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Agree on the above.
It's not a war of words SavedInHim.
Philosophically, there is a difference between a CAUSE and a MEANS.
Yep. Calvinism's unique spin is that Man cannot have faith in Christ either until he is born again. Born again first; faith second.
This is true....calvinists believe that faith is a work.
I'm sorry that some believe this is such a light and insignificant topic when the very nature of God is at stake.
The reformed Ordo Salutis is not consistent with scripture.
(Genesis 1:1–2; Hebrews 11:1–3) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it. The Witness of John 6There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe.8He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. |
This is interesting, just my take on it not looking to argue....if you aren’t Born Again first by the Spirit Of God, then where does one’s faith come from?
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. New Living Translation But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) English Standard Version You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. Berean Standard Bible You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Berean Literal Bible Now you are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. King James Bible But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. |
1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 4There are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all people. 7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines. |
Hah! Oh, they know about Ephesians 2:8. Boy do they know about. Ephesians 2:8. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the go-to proof-text for the Calvinist trying to prove that God has to give a person faith:
But, I already know them in person....therefore I trust them because I know them.
Ok, thanks, that’s your testimony.
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. New Living Translation So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. English Standard Version And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. Berean Standard Bible And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. |
And you can see the problem. If God only gives faith to some, and those who aren't given faith get tortured with fire for all eternity, with no hope ever for redemption.... Oh well. Sucks to be them. Good thing I got mine, right?
God also says.
(Genesis 1:1–2; Hebrews 11:1–3) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it. The Witness of John 6There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe.8He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. |
I love your testimony, though I can't relate to it because my experience was different.
I find your testimony fascinating as well. Praise God!...I get a lot of insight from other people’s testimony, my friend who is Born Again, our testimonies are completely different....yet, we have one thing very much in common....JESUs!....we are joined as friends by the Lord, we became friends over a year ago, then fell out over testimonies,.then our paths crossed again this year, we both believe it’s of the Lord, we have both come to an understanding that we are not to judge each other’s testimonies....we love each other it’s like Jesus loving us from each other, as in Sisterly Love...we go shopping together and fellowship a lot together...the enemy will not break us up again we are very aware of his nasty meddling...anyway God Bless, just thought I would share that.
Ephesians 2:8 is an interesting verse....
You like to carpet bomb.
What a wonderful story.
