Islamic Approach to Textual Criticism

[KUWN]

When the Caliph Othman fixed a text of the Qur'an and destroyed all the old copies which differed from his standard, he provided for the uniformity of subsequent manuscripts at the cost of their historical foundation. A classical text which rests finally on a single archetype is that which is open to the most serious suspicions.

At the polar opposite end of the Textual Criticism spectrum is the Christian approach. Christian Textual Critics are always looking for MORE manuscripts to determine the wording of the Originals. There are many variants in the NT manuscript tradition but that does not intimidate the Christians because the more manuscripts you can find, especially of an old date, the closer you will come to finding and correcting errors in copying and to finding out the original wording.

Today, we have about 103% of the original NT wording. With more study of the extant manuscript evidence, the closer we will get the percent nearer 100%. Perhaps one day, we will discover some of the Originals.

 

[Matthias]

When the Caliph Othman fixed a text of the Qur'an and destroyed all the old copies which differed from his standard, he provided for the uniformity of subsequent manuscripts at the cost of their historical foundation. A classical text which rests finally on a single archetype is that which is open to the most serious suspicions.

That’s interesting. Adding a source would be helpful.

At the polar opposite end of the Textual Criticism spectrum is the Christian approach. Christian Textual Critics are always looking for MORE manuscripts to determine the wording of the Originals. There are many variants in the NT manuscript tradition but that does not intimidate the Christians because the more manuscripts you can find, especially of an old date, the closer you will come to finding and correcting errors in copying and to finding out the original wording.

Today, we have about 103% of the original NT wording. With more study of the extant manuscript evidence, the closer we will get the percent nearer 100%. Perhaps one day, we will discover some of the Originals.

 

[KUWN]

That’s interesting. Adding a source would be helpful.

The info on the Islamic piece is found in the book The Text of the New Testament, by the Alands. I am about 80% sure that is where I got it. It is in my notes that I took while reading his and his wife's book.

The 103% is from a conversation with my former boss, Dan Wallace of Dallas Theological Seminary. I believe you can hear him say this at Youtube. Just search under his name and Textual Criticism.

Hope this helps and thanks for asking. I like it when people want to go to the original source!!

 

[Windmill Charge]

Answering Islam has a number of articles about the quantity see

Textual Variants of the Qur'an

 

[GodsGrace]

When the Caliph Othman fixed a text of the Qur'an and destroyed all the old copies which differed from his standard, he provided for the uniformity of subsequent manuscripts at the cost of their historical foundation. A classical text which rests finally on a single archetype is that which is open to the most serious suspicions.

At the polar opposite end of the Textual Criticism spectrum is the Christian approach. Christian Textual Critics are always looking for MORE manuscripts to determine the wording of the Originals. There are many variants in the NT manuscript tradition but that does not intimidate the Christians because the more manuscripts you can find, especially of an old date, the closer you will come to finding and correcting errors in copying and to finding out the original wording.

Today, we have about 103% of the original NT wording. With more study of the extant manuscript evidence, the closer we will get the percent nearer 100%. Perhaps one day, we will discover some of the Originals.

 

[amigo de christo]

What would it have mattered . they have not the truth .
whether or not is has been or not , it wont have mattered . For as dust is in high wind
and do scatter at a strong storms wind , SO too shall all scatter who Knew not JESUS THE CHRIST .
just dust in the wind . All that matters is did one truly believe in HE whom GOD did send .
And the religion of islam does not . IT only sees him as some kind of prophet and NOT THE CHRIST .
its all just dust in the wind as is any other religion .
TO the trenches and let all who name the name of JESUS THE CHRIST procliam the dire reminders to all
of the dire and absolute need to beleive ON JESUS the CHRIST .

 

[Lizbeth]

What would it have mattered . they have not the truth .
whether or not is has been or not , it wont have mattered . For as dust is in high wind
and do scatter at a strong storms wind , SO too shall all scatter who Knew not JESUS THE CHRIST .
just dust in the wind . All that matters is did one truly believe in HE whom GOD did send .
And the religion of islam does not . IT only sees him as some kind of prophet and NOT THE CHRIST .
its all just dust in the wind as is any other religion .
TO the trenches and let all who name the name of JESUS THE CHRIST procliam the dire reminders to all
of the dire and absolute need to beleive ON JESUS the CHRIST .

Amen.

