Could Russia be a bear?

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, the old covenant ended spiritually at Calvary, but its physical trappings persisted until 70 AD. That is why the physical destruction of Jerusalem was essential. You're missing that.

You're ignoring the Luke 21:20 identification of the abomination of desolation; and you're ignoring the historic flight of the Judaean Christians in direct response to Jesus' warning.

And you're ignoring the wisdom and discernment of acknowledged historical exegetes of the true Christian Church for 17 centuries, who were unanimous in their recognition of the historicity of the physical destruction of Jerusalem.

Dear covenantee,
You said:
Yes, the old covenant ended spiritually at Calvary, but its physical trappings persisted until 70 AD. That is why the physical destruction of Jerusalem was essential. You're missing that.

The Old Covenant was physical & outward and was based upon the works of man. It was never a spiritual covenant. When the New Covenant began, the Old Covenant ended even though the Jews did not know this truth. The physical destruction of the temple was not the A of D. You are missing how the A of D applies to a believer under the New Covenant.

When Christ said "when you see the Abomination of Desolation", Christ was addressing His Elect because it is only the Elect who will come out from Satan's deceptions after He has given them "eyes that can see". After the Elect come to this knowledge of the truth, judgment will then fall "within" them to remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature). This judgment is presented in detail in Rev 19:11-21 and Mat 24:37-41. Unless a believer sees the A of D before they die, they will not saved in this age. They will receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire and be saved at the end of the final age.

You said:
You're ignoring the Luke 21:20 identification of the abomination of desolation; and you're ignoring the historic flight of the Judaean Christians in direct response to Jesus' warning.

I am not ignoring Luke 21:20. Like Mat 24:15, that scripture is a spiritual teaching of Christ under the New Covenant and is presented in Christ's "another language" (Isa 28:9-12) which uses "spirit" words (John 6:63). Spirit words are defined by "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1Cor 2:13). In addition, spirit words should be applied "within" a person and not out in the world as you are doing. Until a believer can understand the spiritual language of Christ and apply its teachings correctly, they are not going to be able to understand the truth of Christ's New Covenant teachings. Christ (God's Word) will remain veiled to them.

Here is the scripture in Luke:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20-21 is not a teaching on the Abomination of Desolation. It is a teaching on the judgment (Day of the Lord) that follows the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is the same judgment that is described in Mat 24:37-41 and in Rev 19:11-21.

The spirit word "Jerusalem" is referring to the earthly Jerusalem (the one below/the natural) which represents a believer's worsened carnal nature. It is this carnal nature that is the source of mankind's sin. It is synonymous with the spirit words "Great Harlot", "Sodom" and "Egypt" (and even Damascus). When judgment falls on a believer, earthly Jerusalem will be removed and destroyed from within them. The "armies" are spiritual armies which are made up of Christ's angels which bring truth to the believer. One of the truths that they will bring to the believer is the knowledge of the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within them. When the believer sees the A of D (as taught in Mat 24:15), judgment will fall and destroy earthly Jerusalem. Earthly Jerusalem (the natural) will then be replaced with the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit (New Jerusalem, the spiritual).

This concept applies:

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

You said:
And you're ignoring the wisdom and discernment of acknowledged historical exegetes of the true Christian Church for 17 centuries, who were unanimous in their recognition of the historicity of the physical destruction of Jerusalem.

The "historical exegetes of the true Christian Church for 17 centuries" were apostate "babes" who were spiritually blind and under Satan's deceptions. They are the ministers of Satan mentioned in this scripture:

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

After Paul's death, the churches that he and the other apostles started all become apostate via the spirit of anti-Christ (Acts 20:29-31). Since that time, the true church has only been made up of converted believers who have passed through the apostate church. They are "few" in number and are invisible to this world.

Because all the Elect will passed through the apostate church before they die, they will ALL "see" the Abomination of Desolation during their conversion process.

For a converted believer who has "eyes that can see", scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit is all that they need to understand the truth of Christ.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

The "historical exegetes of the true Christian Church for 17 centuries" were apostate "babes" who were spiritually blind and under Satan's deceptions.

