Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?

[ChristinaL]

But nowhere in Scripture does it say that Jesus' "brothers" were Mary's (Jesus' mom) son's. Nowhere. Nor does it imply that. Anyone believing that is making an error when reading Scripture, and most probably using someone's personal interpretation of Scripture, which Scripture nixes in 2 Peter 1:20.

Yeah it does.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Mark 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

This is GOD's truth, Mary was an ordinary sinner who had other kids. This isnt personal interpretation

 

[Augustin56]

Yeah it does.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Mark 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

This is GOD's truth, Mary was an ordinary sinner who had other kids. This isnt personal interpretation

None of that claims them to be sons of Mary. They claim to be brothers of Jesus. And even then, as I explained, it doesn't restrict it to blood brothers. The Greek word used was adelphos. The Greek word adelphos doesn't only mean sibling in the New Testament. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It would be an error, though, to conclude that these are at least some of Mary’s other children. The New Testament proves otherwise.

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

This relatively new heresy of beliving that Mary had children isn't anything the original Church believed or taught. In fact, the Protestant Reformers, Luther and Calvin, both believed that Mary had no other children. This is something new, based on someone's erroneous personal interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Matthias]

None of that claims them to be sons of Mary. They claim to be brothers of Jesus. And even then, as I explained, it doesn't restrict it to blood brothers. The Greek word used was adelphos. The Greek word adelphos doesn't only mean sibling in the New Testament. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It would be an error, though, to conclude that these are at least some of Mary’s other children. The New Testament proves otherwise.

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

This relatively new heresy of beliving that Mary had children isn't anything the original Church believed or taught. In fact, the Protestant Reformers, Luther and Calvin, both believed that Mary had no other children. This is something new, based on someone's erroneous personal interpretation of Scripture.

Since the term adelphos is ambiguous, what is it that persuades you that “cousins” is the intended meaning rather than “brothers and sisters” when speaking about Jesus’ relatives?

 

[ChristinaL]

None of that claims them to be sons of Mary. They claim to be brothers of Jesus. And even then, as I explained, it doesn't restrict it to blood brothers. The Greek word used was adelphos. The Greek word adelphos doesn't only mean sibling in the New Testament. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It would be an error, though, to conclude that these are at least some of Mary’s other children. The New Testament proves otherwise.

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

This relatively new heresy of beliving that Mary had children isn't anything the original Church believed or taught. In fact, the Protestant Reformers, Luther and Calvin, both believed that Mary had no other children. This is something new, based on someone's erroneous personal interpretation of Scripture.

I would choose to remind you here that Luther was a Catholic priest still stuck on many false Catholic traditions. Calvin as well was a part of the RCC before he broke from it in 1530. Most early Protestant reformers were Catholic clergy or lay people. This is not erroneous personal interpretation of Scripture. I dont care what mere men say. I only care about what God teaches me in the bible and God has made it very clear that Mary was no different than any other righteous woman of her day. She was a sinner and she had other children.

You choose to get your head stuck on only one contexual use of adelphoi without understanding that it has other meanings.

 

[Augustin56]

Since the term adelphos is ambiguous, what is it that persuades you that “cousins” is the intended meaning rather than “brothers and sisters” when speaking about Jesus’ relatives?

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

 

[ChristinaL]

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

Ok now you are sounding like a robot. Not even trying to understand

 

[Matthias]

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them at the cross were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

Yes, I understand that. How do you see that in relation to the incident recorded in Mark 3?

 

[Augustin56]

Yes, I understand that. How do you see that in relation to the incident recorded in Mark 3?

Sorry. I see I need to spell it out for you. If, as you claim, adelphos is only used to mean brother, then all we need to do is provide one piece of evidence where it is not used as brother to show that there are other meanings to the word. In John 19:25, the women standing by the Cross on which Jesus was crucified included Jesus' mother, Mary, and another Mary, the wife of Cleophas. (Plus Mary of Magdela.) In Matt. 27:56, it says that Mary, the mother of James and Joseph, was present. James and Joseph were two of the "brothers" of Jesus mentioned in Matthew 13:55-56. James and Joseph could NOT have been the sons of Mary, the mother of Jesus AND Mary, the wife of Cleophas. People only get to have one blood mother, not two. Therefore, adelphos does not always mean "brother." It can mean cousin, as in this case, at least for James and Joseph. And if the other two were blood brothers, the author would have had to have made a distinction, which he did not.

 

[Matthias]

Sorry. I see I need to spell it out for you. If, as you claim, adelphos is only used to mean brother, then all we need to do is provide one piece of evidence where it is not used as brother to show that there are other meanings to the word. In John 19:25, the women standing by the Cross on which Jesus was crucified included Jesus' mother, Mary, and another Mary, the wife of Cleophas. (Plus Mary of Magdela.) In Matt. 27:56, it says that Mary, the mother of James and Joseph, was present. James and Joseph were two of the "brothers" of Jesus mentioned in Matthew 13:55-56. James and Joseph could NOT have been the sons of Mary, the mother of Jesus AND Mary, the wife of Cleophas. People only get to have one blood mother, not two. Therefore, adelphos does not always mean "brother." It can mean cousin, as in this case, at least for James and Joseph. And if the other two were blood brothers, the author would have had to have made a distinction, which he did not.

I think you’ve established that adelphos has a range of meaning. I accept the point. It doesn’t only mean “brother”. I’m sorry that didn’t come across clearly in my post to you.

What I’m inquiring about is why you believe “cousins” rather than “brothers and sisters” is the correct / intended meaning within that range in Mark 3.

