More about : Calvinism

[Taken]

Predestination According to Demonic John Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that God would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death."., (Just for being born).

False…not for Just being born.
False…implication.

So, according to Calvin's theology, some of your family were "pre-chosen" by God to burn in the Lake of Fire, before they were even born.

When you OMIT pertinent information…you arrive at a FALSE conclusion.

God IS ALL KNOWING…
God IS a PREPARER, rather that WAIT AND SEE…then scramble to prepare…

Point…God…All knowing….Knows who will stand WITH Him and who will stand AGAINST Him…

Do you Know who DOES NOT KNOW “THAT” information? Every naturally born individual man! Every individual man, hears, learns, freely accepts or rejects according TO HIS OWN WILL…He is informed of the consequences FOR whatever He freely chooses.

And God…In his Wisdom, Prepared a Place for every individual …. According to the individuals own freewill Choice.

God’s Pre-destination…DOES NOT MEAN GOD CHOSE for men. It simply means Gods already KNOWS who will freely choose what…

Guess what…men who write books, make movies….already KNOW the ending before the reader or observer…so what?

You appear to be in duress….because God is ALL Knowing….and ALL Prepared….BEFORE men are born, grow, hear, learn, freely choose.

IMO…A pretty irrelevant complaint on your part. I highly doubt God considered Consulting His creations, on how great or how little Gods Knowledge should be.

That is the Demonic John Calvin teaching that before some are born, God has "decreed" that they are born only to burn in the Lake of FIRE. = pre-destined.

Calvin is not demonic for speaking the TRUTH.

"Pre-destined by GOD, to go to Hell, then the Lake of Fire"...

Individuals freely choose their destination…
God happens to KNOW before the man does.
So…many men will freely choose to stand against God….
AND…so what…their body and soul will be thrown in the lake of fire….so what?
Their body will be without LIFE in it…
Their soul will be without LIFE in it….
Do you KNOW what a life-LESS body FEELS or a life-LESS soul FEELS? NOTHING!!!

Your complaint is nonsense and your accusations are false.

Glory to our GREAT ALL KNOWING God,

Taken

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

False…not for Just being born.
False…implication.



When you OMIT pertinent information…you arrive at a FALSE conclusion.

God IS ALL KNOWING…
God IS a PREPARER, rather that WAIT AND SEE…then scramble to prepare…

Point…God…All knowing….Knows who will stand WITH Him and who will stand AGAINST Him…

Do you Know who DOES NOT KNOW “THAT” information? Every naturally born individual man! Every individual man, hears, learns, freely accepts or rejects according TO HIS OWN WILL…He is informed of the consequences FOR whatever He freely chooses.

And God…In his Wisdom, Prepared a Place for every individual …. According to the individuals own freewill Choice.

God’s Pre-destination…DOES NOT MEAN GOD CHOSE for men. It simply means Gods already KNOWS who will freely choose what…

Guess what…men who write books, make movies….already KNOW the ending before the reader or observer…so what?

You appear to be in duress….because God is ALL Knowing….and ALL Prepared….BEFORE men are born, grow, hear, learn, freely choose.

IMO…A pretty irrelevant complaint on your part. I highly doubt God considered Consulting His creations, on how great or how little Gods Knowledge should be.



Calvin is not demonic for speaking the TRUTH.



Individuals freely choose their destination…
God happens to KNOW before the man does.
So…many men will freely choose to stand against God….
AND…so what…their body and soul will be thrown in the lake of fire….so what?
Their body will be without LIFE in it…
Their soul will be without LIFE in it….
Do you KNOW what a life-LESS body FEELS or a life-LESS soul FEELS? NOTHING!!!

Your complaint is nonsense and your accusations are false.

Glory to our GREAT ALL KNOWING God,

Taken

However, "foreknowledge" in Romans 8:28, 29 means much more than knowing ahead of time when it is between persons. It means in the Bible a previous committed love of one for another, that is, God for a human. God loved believers before he made anyone. People choose, but God pre-chooses them first. God's plans mean that he's on the throne without being to blame for sinful human choices, while humans are completely responsible for all of theirs.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Predestination According to Demonic John Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that God would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death."., (Just for being born).