Yes, the Early Church Fathers and Reformers were "apostate "babes" who were spiritually blind and under Satan's deceptions".

Spoken like a genuine cultist.

What's the name of yours?

Go peddle your modernist imaginary figments elsewhere.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, the Early Church Fathers and Reformers were "apostate "babes" who were spiritually blind and under Satan's deceptions".

Spoken like a genuine cultist.

What's the name of yours?

Go peddle your modernist imaginary figments elsewhere.

Dear covenantee,
I was converted on Oct. 8th 2005 at the age of 44 after having spent most of my life in the apostate church. After my conversion, I never went back to any organized church because they are all apostate.

Though there are many beliefs contained in the various apostate churches of this world, they all have one common denominator - the belief in man's supposed free will ability to accept or reject Christ. This belief is the foundation that causes a believer to mix works with faith (this is the sin that leads to death). Most apostate churches don't even understand what constitutes the mixing works with faith. I have met some apostate believers who deny the Doctrine of Free Will but when you examine their beliefs, they still practice it but just don't realize it.

A believer mixes works with faith when they believe that their confession of faith or their repentance came from their own free will decision to make that choice. But the truth is, mankind has no such ability to have faith or to repent apart from Christ causing it to happen. When Christ is ready to cause an unbeliever to make a confession of faith and to enter the church, He will come to them without their asking or permission. When Christ comes, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit will give them their faith. Without the Spirit, they would remain an unbeliever until they die.

This verse applies:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road when he was on his way to persecute Christians. But everything changed for Paul immediately after Christ gave him the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul fall to his knees and called Jesus "Lord". Paul then submitted to Christ's authority over him when Paul asked Christ "what do you want me to do?" Paul was then led by the hand into Damascus. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness. In Damascus, Paul was unable to eat or drink (represents his inability to consume Christ's bread and New Wine). Paul remained in Damascus for three days in this condition. The number three represents the spiritual process that Paul was going through to become a "man of sin" in the apostate church. After the three days were complete, Christ came a second time to Paul (typed by Ananias). To arrive, Ananias (Christ) travelled on a street named "straight" (represents Paul's repentance from works which made Christ's pathway straight). When Christ arrived, Paul was staying in a house owned by a man named Judas. This represents Paul's apostate condition. To restore Paul, Paul was baptized by the Spirit (Latter Rain) which restored his salvation and healed his blindness. After Paul received the free gift of the Spirit, Paul was able to start consuming the truth of Christ for the first time.

All the Elect will travel the "type" that Paul's conversion taught. Christ does all the spiritual work of making it happen. In this age, Christ is only converting those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world to be heirs/First Fruits. The balance of mankind will die in their sins and be cast into the Lake of Fire (represents judgment, not literal fire) upon their resurrection. In the Lake of Fire, they will be judged by the Law. The penalty of sin according to the Law is death. However, before anyone perishes by this judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. This will give them the faith they need for Christ to appear to them. When Christ does, He will gather the newly born child of God to heaven. The child of the devil will remain under judgment in the Lake of Fire until he perishes. This will satisfy justice.

This verse applies to this time of judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be converted from being a child of the devil who sins into being a child of God who is sinless. This is how Christ saves the world and it happens solely by the works of Christ.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
I was converted on Oct. 8th 2005 at the age of 44 after having spent most of my life in the apostate church. After my conversion, I never went back to any organized church because they are all apostate.

Though there are many beliefs contained in the various apostate churches of this world, they all have one common denominator - the belief in man's supposed free will ability to accept or reject Christ. This belief is the foundation that causes a believer to mix works with faith (this is the sin that leads to death). Most apostate churches don't even understand what constitutes the mixing works with faith. I have met some apostate believers who deny the Doctrine of Free Will but when you examine their beliefs, they still practice it but just don't realize it.

A believer mixes works with faith when they believe that their confession of faith or their repentance came from their own free will decision to make that choice. But the truth is, mankind has no such ability to have faith or to repent apart from Christ causing it to happen. When Christ is ready to cause an unbeliever to make a confession of faith and to enter the church, He will come to them without their asking or permission. When Christ comes, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit will give them their faith. Without the Spirit, they would remain an unbeliever until they die.

