Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Behold]

It is about being born again and receiving the gift of the indwelling Spirit Himself.

And you know, unless you are a Calvinist,...a Hyper-Calvinist (TULIP 5-Point)... that you have to give God your faith in Christ...First, as that is WHY God will #1 = forgive your sin, and WHY after forgiving your sin, He NEXT, #2... = gives you the new Birth (Born again) and you then become the Child of God, the "New Creation in Christ".

See the ORDER of Salvation? ?

1.) Faith given to God, ......

then 2.) God forgives your sin....

and THEN, 3.) God gives you the "new Creation in Christ"..."Born again".. "new Birth".

Well, John the Devil Calvin changed that order, according to his doctrines of devils, and he has deceived millions into this theological deception.

Calvinism and later disciples that created the 5 points... teach receiving Salvation... like this..

You are FIRST = born again...........and then you can give God your Faith in Christ, 2nd... next..

See that?
They have the new Birth... when there is no faith in Christ yet., and that is a Satanic Theology..,and quite a few of Calvin's disciples are teaching this today.......3 at least.

So..........What that is teaching is that you are "born again in your SIN"... still unforgiven, and THEN you will have Faith in Christ afterwards.

1.) Doctrine of Devils.

 

[Ritajanice]

We Love God ,from deep within our heart ,why do we do that ,because that is where he Loved us first, in our hearts/spirit..I wonder if Calvin believed this,

 

[PinSeeker]

Listen to this...., as i show you how you are teaching how to be born again.

Oh great... <smile>

You are teaching that you are forgiven, after you are born again, and this happened BEFORE you ever gave God your Faith in Christ.

I quite honestly don't even understand this very discombobulated sentence. So no, I'm obviously not teaching that. I'm not really teaching anything actually, but rather proclaiming it...

What I'm saying, Behold, is that in being born again of the Spirit, God gives you the faith to believe... this faith is worked in you by the Holy Spirit in the new birth that He works in you.

Goodness gracious. It seems you will go to great lengths to turn my words into something they are surely not, so that you can then make your "points."

Grace and peace to you, Behold. Especially grace, that you might have some...

 

[PinSeeker]

And you know, unless you are a Calvinist,...a Hyper-Calvinist...

Ah, now this is worth speaking to. There is Calvinism and there is something called hyper-Calvinism, which is quite different than true, historical Calvinism ~ what John Calvin actually preached and taught ~ and makes them not really Calvinists but something quite else.

To your "point," though, there are some who would call themselves "three-" or "four-point Calvinists"... And thus not really Calvinists, because they disagree with him on one or two of his "points."

Calvinism and later disciples that created the 5 points...

The five points of Calvinism are really five answers; they only came about because they were his five responses (based on his much larger body of work) to Jacobus Arminius's flawed five very un-Biblical "objections." You might want to educate yourself on these things.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

"For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Romans 8:29).​

So, you are proving, as a Hyper Calvinist will, that when you read that God predestined the foreknown to be conformed into the image of H Son...... you didnt realize that this not not speaking about being saved initially.

The "conformed into the image" was the clue that this verse is not talking about becoming a Christian, initially.

The "conforming into the image of Christ" is this..

"We shall all be changed, in the Twinkling of an eye" and "corruption shall put on incorruption".

See that? That is the FINAL Conforming, into the "image of Christ".........that is predestined to happen to all the BORN AGAIN.

What is that?

That's when you meet the Lord in the Air and Get your New Body.

Ah, so you're saying that God's choosing depends on our choosing,

I never once have implied that God choosing us depends on our choosing.

Hyper Calvinism teaches the "choosing some, but not all"... not me.

And this doctrine teaches that God chooses individuals, not Families.. .So, every Calvinist that i ask...>>>>"So, whom in your family, didnt God choose........ your mother, your kids, your wife, your Grandmother"...
And then they come and lie and say..>>>"God chose all my family".. as they can't deal with the truth, or they never answer..

I wonder How you will respond, @PinSeeker ..

So....Here is how it works.

WE hear the Gospel......and the Holy Spirit reveals it to our heart........and then the person decides to place their faith in this revelation, or not.
That is to believe in Jesus or not.

