Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Our local Catholic brothers and sisters (and I do consider them brothers and sisters, even though most would not reciprocate with a Methodist) have posted several threads on that subject, but they all involve performing an unnatural act on Matthew 1:25.
Are you sure you want to go pick that fight?
Are you sure you want to go pick that fight?
See Roman Catholic doctrine / dogma / commentary on scripture. I haven’t found it persuasive but millions upon millions have and do.
Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?
Part I
In this post, I will show the teaching that Jesus's four brothers (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3) were His half-siblings is false.
Firstly, only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary. (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3)
Secondly, the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός'' (sing. adelphos, brother;pl. ἀδελφοί/adelphoi, brothers) has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman/kinswoman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. In the plural, it regularly refers to men and women.
In Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) are called Jesus's “ἀδελφοί” (adelphoi, brothers). The context shows that its applicable definition is "kinsman, or relative." In Gal. 1:19, Paul refers to James of the twelve apostles, and calls him Jesus's "ἀδελφός" (adelphos, brother), and the context shows that its applicable definition is "kinsman, or relative" as well. Therefore, we can deduce that the James in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, and James in Gal. 1:19, were the same person. Of the two James of the twelve apostles, only James of Alphaeus, and at least one brother of his, apostle Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus, corresponds with Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3. (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18;15:40, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13)
Now, compare the above with the scriptural and early Church Father writings below:
Two accounts of the same scene:
I. "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother called Mary, and his brothers, James, Joses (Joseph), Simon, and Judas?" (Matt. 13:55)
II. "Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses (Joseph), Judah (Jude/Judas), and Simon?" (Mk. 6:3)
Three accounts of the same scene:
I. "Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James (the Less) and Joses (Joseph), and the mother of the sons of Zebedee (Salome)." (Matt. 27:56)
II. "There were also women watching from afar, among whom were both Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses (Joseph), and Salome (the mother of the sons of Zebedee)" (Mk. 15:40)
III. "But standing by Jesus’ cross were His Mother (Mary of Joseph), His Mother’s sister Mary the wife of Clopas (the mother of James the Less and Joseph), and Mary Magdalene." (Jn. 19:25)
Two scenes surrounding the same event:
I. "When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome (the mother of the sons of Zebedee), bought spices, that they might come and anoint him." (Mk. 16:1)
II. Now they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. The other women with them told these things to the apostles." (Lk. 24:9-10)
I. "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus [Clopas], who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus (Jude/Judas), and of one Joseph." (Papias of Hierapolis [c. 60–130 AD], Fragments of Papias, Frag. 10, see Jn. 19:25)
II. "[...] James, who is called the brother of the Lord [...] as appears to me, the son of Mary sister of the mother of our Lord [...] after ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem, wrote a single epistle, which is reckoned among the seven Catholic epistles" (see Jud. 1:1) and "[...] Mary who is described as the mother of James the Less was the wife of Alphaeus and sister of Mary the Lord's mother" (Jerome of Stridon [c. 347–420 CE], De Viris Illustribus, De Perpetua Uirginitate Beatae Mariae, see Jn. 19:25)
III. Eusebius of Caesarea [c. 260–340 AD] relates the following in his Historia Ecclesiastica:
“James, the brother of the Lord, was "[...] the author of the first of the so-called catholic epistles" and that while it is disputed, "as is the case likewise with the epistle that bears the name of Jude, which is also one of the seven so-called catholic epistles", it is known they have been "[...] read publicly in very many churches." (Bk. I, ch. 23, see Jud. 1:1)
"James […] surnamed the Just [...] bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord" and "Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, 'Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.'" (Bk. II, ch. 1)
"[...] those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord [...] with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh ... pronounced Symeon [Simon], the son of Clopas [...] to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph." (Bk. III, ch. 11)
"Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify this in his writings, where he says, 'These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ.'" (Bk. II, ch. 23)
"[...] the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (Flavius Josephus [c. 37-100 CE], Antiquitates Iudaicae, Bk. XX, ch. 9)
"[...] James the Just bishop of Jerusalem" and "[...] but there were two Jameses: one called the Just [...] thrown from the pinnacle of the temple [...] and beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded." (Bk. II, ch. 1) (Clement of Alexandria [c. 150–215 AD], Hypotyposes, Bk. VII, see Ac. 12:1-2)
"[...] James the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church [...] called the Just [...]" (Bk. II, ch. 23) and "after James the Just had suffered martyrdom [...] Symeon [Simon], the son of the Lord's uncle, Clopas, was appointed the next bishop [...] because he was a cousin of the Lord." (Bk. III, ch. 22) (Hegesippus [c. 110-180 AD], Hypomnemata)
__________________________________________
Summary
The scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources (early Christian Church Fathers), even if not every surname is listed by each individual source, collectively prove the following:
In this post, I will show the teaching that Jesus's four brothers (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3) were His half-siblings is false.