This verse applies:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road when he was on his way to persecute Christians. But everything changed for Paul immediately after Christ gave him the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul fall to his knees and called Jesus "Lord". Paul then submitted to Christ's authority over him when Paul asked Christ "what do you want me to do?" Paul was then led by the hand into Damascus. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness. In Damascus, Paul was unable to eat or drink (represents his inability to consume Christ's bread and New Wine). Paul remained in Damascus for three days in this condition. The number three represents the spiritual process that Paul was going through to become a "man of sin" in the apostate church. After the three days were complete, Christ came a second time to Paul (typed by Ananias). To arrive, Ananias (Christ) travelled on a street named "straight" (represents Paul's repentance from works which made Christ's pathway straight). When Christ arrived, Paul was staying in a house owned by a man named Judas. This represents Paul's apostate condition. To restore Paul, Paul was baptized by the Spirit (Latter Rain) which restored his salvation and healed his blindness. That was after that free gift that Paul was able to start consuming the truth of Christ for the first time.

All the Elect will travel the "type" that Paul's conversion taught. Christ does all the spiritual work of making it happen. In this age, Christ is only converting those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world to be heirs/First Fruits. The balance of mankind will die in their sins and be cast into the Lake of Fire (represents judgment, not literal fire) upon their resurrection. In the Lake of Fire, they will be judged by the Law. The penalty of sin according to the Law is death. However, before anyone perishes by this judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. This will give them the faith they need for Christ to appear to them. When Christ does, He will gather the newly born child of God to heaven. The child of the devil will remain under judgment in the Lake of Fire until he perishes. This will satisfy justice.

This verse applies to this time of judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be converted from being a child of the devil who sins into being a child of God who is sinless. This is how Christ saves the world and it happens solely by the works of Christ.

Joe

Incomprehensible antiScriptural cultic gibberish.

You were converted to a gnostic cult.

Your claim that everyone and everything except yourself is apostate is a classic trademark of cultism.

Your derogation of the faith, vision, and sacrifice of the saints of the historic true Christian Church as apostate is a blasphemous abomination of desecration.

Your cultism will find no discerning audience here.

 

[covenantee]

After Paul's death, the churches that he and the other apostles started all become apostate

False.

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The true Church has endured, and will endure, throughout all ages.

God has preserved, and will preserve, a true people for Himself, throughout all ages.

 

[Brakelite]

Daniel 7
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.


I've heard differing interpretations of the above verse and I've never come to any conclusion about it.Its never really concerned me very much.But I have always entertained the idea that it could possibly be Russia with three former Soviet states representing the ribs between its teeth.Perhaps Georgia,Belarus and Ukraine.I see where Zelensky met with Biden Thursday asking to be able to use long range weapons in Russia.Great Britain wants Ukraine to be able to use storm shadow missiles in Russia and France appears to want to give the go ahead.Biden would need to lift his veto on using long range weapons on Russian territory.Now im reading where many in Washington want to give Ukraine permission to use these weapons in Russia.
What are these people thinking?
Russia has almost 6000 nuclear warheads it can use in its war against Ukraine if it is provoked to do so.

I've never been convinced who the bear in Daniel 7 is,but if Russia ends up using nukes in Ukraine then I will have been convinced the bear has devoured much flesh.

I recon we just have to watch as this thing plays out.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4904188-us-russia-relations-helsinki-report/

The report from the Helsinki Commission, which was obtained by The Hill ahead of publication, argues that Washington must reframe its thinking in how it approaches Russia, as it has with China over the past few years, and allocate resources accordingly.

A priority focus of the report’s strategy is to ensure Ukraine’s victory in its defensive war against Russia, calling for “massive” military and humanitarian assistance for Kyiv and allowing Ukraine’s armed forces to strike deep into Russia with U.S. provided weapons.





I believe these people have lost their minds.

You are applying a prophecy to present literal political powers, aka Russia, but which was applicable to a power that existed in the time of Daniel. The bear which the prophecy refers to was Meda-Persia, which conquered the lion beast of Babylon, and was itself conquered by Greece.
Whether either Russia or Ukraine uses nuclear weapons, or Israel, or anyone else, is always possible, maybe even likely, but the portion of prophecy of Daniel which you quoted, has no relevance to such an event.