So, according to Calvin's theology, some of your family were "pre-chosen" by God to burn in the Lake of Fire, before they were even born.

Sorry but lies again!

All men are born condemned. People go to the lake of fire by default, God did not destine them, they are lost by nature.

So God chose some from eternity past to have mercy on and save them.

It is just a like a warden walking on death row. All are condemned to die and he simply chooses to pardon some. YOu'll find out when you can rid your soul of that darkness that overwhelms you.

 

[Behold]

Why don't you talk about Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 and other passages that talk about God's predestination?

I have., many times.

Ive talked about and taught about the fact that Calvin's Root Theologically issue, that is His deception, is that Calvin confused "Foreknowledge" with "Pre-destined".

This is the fatal flaw of the "pre-destined elect" doctrine of Devils.

See, Calvin believed that "God knowing everything that is going to happen" is God "causing it"..
So, that is the misconception that defines the broken foundation inside the Theology of Calvin., and that is why he falsely predestines everything.
Calvin redefined "God's Foreknowledge" as "God predestined it all", and that is a "doctrine of Devils" that is the core of Calvinism.

 

[Ritajanice]

Commentary and scripture.

Can God cause someone to believe in Him?​

As far as God causing someone to believe in him, the Scriptures tell us that God can do exactly that. Here are five of many Scriptures that support this idea.

• Prov. 21:1, “The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.”
• John 1:12-13, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.”
• Acts 16:14, “A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.”
• Phil. 1:29, “Philippians 1:29, “For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.”
• 1 Pet. 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

Proverbs 21:1​

We see from Proverbs 21:1, that God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. If God can do this, then he can also move the heart of any individual to where he wants it to go, including believing in him. Yet, the Molinists teach us that God cannot cause anyone to believe in Christ. In other words, God cannot cause a person’s heart to turn where he wishes it to go lest he violates a person’s free will. Proverbs 21:1 contradicts the Molinist position.

John 1:13​

In John 1:13 we see that people are born (the context is born again) not of their own wills, but of God. This is consistent with biblical theology that reveals the depravity of man and his inability to freely choose God within his unregenerate and sinful nature (John 6:65; Rom. 3:10-12; 1 Cor. 2:14, etc.) If Scripture tells us that we are born (again) not of our own will, but of the will of God, then what is the Molinist to do? After all, Molinists affirm libertarian free will and also affirm that under the right circumstances, with prevenient grace, the person will be born again by his own free will choice. Yet, Scripture tells us we’re born again by the will of God, not the will of man – including libertarian free will motivated out of prevenient grace. John 1:13 contradicts the Molinist position.

Acts 16:14​

In Acts 16:14 we see that God opened the heart of Lydia to respond to the things spoken of by Paul. Now, we know that she was already a worshiper of God, though not yet a Christian. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message of salvation since afterward, she was baptized (v. 15). If libertarian free will is true, then why did God have to open her heart? Why didn’t she just freely believe under the right circumstances? Why didn’t God just arrange things so that she was motivated out of her own conscience, and her own will, to decide to believe in Paul’s teaching? If libertarian free will is true and human freedom is the final arbiter of belief in Christ, then why did God have to open her heart? It makes no sense. And, since we see that her opened heart was the result of God’s work, and that she then believed, we can see God caused someone to believe. Acts 16:14 contradicts the Molinist position.

Philippians 1:29​

Philippians 1:29 tells us that God is the one who grants that we believe. I am reminded of Romans 9:16 which says, “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.” The Romans 9 context is about what God does among people, including his mercy upon them (v. 15) and his ordination of them for destruction or salvation (vv. 21-23). Nevertheless, Philippians tells us that it is God who grants that we believe. If it were true that the unregenerate, sinfully-enslaved person can freely believe given the right circumstances, then why does Philippians 1:29 say that God grants that we believe? The granting cannot be an arrangement of circumstances. It is granting the actual belief.