"Free Will".

Its really that simple.

Who does God choose to be saved?

Everyone.......as The CROSS is for us ALL......but, not everyone will give God their Faith in Christ, and unless you give God your faith in Christ, you are here...

John 3:36

This is in direct opposition to what Paul says in Ephesians 1:5-6... "He chose us in Him

Notice that the choosing is based on being "in Him".

You are not chosen to be in Him, you are chosen because you are IN HIM....... you are already there... "IN".. "him"...not, getting there... but already there.. and once there, you are adopted, as that is how you are "chosen"... and that adoption is pre-destined, based on becoming "in Christ", first.

Right, I never said that (nor did Calvin), but the new birth only occurs because of this predestination.

Yet 3 other Calvinists have told me today, that they are born again before they had faith.

So, that is 3 vs you, and all of you, are devoted to Calvinism.

That's interesting.

This predestination, Behold is to be conformed to the image of His Son (Jesus).

So, you are proving, as a Hyper Calvinist will, that when you read, that God predestined the foreknown to be conformed into the image of his son...... you didnt realize that this not not speaking about being saved initially.

The "conformed into the image" was the clue that this verse is not talking about becoming a Christian, initially.

The "conforming into the image of Christ" is this..

"We shall all be changed, in the Twinkling of an eye" and "corruption shall put on incorruption".

See that? That is the FINAL Conforming, into the "image of Christ".........that is predestined to happen to all the BORN AGAIN.

What is that?

That's when you meet the Lord in the Air and Get your New Body.

It's all one thing, really, one big event; we are justified by God ~ declared righteous by God, Christ's righteousness imputed to us

Actually its 2 parts, that occur after you give God your faith in Christ.

God forgives you, as He can't birth a sinner, unforgiven, into Himself.

So, after you are forgiven all your sin, He then gives you the new birth, that is the HS, birthing you, into God... "who is A Spirit".

TULIP<> 5-points...... has you born again in sin, to then have faith in Christ.

Never.

If it were actually the will of God for everyone to believe in Jesus, Behold, then everyone would believe in Jesus (eventually, I guess) and thus be saved. But we know that some will not.

It is the will of God, its "God's Desire".. (will)... that everyone be saved.

1st Timothy 2

It was God's will for Christ to go to the Cross, and Jesus didnt have to do it, and asked for the '"cup to pass".
The Cup is God's judgement against the sin of the world and that is found on THE CROSS as our "Sin Bearer".

So, Had Jesus no way out of that CUP, because it was "God's Will"... then He would not have asked to be released from it.
He DECIDED, to do "Not MY WILL , but Your's Father", and that was God's Will, and Jesus didnt have to do it.

No, Paul is speaking specifically to Christians in 1 Corinthians 12,

Romans 12:3

"God gives to every man (person) the measure of Faith".

God gives the Gift of Faith, the Spiritual Gift, only to the BORN AGAIN.

Right, but the 'whosoever' is limited to only the ones whom the Lord calls, J

Calvin also changed the "whosoever" INTO "pre-destined" so..... you are right on course.

 

[Behold]

I quite honestly don't even understand this very discombobulated sentence.

Hyper Calvinism, teaches...... as 3 confirmed today talking to me..., that you are born again in sin, so that after you are, you can now have FAITH.

So, that theology is teaching that God gives a sinner, not forgiven yet, the new birth.... so that they can THEN Have Faith in Christ.

That is teaching that God joins Himself to the SINNER, unforgiven... and then they get Faith ....

What an incredible Satanic Lie.

Whereas, the Truth teaches, that you need to be forgiven, so that you can be born again... so, you have to give God what He requires of you, first..........which is YOUR Faith in Christ.. and after you give that to God.. He then forgives your sin, and gives you the new birth.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary..Jesus is our identity, and He lives His life through us, so our chief purpose in this life is to be like Him. In our daily walk with Jesus we learn from Him and His spirit is helping us do His will over our own will. Thus we are becoming more like Jesus. This is what it means to be conformed to His image.

 

[Behold]

Grace and peace to you, Behold. Especially grace, that you might have some...