 

[Brakelite]

Dear tailgator,
The bear does not represent Russia.

Here is what Paul says about how to understand spirit words (John 6:63):

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

When we compare the spirit word "bear" with how it is used elsewhere in scripture, we can discern that the spirit word "bear" represents Satan. My comments are in blue.

1Sam 17: And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock (when a carnal believer/babe becomes apostate):

1Sam 17:36 Thy servant (the converted Elect) slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine (represents the Old Man) shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies (the Elect) of the living God.

Prov 28:15 As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people (spiritually poor/carnal babes).

In the verse below, Satan (as a bear) is shown to be raised up on one side eating three ribs:

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side (represents “works”), and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh (called out believers/babes).

The number three is a symbol which represents a spiritual process and the symbol "ribs" represents mankind’s carnal and marred spirit. It is through mankind’s carnal spirit (the ribs) that Satan “devours much flesh”. From this spiritual process of Satan consuming all new believers through their carnality, a “worse than the first” (Mat 12:43-45) child of the Devil is made.

The scriptures below teach how Satan as a bear devours the church via the spirit of anti-Christ.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves (ministers of Satan who have the spirit of anti-Christ) enter in among you, not sparing the flock (100%).

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes who draw milk) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

In Mat 12:43-45, the spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first (a man of sin).

Because all new believers begin following Christ as "babes", all new believers will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken" by Satan and will enter the apostate church. Because all new believers become apostate, when Christ returns to the ones who have been chosen (the Elect), Christ will find them in this fallen away condition. To restore the Elect believer, Christ will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and heal their spiritual blindness. With their blindness healed, they will see the Abomination of Desolation which previously occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them. This will cause the Elect believer to come out from Satan's deceptions.

The two scriptures below apply to this time:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains (because judgment is about to fall):

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked (an apostate believer/man of sin) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Christ's judgment of the Elect believer is described in the verses below:

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Here is how to understand verses 40 & 41:

40 Then shall two (Holy Spirit & spirit of anti-Christ/child of God & man of sin) be in the field (represents one believer who is "working"); the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God). 41 Two women (Great Harlot & new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit) shall be grinding at the mill (represents one believer who is "working" making leavened bread); the one shall be taken (Great Harlot), and the other left (new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).

The judgment event described above completes the conversion process which changes the old vessel (child of the Devil) into the new vessel (child of God).

How Noah's flood applies:

Noah's flood is a physical "type" which teaches conversion. The ark represents Christ who protects the newly born child of God during their time of judgment (why the believer does not experience wrath during judgment). The people who die in the flood (judgment) represent the child of the Devil who is destroyed from within the believer.

All the various "end-time" prophecies are teachings on the pathway to salvation that leads to an Elect person's conversion. The Elect are the only ones who will have the "ends of the ages" come upon them before they die:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The mainstream teachings on end-time prophecy come from a carnal understanding of scripture. None of what is commonly taught is true.

Joe

Gnostic spiritualistic allegorical nonsense.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Incomprehensible antiScriptural cultic gibberish.

You were converted to a gnostic cult.

Your claim that everyone and everything except yourself is apostate is a classic trademark of cultism.

Your derogation of the faith, vision, and sacrifice of the saints of the historic true Christian Church as apostate is a blasphemous abomination of desecration.

Your cultism will find no discerning audience here.

Dear covenantee,
The truth that is presented by Paul's conversion experience is presented over and over again in scripture. You just do not have the eyes to see it.

In Rev 11, the type presented by the "two witnesses" teaches the same pathway that Paul's conversion taught. All the Elect are represented by two witnesses - they are not two figures who appear on the world scene at the literal end of the age as commonly taught.

When the two witnesses are killed by Satan and lie dead in earthly Jerusalem, this is when they became apostate and spiritually died. Their dead was not a physical death as most suppose. Christ words are spirit and they apply "within" a person. When a believer sees the death as being a physical death, they are seeing Christ (God's Word) carnally.