• “charisthḗsomai, it means to be permitted or granted something (1 Cor. 2:12; Phil. 1:29; Phile. 1:22).” (Zodhiates, Spiros. The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament. Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000.)
• “χαρίζομαιa: to give or grant graciously and generously, with the implication of good will on the part of the giver—‘to give, to grant, to bestow generously.” (Louw, Johannes P., and Eugene Albert Nida. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains. New York: United Bible Societies, 1996.)
• “it is given—Greek, “it has been granted as a favor,” or “gift of grace.” Faith is the gift of God (Eph 2:8), not wrought in the soul by the will of man, but by the Holy Ghost (Jn 1:12, 13).” (Jamieson, Robert, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997.)

This granting is not arranging circumstances, as some libertarians have asserted. Nor is it the addition of prevenient grace that enables a person to freely choose. Philippians 1:29 speaks against these ideas. Philippians 1:29 contradicts the Molinist position.

1 Peter 1:3​

In 1 Peter 1:3 we see that God caused people to be born again. This means he caused them to be changed internally, to be given the new birth. It was not the result of LFW, but of God’s direct work.

 

[One 2 question]

Commentary and scripture.

Can God cause someone to believe in Him?​

As far as God causing someone to believe in him, the Scriptures tell us that God can do exactly that. Here are five of many Scriptures that support this idea.

• Prov. 21:1, “The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.”
• John 1:12-13, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.”
• Acts 16:14, “A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.”
• Phil. 1:29, “Philippians 1:29, “For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.”
• 1 Pet. 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

Proverbs 21:1​

We see from Proverbs 21:1, that God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. If God can do this, then he can also move the heart of any individual to where he wants it to go, including believing in him. Yet, the Molinists teach us that God cannot cause anyone to believe in Christ. In other words, God cannot cause a person’s heart to turn where he wishes it to go lest he violates a person’s free will. Proverbs 21:1 contradicts the Molinist position.

John 1:13​

In John 1:13 we see that people are born (the context is born again) not of their own wills, but of God. This is consistent with biblical theology that reveals the depravity of man and his inability to freely choose God within his unregenerate and sinful nature (John 6:65; Rom. 3:10-12; 1 Cor. 2:14, etc.) If Scripture tells us that we are born (again) not of our own will, but of the will of God, then what is the Molinist to do? After all, Molinists affirm libertarian free will and also affirm that under the right circumstances, with prevenient grace, the person will be born again by his own free will choice. Yet, Scripture tells us we’re born again by the will of God, not the will of man – including libertarian free will motivated out of prevenient grace. John 1:13 contradicts the Molinist position.

Acts 16:14​

In Acts 16:14 we see that God opened the heart of Lydia to respond to the things spoken of by Paul. Now, we know that she was already a worshiper of God, though not yet a Christian. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message of salvation since afterward, she was baptized (v. 15). If libertarian free will is true, then why did God have to open her heart? Why didn’t she just freely believe under the right circumstances? Why didn’t God just arrange things so that she was motivated out of her own conscience, and her own will, to decide to believe in Paul’s teaching? If libertarian free will is true and human freedom is the final arbiter of belief in Christ, then why did God have to open her heart? It makes no sense. And, since we see that her opened heart was the result of God’s work, and that she then believed, we can see God caused someone to believe. Acts 16:14 contradicts the Molinist position.

Philippians 1:29​

Philippians 1:29 tells us that God is the one who grants that we believe. I am reminded of Romans 9:16 which says, “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.” The Romans 9 context is about what God does among people, including his mercy upon them (v. 15) and his ordination of them for destruction or salvation (vv. 21-23). Nevertheless, Philippians tells us that it is God who grants that we believe. If it were true that the unregenerate, sinfully-enslaved person can freely believe given the right circumstances, then why does Philippians 1:29 say that God grants that we believe? The granting cannot be an arrangement of circumstances. It is granting the actual belief.

