have some kind of faith in something, but it is not necessarily the right thing; if it's not the faith (assurance, conviction) given them by God, then it is a dead faith. <smile> But whatever it is, or whatever it is in, that dead faith is not given them by God. <smile>

I find that Calvinists, are so confused...

LOL! Says the Arminian... <smile> There's a bit of irony for you. Just a bit... <smile>

Good verse. Words of Wisdom.

Indeed. Maybe we can stop on that... <smile>

Grace and peace to youl

 

[Behold]

God does not cause us to choose Christ - But His love, by His Spirit draws us to Him and is irresistible.

You're not actually involved in a continual situation where you deal with lost sinners, in a Church, regularly. @Carl Emerson
How do i know this?
Its because when a person deals from a Pulpit, from the front of a Church, for a year, for 40 yrs......here is what you discover.

You discover that when you end the service, and you say... "now, as we stand...with every head bowed, and every eye closed, "" and you lead them into the opportunity, by the Gospel... to receive Christ as their Savior............what you learn, is that people start breathing hard, every time... Hands begin to sweat as they grip the pew in front of them, and they are squeezing it so hard.... as their hearts are beating so fast... and they KNOW that its for them that they are hearing the Gospel, as they are "under the conviction of the Holy Spirit"..
And they resist,..... sweating, heart pounding.........and 20 mins later, they are dismissed and they go to their cars, their homes, their beds later that night, and they KNEW to trust in Christ, again, durubg another Sunday in Church..= because the HOLY Spirit, caused them to understand their need, again, and again..

And here is an update for you, little one...
If you do that, too long, there becomes a LINE that you have crossed, when the Holy Spirit calls, but you can't hear Him in your heart, ever again.

Calvinism is a lie from hell.
His theology is a doctrine of devils, and it has deceived MILLIONS, and will do so tomorrow.
Jesus The Lord, is not a Calvinist.

 

[PinSeeker]

Calvinism is a lie from hell.

That might hold some water, coming from you, if ~ and this is a big if ~ you even understood what Calvinism is. All you've done is twist it into something That I assure you... see what I did there? <smile> ...it's most definitely not.

Jesus The Lord, is not a Calvinist.

Agreed, but John Calvin ~ not Jacobus Arminius ~ was right about Jesus and His atonement... and who (and Who) does what in salvation. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Calvinism is a lie from hell.
His theology is a doctrine of devils, and it has deceived MILLIONS, and will do so tomorrow.
Jesus The Lord, is not a Calvinist.

unproven conjecture and personal opinion lacking any substantial (read biblical) support in any sense.

Case dismissed for lack of evidence on you rpart.

 

[Ritajanice]

If I may say with respect that, none of us know it all, only God knows all.

I have a question, God may answer it or he may not.by all means give your opinion, but, only the Holy Spirit can answer my question, direct to my my spirit...if he chooses to do say...

How can God convict us of our sin, if ,as a non believer, were still in it, what does God say to those who are carnal in nature?

1 Corinthians 2:14-3:9​

​

King James Version​

​

​

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I only knew that I had been living in sin after I became Born Again, that is when the Spirit Of Truth, witnessed that to my heart/ spirit.my spirit knew that I had been separated from the Spirit of God.after I became Alive in Christ.

So I am trying to understand how the Holy Spirit can make himself known to a sinner, who is sweating in church, knowing that God is convicting him of his sin..

How would they know it was the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin.?..if they aren’t Born Again?I guess I can only understand the way I became Born Again...when God wants us to become Born Again the process imo happens exactly as God wills it..it all happens very naturally and there is certainly no resistance on our part..he draws us in Love and Gods Love is 100% irresistible...

GOD set me free from my sin as soon as I was birthed in the Spirit, only then did I know God, because after one is Born Again, we then start our spirit journey with the Lord..we have fellowship with God, via his Spirit...Spirit to spirit fellowship ..just my thoughts.

My point is this..how can you know God without being Born Of The Spirit?

Also hearing the Gospel, is not the same as being Born Of God’s seed.imo.that is a supernatural rebirth, where the seed of God has given birth to our spirit, he’s made himself known in our spirit.he resides in our spirit, that is where he’s manifest.permanently...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

God does not cause us to choose Christ - But His love, by His Spirit draws us to Him and is irresistible.

The matter at hand then is about Love - not choice. This results in relationship - we are called home where we always belonged.

yes, being born again is the foundation, and the Lord God teaches us about Christ and we receive Him.
But because of Him we are in Christ Jesus, He being the author of our faith, indeed God does cause us to believe in Christ, but this is not forced against the will, God changing our heart, and opening our hearts to heed God, enables us to hear the things He teaches to us. Since Jesus tells us not to marvel about being born again and that being born again is like the wind that blows where it willith, then this experience is of God to save those He will.

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life.