When the two witnesses received the "Spirit of life from God" it represented them receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Next, they rose to their feet and Christ gathered them to heaven. Again, this is spiritual event that happens within them. They do not literally rise and go to heaven. The event represents their spiritual change from being of this world to being in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the same event described in Mat 24:29-31.

Judgment of the believer then followed:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The great earthquake is a symbol for the believer being spiritually changed (converted). Instead of seeing Christ through a carnal paradigm, the believer will now see Christ through a spiritual paradigm. This occurs because Christ healed their spiritual blindness. The truth that they received is what brings judgment to them. The "tenth" part of the city (themselves) falls to represent their conversion. The seven thousand men that were slain represents the destruction of the spirit of anti-Christ which had indwelt them. The remnant that were "affrighted" were the remaining carnal thoughts and beliefs that remained within the believer's mind and which will be dealt with by Christ's chastisement and their increase in knowledge as they mature into a perfect man of full age. That judgment of the remnant of carnal beliefs is also shown in Rev 19:21.

Because Christ's teaches in His spiritual language, the truth of what I presented to you is veiled to all but those who have had their spiritual blindness healed upon their conversion.

Remember this scripture below that I presented in a previous post?

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes in Christ/Early Rain only) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The truth that Isa 28:9-12 teaches is retaught over and over again in scripture:

Here is where Christ teaches a portion of this truth again:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

One more comment: All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching portions of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. And as the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares presents, the seed of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain) and the seed of Satan (spirit of anti-Christ) will both be planted in the field (the believer) before the time of harvest arrives (Latter Rain & judgment).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of conversion for the Elect) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (have become a "man of sin") which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).

Are you able to "see" anything that these scriptures I've presented are teaching? They apply to all believers in this age if they have been chosen for salvation. None of the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel a different pathway to salvation.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

False.

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The true Church has endured, and will endure, throughout all ages.

God has preserved, and will preserve, a true people for Himself, throughout all ages.

Dear covenantee,
The true church is made up of converted Elect believers. They will experience the apostate church (the nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects of Christianity) but Christ will pull them out at the time of their harvest. Like the Wise Virgins, the Elect will be given the extra flask of oil so that Christ's pathway to them will be made straight. When Christ appears, He will gather them back to heaven for the marriage.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Gnostic spiritualistic allegorical nonsense.

Dear Brakelite,
So that is what you think of God's Word?

It is amazing that you call yourself a believer.
Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
The true church is made up of converted Elect believers. They will experience the apostate church (the nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects of Christianity) but Christ will pull them out at the time of their harvest. Like the Wise Virgins, the Elect will be given the extra flask of oil so that Christ's pathway to them will be made straight. When Christ appears, He will gather them back to heaven for the marriage.

Joe

Ephesians 3:20-21 rebuts your delusion.

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
The truth that is presented by Paul's conversion experience is presented over and over again in scripture. You just do not have the eyes to see it.

In Rev 11, the type presented by the "two witnesses" teaches the same pathway that Paul's conversion taught. All the Elect are represented by two witnesses - they are not two figures who appear on the world scene at the literal end of the age as commonly taught.

When the two witnesses are killed by Satan and lie dead in earthly Jerusalem, this is when they became apostate and spiritually died. Their dead was not a physical death as most suppose. Christ words are spirit and they apply "within" a person. When a believer sees the death as being a physical death, they are seeing Christ (God's Word) carnally.

When the two witnesses received the "Spirit of life from God" it represented them receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Next, they rose to their feet and Christ gathered them to heaven. Again, this is spiritual event that happens within them. They do not literally rise and go to heaven. The event represents their spiritual change from being of this world to being in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the same event described in Mat 24:29-31.

Judgment of the believer then followed:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The great earthquake is a symbol for the believer being spiritually changed (converted). Instead of seeing Christ through a carnal paradigm, the believer will now see Christ through a spiritual paradigm. This occurs because Christ healed their spiritual blindness. The truth that they received is what brings judgment to them. The "tenth" part of the city (themselves) falls to represent their conversion. The seven thousand men that were slain represents the destruction of the spirit of anti-Christ which had indwelt them. The remnant that were "affrighted" were the remaining carnal thoughts and beliefs that remained within the believer's mind and which will be dealt with by Christ's chastisement and their increase in knowledge as they mature into a perfect man of full age. That judgment of the remnant of carnal beliefs is also shown in Rev 19:21.