With respect, I'm not sure what the point about Islamic manuscripts was for...what that had to do with biblical manuscripts. I doubt any original Islamic texts affirmed Christ as messiah and Lord so would still have been a deception.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen.

With respect, I'm not sure what the point about Islamic manuscripts was for...what that had to do with biblical manuscripts. I doubt any original Islamic texts affirmed Christ as messiah and Lord so would still have been a deception.

I believe i know what has been going on within all religoins . In order to merge them you have to remove
some fundamental things . If you notice they do the same within christendome . Always making it look
like some older more accurate version was there .
They are gonna push them heavily to all find common ground , and they will use the golden rule to do it too sister .
What they have been doing within christendome , they have been doing within all the religoins all along .
Make the texts look not so accurate and they will focus on this love GOD with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself
ONLY in all cases , JESUS THE CHRIST and the DIRE NEED to believe on HIM will be removed .
THEY are gonna MERGE these religoins and this world sister .
In fact they are pretty far along in this already . they have been at works for years doing this .
They want us to beleive we all serve the same GOD. Interfaith has made that darn clear .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Brother @amigo de christo is spotted!

 

[Marvelloustime]

I believe i know what has been going on within all religoins . In order to merge them you have to remove
some fundamental things . If you notice they do the same within christendome . Always making it look
like some older more accurate version was there .
They are gonna push them heavily to all find common ground , and they will use the golden rule to do it too sister .
What they have been doing within christendome , they have been doing within all the religoins all along .
Make the texts look not so accurate and they will focus on this love GOD with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself
ONLY in all cases , JESUS THE CHRIST and the DIRE NEED to believe on HIM will be removed .
THEY are gonna MERGE these religoins and this world sister .
In fact they are pretty far along in this already . they have been at works for years doing this .
They want us to beleive we all serve the same GOD. Interfaith has made that darn clear .

@amigo de christo

 

[Lizbeth]

I believe i know what has been going on within all religoins . In order to merge them you have to remove
some fundamental things . If you notice they do the same within christendome . Always making it look
like some older more accurate version was there .
They are gonna push them heavily to all find common ground , and they will use the golden rule to do it too sister .
What they have been doing within christendome , they have been doing within all the religoins all along .
Make the texts look not so accurate and they will focus on this love GOD with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself
ONLY in all cases , JESUS THE CHRIST and the DIRE NEED to believe on HIM will be removed .
THEY are gonna MERGE these religoins and this world sister .
In fact they are pretty far along in this already . they have been at works for years doing this .
They want us to beleive we all serve the same GOD. Interfaith has made that darn clear .

Yes...I'm hoping this wasn't an attempt to conflate Christianity and Islam together. But maybe the poster will clarify what he/she had in mind.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes...I'm hoping this wasn't an attempt to conflate Christianity and Islam together. But maybe the poster will clarify what he/she had in mind.

I was speaking in general of what is going on with all the religoins .
But still it would be good to hear why this poster was even bringing this in the first place .

 

[Marvelloustime]

I was speaking in general of what is going on with all the religoins .
But still it would be good to hear why this poster was even bringing this in the first place .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes...I'm hoping this wasn't an attempt to conflate Christianity and Islam together. But maybe the poster will clarify what he/she had in mind.

this too is why we have seen such an uptick in folks trying to remind all about the ten commandments
AND YET they say NOTHING about having to BELIEVE JESUS IS the CHRIST .
cause even muslims claim to keep and adhere to such things . THEY TRYING to merge all now sister .
You gonna see a religoin whose center will be JERSUALEM and under it shall all the merged religoins sit as one .
ONLY it wont be UNDER THE GOD OF ABRHAM ISSAC and JACOB , for it will DENY the dire need
to have BELIEVED ON JESUS THE CHRIST . Its moving in fast sister and common ground increases through interfaith .
And sadly they believe its the working and the will of GOD . ONLY What was the will of GOD again .
TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . i dont seem to hear HIS WILL ANYWHERE in these messages they bring sister .
Rather i hear the will of men whose will is simply to merge THESE RELIGOINS as one under what they all believe is GOD .
Things are not looking good at all in these last hours sister .