My wife’s relatives are Roman Catholic. I’ve discussed it with them and they have given me a very specific reason for deciding the matter in favor of “cousins”. I’d like to compare their reason with yours. I’m leading you, or at least trying to, but don’t want to put words in your mouth.

 

[Wrangler]

What you're missing is that it's not the truth of Scripture.

LOL. The implication of a son having brothers and sisters is the mother had other sons and daughters. It's not too difficult. You cannot even admit this IS the implication of the text.

Also, another poster pointed out that Mary and Joseph did not know each other UNTIL Jesus was born. This also is an implication.

What is bizarre to me is the contrast between how common it is for married women to have sex and have children to the level of doctrine that some invest in opposing all this.

 

[ElieG12]

Sorry. I see I need to spell it out for you. If, as you claim, adelphos is only used to mean brother, then all we need to do is provide one piece of evidence where it is not used as brother to show that there are other meanings to the word. In John 19:25, the women standing by the Cross on which Jesus was crucified included Jesus' mother, Mary, and another Mary, the wife of Cleophas. (Plus Mary of Magdela.) In Matt. 27:56, it says that Mary, the mother of James and Joseph, was present. James and Joseph were two of the "brothers" of Jesus mentioned in Matthew 13:55-56. James and Joseph could NOT have been the sons of Mary, the mother of Jesus AND Mary, the wife of Cleophas. People only get to have one blood mother, not two. Therefore, adelphos does not always mean "brother." It can mean cousin, as in this case, at least for James and Joseph. And if the other two were blood brothers, the author would have had to have made a distinction, which he did not.

That is incorrect.

The "James and Joses", sons of the other Mary in Matt. 27:56, are not the same "James and Joseph" half-brothers of Jesus in Matt. 13:55,56.

This seems to be another thread about "Mary didn't have more children".

 

[ChristinaL]

That is incorrect.

The "James and Joses", sons of the other Mary in Matt. 27:56, are not the same "James and Joseph" half-brothers of Jesus in Matt. 13:55,56.

This seems to be another thread about "Mary didn't have more children".

Sadly it is. I dont know why people have such a problem believing that Mary was no different than any other housewife

 

[Matthias]

“A crowd seated around him told him, ‘Your mother and your brothers [and your sisters] are outside asking for you.’ But he said to them in reply, ‘ Who are my mother and [my] brothers?’ And looking around at those seated in the circle he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers.’”

(Mark 3:32-34, NABRE)

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 3:32-34 - New American Bible (Revised Edition)

A crowd seated around him told him, “Your mother and your brothers [and your sisters] are outside asking for you.” But he said to them in reply, “Who are my mother and [my] brothers?” And looking around at those seated in the circle he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.

www.biblegateway.com

NABRE is a Catholic translation (New American Bible Revised Edition)

Why does it not read “Your mother and your cousins are outside looking for you?

Assuming for a moment that it actually was his mother and his cousins (rather than his brothers [and sisters]) who were looking for him, what does that do to Jesus’ response? -> “Here are my mother and my cousins.”

Jesus considers his followers to be his spiritual cousins, not his spiritual brothers [and sisters]?

For the sake of comparison, another Catholic Bible.

”His mother and brothers now arrived and, standing outside, sent in a message asking for him. A crowd was sitting around him at the time the message was passed to him, ‘Your mother and brothers and sisters are outside asking for you’. He replied, Who are my mother and my brothers?’ And looking round at those sitting in a circle about him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. Anyone who does the will of God, that person is my brother and sister and mother.’”

(Mark 3:31-35, Jerusalem Bible)

Considering the range of possible meaning for adlphos, the Catholic translators again chose “brothers,“ not “cousins”.

What pushed them in that direction? They could have written “cousins” if that is what they thought the intended meaning is.

Is there a Catholic translation which reads “His mother and cousins” rather than “His mother and brothers” in the text? One that reads “Your mother and cousins” rather than “Your mother and brothers and sisters”?

What I’m driving at is “cousins” appears to be an interpretation of what is written rather than what is actually written.

 

[ElieG12]

Sadly it is. I dont know why people have such a problem believing that Mary was no different than any other housewife

Probably because they want to have a sky-goddess and mother of God.

 

[ChristinaL]

Probably because they want to have a sky-goddess and mother of God.

YUP

 

[marks]

Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)

Did everyone catch this?

Much love!

 

[ChristinaL]

Did everyone catch this?

Much love!

Not hard to look up Maria Valtorta......a mid 20th C Catholic mystic who claimed to have had conversations and received dictations from Jesus. Ummm.....no

 

[marks]

Not hard to look up Maria Valtorta......a mid 20th C Catholic mystic who claimed to have had conversations and received dictations from Jesus. Ummm.....no

I've read some of this "Poem of the Man-God", and I fully agree . . . no.

Much love!

 

[Augustin56]

I think you’ve established that adelphos has a range of meaning. I accept the point. It doesn’t only mean “brother”. I’m sorry that didn’t come across clearly in my post to you.

What I’m inquiring about is why you believe “cousins” rather than “brothers and sisters” is the correct / intended meaning within that range in Mark 3.

My wife’s relatives are Roman Catholic. I’ve discussed it with them and they have given me a very specific reason for deciding the matter in favor of “cousins”. I’d like to compare their reason with yours. I’m leading you, or at least trying to, but don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Because Matt. 27:56 proves that the James and Joseph mentioned as Jesus' "brothers" could not have been his blood brothers due to the fact that their mother was Mary, wife of Cleophas. And Mary, wife of Cleophas, was the sister of Jesus' mother, Mary. That makes James and Joseph her cousins.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes Yeshua had brothers and sisters but the Bible does not get into the detail of who their mother was….From there it is all speculation.