Because Christ's teaches in His spiritual language, the truth of what I presented to you is veiled to all but those who have had their spiritual blindness healed upon their conversion.

Remember this scripture below that I presented in a previous post?

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes in Christ/Early Rain only) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The truth that Isa 28:9-12 teaches is retaught over and over again in scripture:

Here is where Christ teaches a portion of this truth again:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

One more comment: All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching portions of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. And as the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares presents, the seed of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain) and the seed of Satan (spirit of anti-Christ) will both be planted in the field (the believer) before the time of harvest arrives (Latter Rain & judgment).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of conversion for the Elect) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (have become a "man of sin") which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).

Are you able to "see" anything that these scriptures I've presented are teaching? They apply to all believers in this age if they have been chosen for salvation. None of the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel a different pathway to salvation.

Joe

Save yourself time, keystrokes, and computer storage.

 

[Brakelite]

Dear Brakelite,
So that is what you think of God's Word?

It is amazing that you call yourself a believer.
Joe

That's what I think about the rambling nonsense that denies God's Word and gives plain comprehension a bad name by allegorising simple truths and making them unintelligible.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Ephesians 3:20-21 rebuts your delusion.

Dear covenantee,
The "church" is made up of faithful believers. However, since the death of Paul, the only faithful believers are the converted Elect - all the babes have been consumed by the wolves (ministers of Satan) in the apostate church and are no longer faithful.

Here is the scripture you quoted:

Eph 3:20-21 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

At the time Paul wrote his letter to the Ephesians, the "falling away" had not yet occurred. But now that the apostasy has occurred, only the converted Elect believers are the faithful and true church.

Consider what Paul said here to the Corinthians:

2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

In this scripture, Paul is using the marriage analogy which teaches the pathway to salvation. It is used throughout God's Word.

When an unbeliever receives the Early Rain of the Spirit from Christ, they become a "chaste virgin" and begin their time of waiting for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage (conversion). While a chaste virgin waits for the Bridegroom to return (the second coming of Christ), they are easy prey for Satan because the virgin remains carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, Satan will deceive the virgin and cause them to spiritually fornicate with him. Eve committed fornication with Satan in the Garden of Eden and that is why Paul mentions her in verse 3. Spiritual fornication occurs when the virgin believes what Satan tells them over what Christ has told them.

Satan's primary lie that he uses to deceive the virgin is that salvation requires a person to mix their own works with faith. The Doctrine of Free Will taught in the apostate church is this lie's foundation. The mixing of works with faith is like mixing the Old Covenant (based on man's works) with the New Covenant (based on Christ's works) or like trying to serve two masters (Satan & Christ).

When a virgin accepts Satan's lie, they are spiritually fornicating with Satan and have committed the sin that leads to death. In other words, the virgin is no longer chaste and is no longer acceptable to the Bridegroom. They have lost their salvation.

This is how Satan kills the saints and how he builds his apostate church which masquerades as the true church to this world. This is also how Satan killed the "two witnesses" in Rev 11:7 and how he kills the saints in Mat 24:9.

After a believer commits the sin of "falling away" (sin that leads to death), they cannot be renewed by repentance:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have TASTED of the heavenly gift (the Early Rain/a small amount/not the Latter Rain) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have TASTED the good word of God (Christ and Him crucified/no spiritual understanding) and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away (mix works with faith), to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But since Christ is harvesting the first fruits in this age, the Elect's days as a "man of sin" will be "shortened" (Mat 24:22) so that they can be harvested early - this is in comparison to the "many" who will be harvested later at the end of the final age (the main harvest of mankind at year's end).

To accomplish the Elect's shortening of the days, Christ will come again and give the unchaste virgin the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the virgin will be repent of her works and become faithful again. The Bridegroom will then appear and gather his virgin to heaven for the marriage to take place. After the marriage ceremony, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will occur. This is when the Bridegroom feeds his new bride his bread and New Wine. This is now possible because the virgin's spiritual blindness was healed when they received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is at this point that the bride will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them (God's temple). Judgment will then fall which will complete their conversion. This teaching is presented in Revelation chapter 19.