Thank you, im sure i could always use more.
And may God give you a heart, that isnt self righteous.... per post.

 

[Behold]

Short commentary..Jesus is our identity, and He lives His life through us, so our chief purpose in this life is to be like Him. In our daily walk with Jesus we learn from Him and His spirit is helping us do His will over our own will. Thus we are becoming more like Jesus. This is what it means to be conformed to His image.

That is not what it means..

So, your cut and paste, isnt correct, again.

See, down here, what we are to become is "the fullness of the Stature of Christ"...

And when we are in the final conforming, that happens subsequent to death, or in the Rapture, we get that new body, and we are "changed".... as this can't happen down here, in this body.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Again.
The predestination is not the new birth, but its the adoption that is subsequent to the new birth.

His choice is made before we are even conceived - think Jacob and Esau...

Romans 9

there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

 

[Behold]

His choice is made before we are even conceived

Well, that is Hyper-Calvinism you are sharing.....so, another one needs to stand up and be counted.
np.
See, my Threads highlight heresy.. .and what happens is.. those who are not one of those... read them, and think "OMG" i dont want to be like they are..... and that is why we are talking.........all you Hyper- Calvinists.

-Perfect.

That is how true sheep are protected from heresy on Forums.

Now Listen,
God's foreknowledge happens before we are born.. and the pre-destination is subsequent to the new Birth. The predestination happens after we are born again.

See, Calvin, could not understand that "foreknowledge" is not "pre-destination"..

And His Disciples also can't understand it, as that is what Calvin does to your mind.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary .

Thus we are becoming more like Jesus. This is what it means to be conformed to His image. We must remember that by ourselves we cannot be like Jesus. It is by His power in us, and our walking with Him that we are changed. Read Romans 8:28-29.

28*We know that all things work for good for those who love God,*who are called according to his purpose. 29*For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

 

[Behold]

Short commentary .

Thus we are becoming more like Jesus. This is what it means to be conformed to His image.

That is what you read that someone said, that it means., and then you posted what they taught you to believe.

We understand.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well, that is Hyper-Calvinism you are sharing.....so, another one needs to stand up and be counted.

Nonsense... I was sharing Scripture - Romans 9

Please respond to the Scripture.

Romans 9

there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

By the way - contrary to you insinuations, I have never studied or read Calvin.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.


A Born Again/child of God, will without question be conformed to the image of his Som, ....the fruit of the Spirit we too will bear.

When we fully surrender to God....Jesus fruit, not our fruit, will grow and ripen within us,..these are gifts of the Spirit.,.,,

Ripening on the Vine​

• Stan Gale

We can only ripen on the Vine. We cannot grow and bear fruit apart from all it means to abide in Jesus Christ.
“As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.” (John 15:4, NKJV)

To bear fruit means we do all that Jesus says, and to start, that means loving one another as Jesus loved us(John 15:12). “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law” (Galatians 5:22-23).



The Spirit will keep us abiding in the true vine, as we continue with sincerity of heart before the Lord.

Who brings us to understanding “ sincerity of heart” the Lord of course.

Never take the Glory away from God,..all Glory belongs to him alone....self is buried ,it is no more...

 

[Behold]

so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,

IN the NT, Salvation is a work of Grace........its a gift of mercy... like this.......>"not by our works, but according to God's Grace"....

So, that is the explanation of your verse, using the NT.

I have never studied or read Calvin.

Please don't, as this doctrine of devils will ruin your faith and control you so that you begin to feel an obsessive compulsion to share CALVINISM, and preach the "5 points".
That is what this Satanic Doctrine does to you, once it owns your mind.
First it ruins your faith, and permanently causes you to be unable to read the NT unless you are seeing it through the Theology of John the devil Calvin.............. and then it will have you ministering HIS Theology and the 5-Points, and you'll falsely believe you are being led of God to do it.

 

[PinSeeker]

So, you are proving, as a Hyper Calvinist will, that when you read that God predestined the foreknown to be conformed into the image of H Son...... you didnt realize that this not not speaking about being saved initially.