• “charisthḗsomai, it means to be permitted or granted something (1 Cor. 2:12; Phil. 1:29; Phile. 1:22).” (Zodhiates, Spiros. The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament. Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000.)
• “χαρίζομαιa: to give or grant graciously and generously, with the implication of good will on the part of the giver—‘to give, to grant, to bestow generously.” (Louw, Johannes P., and Eugene Albert Nida. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains. New York: United Bible Societies, 1996.)
• “it is given—Greek, “it has been granted as a favor,” or “gift of grace.” Faith is the gift of God (Eph 2:8), not wrought in the soul by the will of man, but by the Holy Ghost (Jn 1:12, 13).” (Jamieson, Robert, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997.)

This granting is not arranging circumstances, as some libertarians have asserted. Nor is it the addition of prevenient grace that enables a person to freely choose. Philippians 1:29 speaks against these ideas. Philippians 1:29 contradicts the Molinist position.

1 Peter 1:3​

In 1 Peter 1:3 we see that God caused people to be born again. This means he caused them to be changed internally, to be given the new birth. It was not the result of LFW, but of God’s direct work.

I hear it echoed time and again, let God do this or that, as if He needs one's permission or decision or cooperation or act of their will to allow or enable God to do a certain thing in their life.

Another one is, God doesn't do anything or God can't do anything unless we pray for it first. As if nothing can be performed by God unless we release it into existence.

If this is the case then another could question, who was there with God when He created the very first thing into existence, praying that God act, causing God to perform His first act of creating.

But I'm sure this can be answered easily by someone here.

 

[Behold]

Another one is, God doesn't do anything or God can't do anything unless we pray for it first.

"With God, all things are Possible"

"Is there anything too hard for God"?

However, what God wont do, is force you to believe in Jesus.
He lets us decide to trust in Christ or not.

God caused us to have Free Will, so that WE choose what we do, and so, the consequences are based on that...

Just Like 1st Adam..
HE Chose to eat that fruit... and He lost everything.

God could have created Adam, without any free will, or decision making capability, but to do that, the creation is a moral-less, puppet......not someone who is "let us make man in Our Image"... and Man was made in God's likeness, "image" and part of that is FREE WILL.

Reader.........what did..... it cost God, to allow us all to have freedom, and freedom of Choice... (Free will). ????

It cost Him The Cross of Christ.

Think on that...

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

I have., many times.

Ive talked about and taught about the fact that Calvin's Root Theologically issue, that is His deception, is that Calvin confused "Foreknowledge" with "Pre-destined".

This is the fatal flaw of the "pre-destined elect" doctrine of Devils.

See, Calvin believed that "God knowing everything that is going to happen" is God "causing it"..
So, that is the misconception that defines the broken foundation inside the Theology of Calvin., and that is why he falsely predestines everything.
Calvin redefined "God's Foreknowledge" as "God predestined it all", and that is a "doctrine of Devils" that is the core of Calvinism.

Show me quotes from his writings where he says that foreknowledge is the same as predestination. However, they do go together in Romans 8:28, 29: "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

The question is what the meaning of "foreknow" is. Our reasoning and common knowledge would draw the conclusion that it means "knowing about an event beforehand," but we need to see how the Bible as God's Word defines its own words. For example, when two persons are involved with knowing each other, the word takes on a deeper meaning, as in the following verses (ESV):

Gen_4:1: Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.”
Gen_4:17: Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.
Gen_4:25: And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.”

We can see that between persons, the word "know" involves a close, loving relationship. Therefore, the word "foreknowledge" used for God means that he "fore-loved" believers before he created anything or anyone. And Paul says that all the people God fore-loved, he chose to be believers (see Ephesians 1:1-14). That's what God's Word says. It may present problems for your human logic, and there is a lot of mystery surrounding God's plans and ours, but Calvinism accepts the Bible's mysteries. Apparently, you don't.