Other details of the marriage analogy are given in the Parable of the Ten Virgins. In that parable, both the Wise and the Foolish Virgins start off as being chaste. However, after Satan comes to all ten virgins, he will deceive them and cause them to fall away. At this point, they all sleep and slumber at night (have spiritually died) and are no longer chaste. They have spiritually fornicated with Satan.

At midnight (the deepest part of the virgin's spiritual blindness), a call will go out that the Bridegroom is returning. This is the same call that John the Baptist made to the Jewish Nation. It a call to repent of works so that the Bridegroom's path will be made straight. For the Wise Virgins, they will use the extra flask of oil (Latter Rain) which will cause them to repent of their works. The light that is oil gives off is the truth of the New Covenant (faith). They will then be restored so that the can go out to meet the Bridegroom.

The Foolish Virgins (the "many" who are called to be saints but were not chosen) will remain unchaste and will not acceptable to the Bridegroom. Upon their resurrection, the Bridegroom will say that He never knew them and will cast them into the Lake of Fire with the unbelievers. At this end of that age though, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to be restored. They will then be saved but will lose the rewards that the Bride received. This verse applies to them:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (the Wise Virgins) shall receive a reward (life during the ages and reigning with Christ). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he (the Foolish Virgins) shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (the Lake of Fire in the final age).

Does any of what I presented above make sense to you?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Save yourself time, keystrokes, and computer storage.

Dear covenantee,
Like Christ, I am long suffering with the fallen away church.

I have one final comment to make: When Christ is ready to "come again" to one of His fallen way Elect, He will cause them to pray for understanding or for anything else that only the Latter Rain of the Spirit can give them. This is the prayer that Paul was praying in Acts 9:11 which caused Ananias (Christ) to come to him and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is the same prayer Christ mentions below:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I made this prayer in 2005 and my life was changed forever. My conversion testimony from this time is presented on my website. There is a link to it just below my member name.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

At the time Paul wrote his letter to the Ephesians, the "falling away" had not yet occurred.

"Throughout all ages" meant and means that the True Church would and will never cease to be.

Whether you believe it or not.

Since you believe that everything is spiritual and nothing is physical, you do not believe in the first coming of Christ in the flesh.

That was a physical event.

 

[FaithWillDo]

"Throughout all ages" meant and means that the True Church would and will never cease to be.

Whether you believe it or not.

Since you believe that everything is spiritual and nothing is physical, you do not believe in the first coming of Christ in the flesh.

That was a physical event.

Dear covenantee,
Yes, the true church has always existed and I have not said differently. You are confusing the true church with the apostate church and its nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects in this world.

I believe that the first coming of Christ was in the flesh just as you believe.

Here's why:

When Christ came in the flesh, it was under the Old Covenant of Law. The Old Covenant is physical & outward and because it is, the works that Christ performed under the Old Covenant can be seen with human eyes. Carnally minded and spiritually blind believers (babes) have no trouble understanding the work that Christ did in the flesh under the Old Covenant.

However, spiritually blind "babes" have a great deal of difficulty understanding the spiritual work that Christ is presently doing under the New Covenant. That work cannot be seen with human eyes.

Paul encountered this spiritual blindness issue with the Corinthians church (all babes) and discussed it with them in his first letter. Paul even made these direct statements about them not being able to understand the spiritual truths of the New Covenant:

1Cor 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk (Christ and Him crucified), and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So, yes, Christ came the first time in the flesh. After a believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, this is how they "see" (understand) Christ. But when Christ appears a second time to a believer they will "see" Him spiritually after He gives them the Latter Rain. This is the moment of salvation as Paul says:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him (as virgins waiting on a Bridegroom).

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Yes, the true church has always existed and I have not said differently. You are confusing the true church with the apostate church and its nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects in this world.

I believe that the first coming of Christ was in the flesh just as you believe.

You said: "After Paul's death, the churches that he and the other apostles started all become apostate".

The confusion lies with you.

If you believe that the first coming of Christ was a physical event, why do you not believe that the destruction of Jerusalem was a physical event?