So, before I address this, I'll just say that hyper-Calvinism is a distortion and a misunderstanding of what historic Calvinism ~ what John Calvin actually believed, preached and wrote about. A few points:

• Both historic Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists would call themselves "five-point Calvinists" ~ which renders the argument that "hyper-Calvinists" are the "five-pointers" and all other Calvinists are "four (or less) pointers."
• The main difference between the two is that hyper-Calvinists believe that God saves the elect through His sovereign will... that much is absolutely true... but with little or no use of the methods, the means, of bringing about salvation (i.e., evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost).
• To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God’s sovereignty and under-emphasizes man’s responsibility and even his/her free will in the work of salvation.
• Hyper-Calvinists would argue with John Calvin himself (and historical Calvinists) and say that Christ's sacrifice and atonement is sufficient only to the elect, whereas Calvin held that the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice and atonement for sin stretches to all humanity.
• In short ~ and most germane to the objections being raised in this thread ~ hyper-Calvinists do in fact say, essentially, that God forces His will upon those of His choosing. Therefore, hyper-Calvinism soon degenerates into a cold, lifeless dogma, and churches and denominations that subscribe to it tend to become either barren and inert, or militant and elitist (or all of the above).

So, the objections here to Calvinism are properly applied to hyper-Calvinism, and historic Calvinists would absolutely join together with other Christians in those objections.

The "conformed into the image" was the clue that this verse is not talking about becoming a Christian, initially.

Regarding Romans 8:29, yes, I agree; what you say here was not my implication. The conforming to Christ's image is the Holy Spirit's work of sanctification in us over the course of our lives after our becoming a Christian. And it is brought to completion ~ by God, of course ~ at the day of Christ.

...the FINAL Conforming, into the "image of Christ".........that is predestined to happen to all the BORN AGAIN.

Absolutely true. Agreed. I never insinuated otherwise.

...you meet the Lord in the Air and Get your New Body.

<chuckles> We will be reunited with our old body, which will be resurrected to eternal life ~ raised incorruptible ~ and thus "made new"... this is what God says in Revelation 21:5. He does not say "Behold, I am making all new things" <smile> but rather "Behold, I am making all things new."

I never once have implied that God choosing us depends on our choosing.

Ah... you did, maybe not in so many words, but that has been your unavoidable implication. If you agree that God choosing us does not depend on our choosing Him, that God's will regarding our salvation does not depend on our accepting it, then you do well... and we would agree on that. But you did say ~ in effect, at least ~ that God predestinates His elect only because we choose to follow Jesus, which is...

(a) ...at least a contorting of our being saved by God's grace into somehow being saved by our own merit, which makes God's grace into something other than grace entirely, which is what Paul says in Romans 11:5-6, that "there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace..." ​

...and...

(b) ...even tantamount to saying that we owe the praise for our salvation really only to ourselves, and even that we should give glory to ourselves rather than to God...​

...both of which are... really bad... <smile>

WE hear the Gospel......and the Holy Spirit reveals it to our heart........and then the person decides to place their faith in this revelation, or not.

Behold, I, Calvinist (all five points) that I am... <smile> ...wholeheartedly agree with you on this. The only thing I would add to the end of your sentence here is... "but the person will then not fail to decide to place his/her faith in Christ, because true faith ~ "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1) ~ has been worked in him/her by the Holy Spirit; this faith has been gifted to him/her by the Holy Spirit. And... as Paul goes on to say in Romans 11:29, "...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Who does God choose to be saved? Everyone...

No, because if He did, then everyone would be saved, because God's purposes cannot be thwarted, as Job affirms in Job 42:2... "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted." Isaiah affirms this also, quoting God Himself in Isaiah 55:11 as saying, "so shall My Word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it," and by Jesus Himself Who, in answer to His disciples question of "Who then can be saved?" says, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26), "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God” (Mark 10:27), and "What is impossible with man is possible with God” (Luke 18:27).

....as The CROSS is for us ALL..

This is true in the sense that it is sufficient for all, but not in the sense that it is effectual for all. Again, as Paul says, "there is a remnant, chosen by grace," a remnant being something less than the whole.

...the choosing is based on being "in Him"...