 

[Behold]

Show me quotes from his writings where he says that foreknowledge is the same as predestination.

Calvin's theology of pre-destined, is that its the same as "God's foreknowledge".

What God fore-knew, God has pre-destined.

Remember?
Or have you never realized this theological doctrine of devils before?

And that is why Calvin pre-destines what is not pre-destined, but is only Fore-known by God.

That's the reality.

 

[Behold]

Therefore, the word "foreknowledge" used for God means that he "fore-loved"

Your concept.... is one extremely narrow minded idea regarding God's Foreknowledge, that you are trying to overlay on all of it.
So, that's nonsense.
Its really bad theology, @Bruce-Leiter .

Let me show you something..

The BIBLE is "God's Foreknowledge"......

The Bible is God showing you, what He knows, before it Happens...(God's Foreknowledge)..., including the upcoming Rapture...and Trib, and Grt Trib, and Millennial reign of Christ., that are YET to come.
Understand?
However, that is not God Causing it.......that is God REVEALING IT, as the Bible, which is God's Fore-Knowledge, in a BOOK of REVELATION, and not just JOHN's.

So, its the same with "who does God save".. ?

God saves, "ALL... ALL, who will BELIEVE".. John 3:16.....and not "only who Calvin pre-destined, regarding His doctrine of devil's" and other Satanic "limited Atonement" Theology., @Bruce-Leiter .

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Calvin's theology of pre-destined, is that its the same as "God's foreknowledge".

What God fore-knew, God has pre-destined.

Remember?
Or have you never realized this theological doctrine of devils before?

And that is why Calvin pre-destines what is not pre-destined, but is only Fore-known by God.

That's the reality.

Okay, talk about Romans 8:29, where Paul says that the people God foreknew in a loving relationship (the Bible's meaning for "foreknow"), he also predestined. Why do you disagree with Paul? Rom 8:29--"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

 

[Behold]

Okay, talk about Romans 8:29, where Paul says that the people God foreknew in a loving relationship (the Bible's meaning for "foreknow"), he also predestined. Why do you disagree with Paul? Rom 8:29--"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Thanks for the question...

So..
This verse has 2 main parts, and never does it say "elect" .. but a Calvinist will read that into the verse, as they have been trained by Calvinistic Theology, to do it.

Listen,..... a Christian leads you to Christ.
While a Calvinist leads you to Calvin, and TULIP.
= Those are not the same, Reader., and be sure you realize it, or a Calvinist will deceive you, just as they have been deceived.

Now..... Paul's verse has 2 parts, that are the context..

1.) "Foreknew"

and

2.) "Predestined to be conformed.""

So, this is very simple to understand, unless it become convoluted by Calvin's obsession to see everything as "pre-destined".

Therefore, if we get out of that "Calvin filter", and just look at "foreknew, and "predestined to be CONFORMED".. as the verse states them....

1.) God "foreknew"......what? He foreknew Everything before it happens next, as that is God's Foreknowledge always in operation.

Its God omnipotent ability as GOD, to know BEFORE it happens, (foreknowledge) everything that is going to happen next.

Including what you are thinking reader, and what you will do next..

So, lets apply Paul's verse in a strict context, regarding a born again believer, as that is Paul's verse.

A.) Before you are born, before you are conceived, before Jesus died on The Cross, God KNOWS who is going to Trust in Christ... as that is God's "Foreknowledge."

So, if we twist that as Calvin does, and as TULIP does, then it becomes this.. "God pre-destined them to be saved".. .vs.. God only FOREKNEW that they would, as Paul's verse teaches..

Next..

"predestined to be conformed".

Again, very simple to understand, until Calvin mangles it into pre-destined oblivion.