Firstly, only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary. (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3)
Secondly, the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός'' (sing. adelphos, brother;pl. ἀδελφοί/adelphoi, brothers) has the following definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman/kinswoman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. In the plural, it regularly refers to men and women.
In Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) are called Jesus's “ἀδελφοί” (adelphoi, brothers). The context shows that its applicable definition is "kinsman, or relative." In Gal. 1:19, Paul refers to James of the twelve apostles, and calls him Jesus's "ἀδελφός" (adelphos, brother), and the context shows that its applicable definition is "kinsman, or relative" as well. Therefore, we can deduce that the James in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, and James in Gal. 1:19, were the same person. Of the two James of the twelve apostles, only James of Alphaeus, and at least one brother of his, apostle Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus, corresponds with Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3. (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18;15:40, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13)
Now, compare the above with the scriptural and early Church Father writings below:
Two accounts of the same scene:
I. "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother called Mary, and his brothers, James, Joses (Joseph), Simon, and Judas?" (Matt. 13:55)
II. "Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses (Joseph), Judah (Jude/Judas), and Simon?" (Mk. 6:3)
Three accounts of the same scene:
I. "Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James (the Less) and Joses (Joseph), and the mother of the sons of Zebedee (Salome)." (Matt. 27:56)
II. "There were also women watching from afar, among whom were both Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses (Joseph), and Salome (the mother of the sons of Zebedee)" (Mk. 15:40)
III. "But standing by Jesus’ cross were His Mother (Mary of Joseph), His Mother’s sister Mary the wife of Clopas (the mother of James the Less and Joseph), and Mary Magdalene." (Jn. 19:25)
Two scenes surrounding the same event:
I. "When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome (the mother of the sons of Zebedee), bought spices, that they might come and anoint him." (Mk. 16:1)
II. Now they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. The other women with them told these things to the apostles." (Lk. 24:9-10)
I. "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus [Clopas], who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus (Jude/Judas), and of one Joseph." (Papias of Hierapolis [c. 60–130 AD], Fragments of Papias, Frag. 10, see Jn. 19:25)
II. "[...] James, who is called the brother of the Lord [...] as appears to me, the son of Mary sister of the mother of our Lord [...] after ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem, wrote a single epistle, which is reckoned among the seven Catholic epistles" (see Jud. 1:1) and "[...] Mary who is described as the mother of James the Less was the wife of Alphaeus and sister of Mary the Lord's mother" (Jerome of Stridon [c. 347–420 CE], De Viris Illustribus, De Perpetua Uirginitate Beatae Mariae, see Jn. 19:25)
III. Eusebius of Caesarea [c. 260–340 AD] relates the following in his Historia Ecclesiastica:
“James, the brother of the Lord, was "[...] the author of the first of the so-called catholic epistles" and that while it is disputed, "as is the case likewise with the epistle that bears the name of Jude, which is also one of the seven so-called catholic epistles", it is known they have been "[...] read publicly in very many churches." (Bk. I, ch. 23, see Jud. 1:1)
"James […] surnamed the Just [...] bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord" and "Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, 'Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.'" (Bk. II, ch. 1)
"[...] those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord [...] with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh ... pronounced Symeon [Simon], the son of Clopas [...] to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph." (Bk. III, ch. 11)
"Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify this in his writings, where he says, 'These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ.'" (Bk. II, ch. 23)
"[...] the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (Flavius Josephus [c. 37-100 CE], Antiquitates Iudaicae, Bk. XX, ch. 9)
"[...] James the Just bishop of Jerusalem" and "[...] but there were two Jameses: one called the Just [...] thrown from the pinnacle of the temple [...] and beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded." (Bk. II, ch. 1) (Clement of Alexandria [c. 150–215 AD], Hypotyposes, Bk. VII, see Ac. 12:1-2)
"[...] James the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church [...] called the Just [...]" (Bk. II, ch. 23) and "after James the Just had suffered martyrdom [...] Symeon [Simon], the son of the Lord's uncle, Clopas, was appointed the next bishop [...] because he was a cousin of the Lord." (Bk. III, ch. 22) (Hegesippus [c. 110-180 AD], Hypomnemata)
__________________________________________
Summary
The scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources (early Christian Church Fathers), even if not every surname is listed by each individual source, collectively prove the following:
- Jesus's brothers (kinsmen/relatives) Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55 and Mk.6:3 were the sons of His Mother's Spouse's brother, Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas), and his wife Mary of Clopas (Cleophas/Alphaeus), the sister [in-law] of Mary of Joseph (Jn. 19:25), and thus His cousins
- Jesus's cousins James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus were the same people as the apostles James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas) of the Twelve
- Jesus's cousin and apostle James of Alphaeus of the Twelve was the same person as "James the Less", "James the brother of the Lord", "James the Just", "James the first bishop of Jerusalem", and the author of the Epistle of James
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Part II
Below I address other scriptural verses believed to support that Joseph and Mary had other children.