 

[FaithWillDo]

You said: "After Paul's death, the churches that he and the other apostles started all become apostate".

The confusion lies with you.

If you believe that the first coming of Christ was a physical event, why do you not believe that the destruction of Jerusalem was a physical event?

Dear covenantee,
I do believe that the destruction of Jerusalem was a physical historical event but it is not mentioned in scripture. The destruction of the Jerusalem in scripture is contained in spiritual teachings of Christ.

There are TWO spiritual Jerusalem's in the New Covenant teachings:

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to 1). Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But 2). Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

1). The Jerusalem "which now is" is a symbol for carnal mankind - and even more specifically, it represents mankind's marred and carnal spirit. This Jerusalem causes mankind to be in bondage to sin and it rules over man's mind, making it carnal as well.

The symbol "Jerusalem, which is now" has several synonymous terms: Sodom, Egypt, wicked heart and Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot.

The symbol "woman" is also used to depict mankind's marred spirit/carnal nature. Here is one example:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven (false teachings), which a WOMAN (man's carnal spirit) took (from Satan), and HID (represent deception) in three measures (a spiritual process) of meal (bread/truth), till the whole was leavened.

The leavened loaf of bread masquerades as the truth of Christ which Satan feeds to spiritually blind "babes" - making them fall away from faith. This is how Satan kills the saints and builds his apostate church. And since the leaven is hidden in the bread, the babe doesn't know that they are being deceived. This is the nature of deception - a believer cannot know that they are being deceived while it is happening. That is why when a believer's spiritual blindness is healed, they can finally come out of Satan's deceptions and see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred with themselves.

Eve and several other women in scripture are a "types" for man's carnal spirit and that is why Eve was made from Adam's rib and why the BEAR (Satan) is shown eating 3 ribs. Satan is consuming "babes" through their carnal spirits. Satan "eats the dust of the ground" and kills mankind though our carnality.

Note: Have you ever wondered why scripture says that none of Christ's bones were broken (John 19:36)? It is because the symbol "bone" represents the spirit of a person. A broken bone represents that the individual has sinned and spiritually died. Since Christ never sinned, scripture says that none of His bones were broken.

Here are some scriptures on the different symbols for earthly Jerusalem:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city (earthly Jerusalem), which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the Great Harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT (HARLOT), THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (all the world religions) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 17:18 And the woman (Great Harlot) which thou sawest is that great city (earthly Jerusalem), which reigneth over the kings of the earth (thoughts and beliefs of mankind).

The destruction of the Great Harlot/earthly Jerusalem is depicted in Rev chapter 18. This destruction happens during the conversion process of each Elect person. It is not a one time event.

2). The Jerusalem "which is above" is the New Jerusalem and it is represents the converted Elect - and even more specifically, it represents the Elect person's spirit which is governed by the Holy Spirit.

Eze 36:26 A new heart (New Jerusalem) also will I give you, and a new spirit (Holy Spirit) will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Rev 21:20 And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

One more scripture:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (OT faithful) and upon thy holy city (New Jerusalem/Elect/Bride), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Seventy weeks prophecy will be complete after Christ has saved the last Elect person in this age. The first 69 1/2 weeks were completed at the cross under the Old Covenant. Christ was crucified in the "midst" of the 70th week. This 69 1/2 weeks of years was literal time. The last 3 1/2 weeks are being completed within each Elect person under the New Covenant which is spiritual. The last 3 1/2 years begins for an Elect person when Christ gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. It ends when the person is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is converted. The time (not literal time) in between the two Rains of the Spirit is a time of drought and was "typed" by Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought. Anytime you see the symbols "time, times and a half", 42 months, 3 1/2 years or 1260 days, it is spiritual teaching on the time an Elect believer spends between them receiving the Early and Latter Rains - it is time of "great tribulation" when the believer dwells in the wilderness and becomes apostate.

Does any of this make sense to you?

Joe

 

[covenantee]

I do believe that the destruction of Jerusalem was a physical historical event but it is not mentioned in scripture.

Jesus physical birth is mentioned in Scripture.

Why is Jerusalem's physical destruction not mentioned in Scripture?