The verse said "Predestined to be conformed"/

And what is that? WHAT is pre-destined to be conformed?????
That is a Born again Believer, who is pre-destined to be CONFORMED, into the Image of Christ.
See that ?
That is a conforming into the Image of Christ that is pre-destined to happen, after they are born again.
It will happen to us all ...who are truly born again..... after we die or during the Rapture, as its a later manifestation that happens when we are "all changed" "in the twinkling of an eye" .
This is when the believer gets their new Body.

Reader, we are born again "in Christ" and later we are "conformed into the image of Christ".., as that is pre-destined to happen to a born again CHRISTian.

See those?

Now, What a Calvinist does with this verse, as Calvinism and TULIP taught them to do, is teach it as, "you are pre-destined to be saved" or "you are predestined to believe".. because you are predestined.

Yet the verse does not say that......it says that there is a ""pre-destined conforming'" that happens BECAUSE the person becomes born again..
It happens LATER, and its pre-destined to happen, because its based on the new birth.. .its based on being born again, to begin with.. as THEN what is "predestined", which is "to be conformed".............is going to happen later.


And in all of this, God Foreknew it would happen to all who trusted in Christ.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Thanks for the question...

So..
This verse has 2 main parts, and never does it say "elect" .. but a Calvinist will read that into the verse, as they have been trained by Calvinistic Theology, to do it.

Listen,..... a Christian leads you to Christ.
While a Calvinist leads you to Calvin, and TULIP.
= Those are not the same, Reader., and be sure you realize it, or a Calvinist will deceive you, just as they have been deceived.

Now..... Paul's verse has 2 parts, that are the context..

1.) "Foreknew"

and

2.) "Predestined to be conformed.""

So, this is very simple to understand, unless it become convoluted by Calvin's obsession to see everything as "pre-destined".

Therefore, if we get out of that "Calvin filter", and just look at "foreknew, and "predestined to be CONFORMED".. as the verse states them....

1.) God "foreknew"......what? He foreknew Everything before it happens next, as that is God's Foreknowledge always in operation.

Its God omnipotent ability as GOD, to know BEFORE it happens, (foreknowledge) everything that is going to happen next.

Including what you are thinking reader, and what you will do next..

So, lets apply Paul's verse in a strict context, regarding a born again believer, as that is Paul's verse.

A.) Before you are born, before you are conceived, before Jesus died on The Cross, God KNOWS who is going to Trust in Christ... as that is God's "Foreknowledge."

So, if we twist that as Calvin does, and as TULIP does, then it becomes this.. "God pre-destined them to be saved".. .vs.. God only FOREKNEW that they would, as Paul's verse teaches..

Next..

"predestined to be conformed".

Again, very simple to understand, until Calvin mangles it into pre-destined oblivion.

The verse said "Predestined to be conformed"/

And what is that? WHAT is pre-destined to be conformed?????
That is a Born again Believer, who is pre-destined to be CONFORMED, into the Image of Christ.
See that ?
That is a conforming into the Image of Christ that is pre-destined to happen, after they are born again.
It will happen to us all ...who are truly born again..... after we die or during the Rapture, as its a later manifestation that happens when we are "all changed" "in the twinkling of an eye" .
This is when the believer gets their new Body.

Reader, we are born again "in Christ" and later we are "conformed into the image of Christ".., as that is pre-destined to happen to a born again CHRISTian.

See those?

Now, What a Calvinist does with this verse, as Calvinism and TULIP taught them to do, is teach it as, "you are pre-destined to be saved" or "you are predestined to believe".. because you are predestined.

Yet the verse does not say that......it says that there is a ""pre-destined conforming'" that happens BECAUSE the person becomes born again..
It happens LATER, and its pre-destined to happen, because its based on the new birth.. .its based on being born again, to begin with.. as THEN what is "predestined", which is "to be conformed".............is going to happen later.


And in all of this, God Foreknew it would happen to all who trusted in Christ.