Ps. 69:8
In this verse, the Koine Greek word used is "υἱός", or "sons" in English. This verse is a foreshadowing of Jesus being made an outcast among His own people. The "mother's son's" represents others from His motherland, in this case other Jews from the land of Israel.
Matt. 1:25
In preceding verses 20-24, Matthew speaks about the ways in which the long-awaited messianic prophecy has come to fruition, such as Joseph accepting as his Spouse the Virgin Who will conceive and give birth to a Son. In verse 25, he reiterates and reinforces this by referring to a specific period: pre-birth of the Messiah, a period of known chastity between Joseph and Mary that would dispel any belief that He was not begotten by the Holy Spirit, nor born of the virgin. [Note: This in and of itself does not indicate whether Joseph and Mary did have or didn't have a carnal married life, or children, post-birth of the Messiah.]
Jn. 2:12
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were two of His four cousins, James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus, and His disciples were Peter and Andrew, who later became two of His twelve elected apostles, and they accompanied Him and His Mother to Capernaum. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31-32, Lk. 8:19-20
In this scene, Jesus's brothers who arrived with His Mother to speak with Him at Capernaum were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus. Joseph and Simon heard that Jesus had recently done carpentry work in Korazim for a widow whose husband had died, and they were angry at Him for earning money for her and her children, but not His own Mother, and were there to confront Him about it, but Jesus set them straight. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Matt. 13:57, Mk. 6:4
In this verse, the definitions for the following Koine Greek words are (I) “συγγενής” (pl. syngenēs), “kindred, akin;, as a subst. a kinsman or kinswoman, relative,” which can refer to various types of family members, (II) “οἰκία” (sing. oikia), “a house, dwelling, an abode, Mt. 2:11; 7:24, 27; trop. the bodily abode of the soul, 2 Cor. 5:1; meton. a household, family, Mt. 10:13; 12:25; meton. goods, property, means, Mt. 23:13", and in some households there’s only the parents and their only child, who may or may not have other types of family members living with them as well, and so on.
Jn. 7:3-5;10
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus, who didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, though they later came to believe this. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: IV, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Ac. 1:14
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were disciples, some of whom were the shepherds that visited Him the night of His birth. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Gal. 1:18-19
Paul mentioned that in Jerusalem he had seen Peter, one of the twelve apostles, but that he didn't see another one of the apostles, except James the Lord’s brother. The title "the Lord's brother" indicates that James was Jesus’s kinsman/relative, and the context of these verses indicates that he was also one of the Twelve. This means that he would have had to have either been apostle James of Zebedee or apostle James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary, yet still a kinsman/relative of Jesus. So, which of these apostles was Jesus's kinsman/relative, and how were they related? Refer back to post #4.
1 Cor. 9:5
In this scene, Jesus's brothers (kinsmen/relatives), more specifically cousins, were the apostles James and Judas of Alphaeus. [Note: It's not a problem that James was mentioned separately from the rest of the apostles, because in the same verse Cephas (Peter) was also mentioned separately from the rest of the apostles, though he was still one of them.]
1 Cor. 15:5;7
In 1 Cor. 15:5, Jesus appeared to the apostle Peter, then to the Twelve, and thus He was seen by Peter twice. Regarding 1 Cor. 15:7, if "all the apostles" referred to "all other apostles", then Paul, an "other” apostle, would've been included with them, but He was seen and mentioned separately from them and lastly. Therefore, Jesus appeared to one of the James of the Twelve, then to "all of the [twelve] apostles", and thus He was seen by James twice.
Below I address other scriptural verses believed to support that Joseph and Mary had other children.
Ps. 69:8
In this verse, the Koine Greek word used is "υἱός", or "sons" in English. This verse is a foreshadowing of Jesus being made an outcast among His own people. The "mother's son's" represents others from His motherland, in this case other Jews from the land of Israel.
Matt. 1:25
In preceding verses 20-24, Matthew speaks about the ways in which the long-awaited messianic prophecy has come to fruition, such as Joseph accepting as his Spouse the Virgin Who will conceive and give birth to a Son. In verse 25, he reiterates and reinforces this by referring to a specific period: pre-birth of the Messiah, a period of known chastity between Joseph and Mary that would dispel any belief that He was not begotten by the Holy Spirit, nor born of the virgin. [Note: This in and of itself does not indicate whether Joseph and Mary did have or didn't have a carnal married life, or children, post-birth of the Messiah.]