The choosing is the direct result of having been placed in Him... having been imputed the righteousness of Christ, having been declared righteous by God despite our own unrighteousness (which is the natural state of all mankind).

So, you are proving, as a Hyper Calvinist will, that when you read, that God predestined the foreknown to be conformed into the image of his son...... you didnt realize that this not not speaking about being saved initially.

No Calvinist, hyper or otherwise, says that God's predestining the foreknown is about "being saved initially," It could not, because this predestining happens "before the foundation of the world," which Paul says in no uncertain terms in Ephesians 1.

It is the will of God, its "God's Desire".. (will)... that everyone be saved.

His desire and His will are two different things. His justice, of His own volition... His free will, actually <smile> ...sometimes trumps His desired. In the same way, even just humanly speaking, we may desire certain things but decide against those things because of a good... even just... and right reason to do so.

To be continued... <smile>

 

[PinSeeker]

Continued from above:

1st Timothy 2

It was God's will for Christ to go to the Cross...

Absolutely.

...and Jesus didnt have to do it...

It was going to happen, and Jesus, being God Himself, knew it full well.

Had Jesus no way out of that CUP, because it was "God's Will"... then He would not have asked to be released from it.

Jesus, Behold, was acknowledging that in His humanity, His will was that this cup pass from Him, but knew that the Father's will was for Him to be crucified, and that because it was the Father's will, it would happen. Thus He prayed (and I quote), "Nevertheless, not my will be done, but yours."

Goodness gracious.

God gives the Gift of Faith, the Spiritual Gift, only to the BORN AGAIN.

Absolutely agreed; I never insinuated otherwise. I would only clarify this statement slightly and say that we are given the gift of faith, the Spiritual gift, in being born again of the Spirit.

Calvin also changed the "whosoever" INTO "pre-destined" so..... you are right on course.

He did no such thing, and neither do I. Really, this assertion of yours makes no sense whatsoever.

Whatsoever... see what I did there? <smile>

IN the NT, Salvation is a work of Grace........its a gift of mercy... like this.......>"not by our works, but according to God's Grace"....

Again, here, I absolutely agree. The one clarification I would make is that it is the same in the Old Testament... <smile> ...as affirmed by the writer of Hebrews in the entirety of chapter 11 of that book:

"...by (faith) the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel... By faith Enoch... By faith Noah... By faith Abraham..."​

And so on, and so on.

Grace and peace to you, Behold.

 

[PinSeeker]

And I'll separate this from the rest...

...may God give you a heart, that isn't self righteous.... per post.

You know, that is a problem... that Calvinists can come across as self-righteous. And that is sin rearing its ugly head, and I, as a Calvinist, have to ~ and do, in all humility ~ repent of that... in dust and ashes.

But, Behold, you kind of have to acknowledge that that could be merely a perception on your part. At least in part. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

And I'll separate this from the rest...


You know, that is a problem... that Calvinists can come across as self-righteous. And that is sin rearing its ugly head, and I, as a Calvinist, have to ~ and do, in all humility ~ repent of that... in dust and ashes.

But, Behold, you kind of have to acknowledge that that could be merely a perception on your part. At least in part. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that God would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death."., (Just for being born).

So, according to Calvin's theology, some of your family were "pre-chosen" by God to burn in the Lake of Fire, before they were even born.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See that Reader? ??

That is the Demonic John Calvin teaching that before some are born, God has "decreed" that they are born only to burn in the Lake of FIRE. = pre-destined.

"Pre-destined by GOD, to go to Hell, then the Lake of Fire"...

See,..... the issue with this doctrine of devil's is MANY.... as this hellish doctrine is (T.U.L.I.P) LEGION... and what you have to SEE.. .Reader... is that all of us are EQUAL, regarding originally being a SINNER.

Why? "Because ALL HAVE SINNED".

This is why "Jesus came into the world TO SAVE SINNERS"< not the "elect only" as Demonic "TULIP" & Calvinism Teaches.

Calvinism Abuses God, willfully..= by falsely accusing Him of causing people to NOT BELIEVE... As they are not "chosen" to believe.
They are "pre-destined into ..(FORCED BY GOD))...= Unbelief".., .is what this DEVIL Teaches people to Believe.