Brother, you go through a lot of verbiage to say very little. Are you saying that we are predestined to be conformed to Jesus' image after we are saved? If that's what you're saying, God makes us to be like Jesus as soon as we first believe, and that image grows as we pray to and serve him (2 Corinthians 3:18) as his glory grows within us, as the next verse says: Rom 8:30 "And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

From before creation, God foreknew (fore-loved), predestined, called, justified, and glorified believers. No matter of verbal juggling is going to change the clear teaching of those two verses (29 and 30). But it's not fatalism in which humans have no responsibilty. We all are responsible to accept God's five free gifts; our refusal is and should be fatal.

 

[Behold]

Brother, you go through a lot of verbiage to say very little.

Actually i taught a lot of sound theology that didnt land in your understanding.

A.) You are Mind blinded by Calvin & TULIP, which blocks LIGHT.

Here is a mystery for you to consider.

The Holy Spirit of God, didn't lead you to become a disciple of Calvin, and His twisted doctrine of Devils.
See the Holy Spirit, is not a Calvinist.
The good news is, the HS, can lead you out of it.

So, Im mainly talking to the non-Calvinists through you and RitaJ, and Brightframe and Authur81, as you 4 are the issue, as your 4 are the "stand up and be counted for Calvinism" salesman, regarding John Calvinism and TULIP..... So, its for those who are potentially being led into it by people like you 4, here on the Forum... .. THEY, are the main reason im talking to you 4, about this Satanic cult theology.

Its to protect them.

Are you saying that we are predestined to be conformed to Jesus' image after we are saved? If that's what you're saying, God makes us to be like Jesus as soon as we first believe,

Brother, you are nothing like Jesus, when you first believed.
You were a sinner, a lifetime sinner, who just became, redeemed.
Trust me when i tell you, that that is "nothing like Jesus".

However, we are become "made righteous", instantly..... BECAUSE of the imputed righteousness of Jesus, that is "the GIFT of Righteousness".
However that is not your behavior, that is your redemption, having occurred as the new birth of your Spirit.
And that didnt happen by Water Baptism.

Also, if you are just like Jesus, then take your phone camera, and take a photo of your New body, and how you received it in the Rapture, while in the AIR, where you met the LORD as He was descending.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Actually i taught a lot of sound theology that didnt land in your understanding.

A.) You are Mind blinded by Calvin & TULIP, which blocks LIGHT.

Here is a mystery for you to consider.

The Holy Spirit of God, didn't lead you to become a disciple of Calvin, and His twisted doctrine of Devils.
See the Holy Spirit, is not a Calvinist.
The good news is, the HS, can lead you out of it.

So, Im mainly talking to the non-Calvinists through you and RitaJ, and Brightframe and Authur81, as you 4 are the issue, as your 4 are the "stand up and be counted for Calvinism" salesman, regarding John Calvinism and TULIP..... So, its for those who are potentially being led into it by people like you 4, here on the Forum... .. THEY, are the main reason im talking to you 4, about this Satanic cult theology.

Its to protect them.



Brother, you are nothing like Jesus, when you first believed.
You were a sinner, a lifetime sinner, who just became, redeemed.
Trust me when i tell you, that that is "nothing like Jesus".

However, we are become "made righteous", instantly..... BECAUSE of the imputed righteousness of Jesus, that is "the GIFT of Righteousness".
However that is not your behavior, that is your redemption, having occurred as the new birth of your Spirit.
And that didnt happen by Water Baptism.

Also, if you are just like Jesus, then take your phone camera, and take a photo of your New body, and how you received it in the Rapture, while in the AIR, where you met the LORD as He was descending.

What gets me about your approach to theology, brother, is that you don't talk about Scripture much, only voicing your ideas, mostly against Calvinists, or at least your ideas about what you think they believe, which are inaccurate. You never have answered my question about how Calvinists have hurt you.

 

[Behold]

What gets me about your approach to theology, brother, is that you don't talk about Scripture much

I do quote verses. I use yours to show you the deception that is Calvin's doctrines of Devils.

So, like all Calvinists, you dont need more verses posted in your direction..., as all you'll do is "pre-destine" them and "elect" them all, as Calvin's disciples can do nothing more and nothing less.