Jn. 2:12
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were two of His four cousins, James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus, and His disciples were Peter and Andrew, who later became two of His twelve elected apostles, and they accompanied Him and His Mother to Capernaum. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31-32, Lk. 8:19-20
In this scene, Jesus's brothers who arrived with His Mother to speak with Him at Capernaum were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus. Joseph and Simon heard that Jesus had recently done carpentry work in Korazim for a widow whose husband had died, and they were angry at Him for earning money for her and her children, but not His own Mother, and were there to confront Him about it, but Jesus set them straight. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Matt. 13:57, Mk. 6:4
In this verse, the definitions for the following Koine Greek words are (I) “συγγενής” (pl. syngenēs), “kindred, akin;, as a subst. a kinsman or kinswoman, relative,” which can refer to various types of family members, (II) “οἰκία” (sing. oikia), “a house, dwelling, an abode, Mt. 2:11; 7:24, 27; trop. the bodily abode of the soul, 2 Cor. 5:1; meton. a household, family, Mt. 10:13; 12:25; meton. goods, property, means, Mt. 23:13", and in some households there’s only the parents and their only child, who may or may not have other types of family members living with them as well, and so on.
Jn. 7:3-5;10
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus, who didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, though they later came to believe this. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: IV, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Ac. 1:14
In this scene, Jesus's brothers were disciples, some of whom were the shepherds that visited Him the night of His birth. Certain details aren't from any of the accounts of the Four Evangelists, as they are incomplete, but rather from The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V, where the gaps in the four Gospels of Christ, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in by Jesus through His spokesperson, Maria Valtorta. (See the first four links in my signature)
Gal. 1:18-19
Paul mentioned that in Jerusalem he had seen Peter, one of the twelve apostles, but that he didn't see another one of the apostles, except James the Lord’s brother. The title "the Lord's brother" indicates that James was Jesus’s kinsman/relative, and the context of these verses indicates that he was also one of the Twelve. This means that he would have had to have either been apostle James of Zebedee or apostle James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary, yet still a kinsman/relative of Jesus. So, which of these apostles was Jesus's kinsman/relative, and how were they related? Refer back to post #4.
1 Cor. 9:5
In this scene, Jesus's brothers (kinsmen/relatives), more specifically cousins, were the apostles James and Judas of Alphaeus. [Note: It's not a problem that James was mentioned separately from the rest of the apostles, because in the same verse Cephas (Peter) was also mentioned separately from the rest of the apostles, though he was still one of them.]
1 Cor. 15:5;7
In 1 Cor. 15:5, Jesus appeared to the apostle Peter, then to the Twelve, and thus He was seen by Peter twice. Regarding 1 Cor. 15:7, if "all the apostles" referred to "all other apostles", then Paul, an "other” apostle, would've been included with them, but He was seen and mentioned separately from them and lastly. Therefore, Jesus appeared to one of the James of the Twelve, then to "all of the [twelve] apostles", and thus He was seen by James twice.
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ChristinaL
Active Member
No. Jesus' other brothers were born of Mary. Catholics have this nonsense idea that Mary never had other kids but that is a lie. And the idea that there was another woman around is also impossible to consider as, since Joseph is not mentioned at all during Jesus' ministry there is good reason to believe he had died before Jesus began His ministry and with Mary still alive that would have made Joseph and adulterer if he was still around
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
ChristinaL
Active Member
I heard that too but that is more unscriptural Catholic teaching from those who believe Joseph was an old man when he married Mary. No evidence for that whatever.
I saw that. There is a difference in blood born brotherhood and that of brothers united in and under God in his service.
The Apostles never referred to Saul as Apostle. Because he was not as they were. Anointed by Jesus for that duty. Rather,they referred to him as brother.
Contrary to the proposal of some institutions,Mary was not a perpetual virgin. Jesus did have blood brothers.
Also, it is protocol to link to the source of an article copied and pasted as someone else's intellectual property.
Without this the pasted materials may be construed as an act of Plagiarism.
ChristinaL
Active Member
No. sorry it is perfectly true. Its not even in the bible that Joseph had other children before Mary. People who dont even know the Greek language have to quit pretending they are experts just because they use a Strongs.
Do you not have a response to any of it? And, what source wasn't linked?
Again, posts #4 and #5 show that's not true. Do you have a response to any of it?
ChristinaL
Active Member
Read the bible and stop adding words to it. that is all the response you need.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Very well researched set of posts.
What always amazed me is the idea that there is something wrong with a married woman having sex and many children. Why is it even a point of contention?
The only other I know of is in the LDS they say that the father (who has a body) had relations with a female spiritual being who is Jesus real mother not Mary.They have a very expanded theology on Christianity.Christianity keeps to the point which is Jesus.I have no idea how the LDS could come up with this or know it.Because they have the Prophet what he says is the word of God and he says it was that way and everyone has to believe.A few decades ago they use to claim he spoke to God everyday in regular conversations.
Not my cup of tea.
Not my cup of tea.
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