 

[Lizbeth]

this too is why we have seen such an uptick in folks trying to remind all about the ten commandments
AND YET they say NOTHING about having to BELIEVE JESUS IS the CHRIST .
cause even muslims claim to keep and adhere to such things . THEY TRYING to merge all now sister .
You gonna see a religoin whose center will be JERSUALEM and under it shall all the merged religoins sit as one .
ONLY it wont be UNDER THE GOD OF ABRHAM ISSAC and JACOB , for it will DENY the dire need
to have BELIEVED ON JESUS THE CHRIST . Its moving in fast sister and common ground increases through interfaith .
And sadly they believe its the working and the will of GOD . ONLY What was the will of GOD again .
TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . i dont seem to hear HIS WILL ANYWHERE in these messages they bring sister .
Rather i hear the will of men whose will is simply to merge THESE RELIGOINS as one under what they all believe is GOD .
Things are not looking good at all in these last hours sister .

I agree brother. The lukewarm/nominal are going under in these days....so sad to see! Hope some will hear and separate themselves from this deception.

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree brother. The lukewarm/nominal are going under in these days....so sad to see! Hope some will hear and separate themselves from this deception.

Me too sister . i sure hope some do hear and repent .
Which now brings me to this reminder . AND HOW Shall they hear
And yet what has been done in these last hours . WHEN a man tries to speak this true gospel unto them so as they MIGHT hear
They get told you hater , stop judging and etc . THEY SILENCING the mouths of those
who PREACH the message by a false love mindset . And sadly the lukewarm DO NOT SEE THIS .

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree brother. The lukewarm/nominal are going under in these days....so sad to see! Hope some will hear and separate themselves from this deception.

Oh but the sheep do hear my sister . so onwards shall we march in the LORD pointing to CHRIST JESUS
some will hear and many will reject . But the song they cannot pry from our mouths . The song gonna continue
to be played for all to hear no matter the cost unto those who do so . The peak hour is hitting sister .
And the time cometh when the DOOR shall be closed and all outside shall wail .
TILL that day and that hour we sing THE TRUE SONG of GOD , WHICH BE THE TRUE GOSPEL of GOD
and do so till our last breath or the LORD DO COME .

 

[Lizbeth]

Me too sister . i sure hope some do hear and repent .
Which now brings me to this reminder . AND HOW Shall they hear
And yet what has been done in these last hours . WHEN a man tries to speak this true gospel unto them so as they MIGHT hear
They get told you hater , stop judging and etc . THEY SILENCING the mouths of those
who PREACH the message by a false love mindset . And sadly the lukewarm DO NOT SEE THIS .

It's so true.....nothing new under the sun! They did it to the prophets of old who tried to warn of coming judgment and the need to repent and return to the truth, and it continues to this day. God knows it will be mostly refused and rejected but still He is faithful to warn anyway.

 

[St. SteVen]

When the Caliph Othman fixed a text of the Qur'an and destroyed all the old copies which differed from his standard, he provided for the uniformity of subsequent manuscripts at the cost of their historical foundation. A classical text which rests finally on a single archetype is that which is open to the most serious suspicions.

Interesting topic, thanks.
Some discussion this topic pointed to this one.

The curious case of John 5:4

Is this for me? I'm trying to state what the OP is supposed to be telling the "fallen" believer. Must not be doing a good job of it. :( Nah, that was just a general comment. And since I'm not a moderator, I am probably out of line in doing so.

www.christianityboard.com

My understanding it that the Qur'an was originally an oral tradition.
But when those who were carrying the tradition from memory started dying off.
They need to write it down before it was lost.
The oral tradition varied widely from tribe to tribe. Thus the need to standardize the "text".

[

 

[amigo de christo]

Interesting topic, thanks.
Some discussion this topic pointed to this one.

The curious case of John 5:4

Is this for me? I'm trying to state what the OP is supposed to be telling the "fallen" believer. Must not be doing a good job of it. :( Nah, that was just a general comment. And since I'm not a moderator, I am probably out of line in doing so.

www.christianityboard.com

My understanding it that the Qur'an was originally an oral tradition.
But when those who were carrying the tradition from memory started dying off.
They need to write it down before it was lost.
The oral tradition varied widely from tribe to tribe. Thus the need to standardize the "text".

[

mayhaps it was orginally an oral tradition
But it still FALSE and of the darkness and will save none but damn all who buy into it .
I suggest and HIGHLY suggest the church gets off its rump and start reminding all about the dire need
to BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST and teaching them to observe , NOT WHAT WE PICK AND CHOOSE , BUT ALL THINGS
HE DID teach as well as the APOSTELS . Just a friendly reminder . but a dire necessary one .