Just remember, you are the one SELLING Calvinism, and that should fill you with dread, once you realize it. ... if you can.
And how many years you've been doing it ????? , = is how many years you are under this situation....

Galatians 1:8

See, a Calvinist, believes that SELLING Calvinism and TULIP, is "teaching Christianity", and that is the extreme deception they are controlled by, therein....

Others, who are not mentally locked by Calvin's theological poison, will clearly see you, and what you are doing here and on other "Calvinism Threads"........and this is what you and RitaJ, and Brightframe, and Authur81, will feel compelled to continue to do.

And that is the goal of my Thread., regarding all who come to read what ive posted = regarding Calvin and TULIP< which are a "Doctrines of Devils'.. Hebrews 13:9

Its to protect them all from demonic Calvinism and TULIP, while highlighting you as the SELLER, as well as those others who are doing it, that ive mentioned.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary.

4. John 15:26: The Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus Christ​

Jesus taught that “when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” (John 15:26). Latter-day Saints believe that one of the main roles of the Holy Ghost is to testify of truth, especially of Jesus Christ and His divinity! It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can receive a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Redeemer of the World

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

I do quote verses. I use yours to show you the deception that is Calvin's doctrines of Devils.

So, like all Calvinists, you dont need more verses posted in your direction..., as all you'll do is "pre-destine" them and "elect" them all, as Calvin's disciples can do nothing more and nothing less.

Just remember, you are the one SELLING Calvinism, and that should fill you with dread, once you realize it. ... if you can.
And how many years you've been doing it ????? , = is how many years you are under this situation....

Galatians 1:8

See, a Calvinist, believes that SELLING Calvinism and TULIP, is "teaching Christianity", and that is the extreme deception they are controlled by, therein....

Others, who are not mentally locked by Calvin's theological poison, will clearly see you, and what you are doing here and on other "Calvinism Threads"........and this is what you and RitaJ, and Brightframe, and Authur81, will feel compelled to continue to do.

And that is the goal of my Thread., regarding all who come to read what ive posted = regarding Calvin and TULIP< which are a "Doctrines of Devils'.. Hebrews 13:9

Its to protect them all from demonic Calvinism and TULIP, while highlighting you as the SELLER, as well as those others who are doing it, that ive mentioned.

I was an English teacher and then a sales manager before God renewed an old call to be a pastor, which I was for 27 years in the Christian Reformed Church. I'm not trying to sell you Calvinism. I am responding to your complete misunderstanding of Calvinism by trying to inform you. But you can believe what you want.

When each of us stands before God, he will call us to account, but I won't say that I told you so. We will both be safe in the arms of Jesus, as I assume that you're a Christian.

What puzzles me is how you can be so critical of your inaccurate version of Calvinism when you haven't investigated the original sources for yourself.

I was christened a Methodist, grew up in and joined a theologically-liberal church, received God's new birth in a Baptist church, attended a cult for a while, and became convinced that the Reformed interpretation of Scripture was the best one at Calvin College and Seminary.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Short commentary.

4. John 15:26: The Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus Christ​

Jesus taught that “when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” (John 15:26). Latter-day Saints believe that one of the main roles of the Holy Ghost is to testify of truth, especially of Jesus Christ and His divinity! It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can receive a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Redeemer of the World

Yes, it takes the Holy Spirit's influence to enable us to believe in Jesus as the only way to the Father's acceptance. But the Father does not have a human body; neither does he live on an outer-space planet, the way the Mormons believe. Most of all, God is one, not three Gods, also the way they believe; he is one God in three Persons, as clearly displayed in the Gospel of John.

 

[Behold]

Short commentary.

4. John 15:26: The Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus Christ​

Jesus taught that “when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” (John 15:26). Latter-day Saints believe that one of the main roles of the Holy Ghost is to testify of truth, especially of Jesus Christ and His divinity! It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can receive a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Redeemer of the World

You are quoting the Mormon theology.