IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL?

[GodsGrace]

In post no. 1349 of a different thread @Christian Soldier posted the following in reply to a post of mine:

You are entitled to your opinion, just as the rest of the 8 billion people are. Just remember, your opinion is only one, so I can chose to believe yours or any one of the other 8 billion opinions out there.

This is why I chose to believe what God said, so with all due respect to ourself. I must reject your opinion and believe what God said, because you're opinion is in direct opposition to God's Word.

I see you follow the crowd, while turning your back towards God. You have placed your faith in 1500 years Roman Catholicism, while denying Gods Word. My Bible describes a great Harlot who deceives the whole world, you have come under Her strong delusion. So you're willing to trample over the blood of Christ to follow Her.

You have made your position clear and stated that "you don't want to know the truth" so I don't want to waste my time trying to share the truth with someone who hates it so mush that they have slammed the door shut on it. I will pray for you, but that's all I can do, unless God quickens you from the dead and opens your eyes.

This was my post no. 1340 to which Christian Soldier replied above:

Christian Soldier,
your post was right above a reply of mine so I coudn't help seeing it.
I say this because I also hesitate to argue about reformed theology, although, as far as I'm concerned, it would be a very important discussion for the simple reason that reformed theology changes the nature of God....no other denomination does this.

I'm not going to look at your chart because I don't know what arminianism is and don't care to learn.

I would like to say this to you.....
My feeling is that ANY theology that was INVENTED in the near past cannot be a correct theology.
I bring the JWs and the Mormons to mind.

HOW could anything that was not seen for 1,500 years possibly be correct?

Were theologians dumb before this?
And I sure hope you don't bring up Augustine...even the CC has abolished his ideas which were accepted back then for very specific reasons. No other ECF believed in destination or the absence of free will.

Just a thought...

****************************************************************************

Christian Soldier:
You've made personal statements and you don't even know me.
So please stick to the topic at hand.

I do NOT post my personal opinion of this forum about the Christian faith.
What I post is what the NT teaches and what every other denomination believes to be true...
except for the reformed.
All denominations teach the gospel of Jesus Christ...the good news.
In reformed theology there is NO good news, except of course for those few lucky ones that God chose,
and for no reason that any of them can determine except that it's God's pleasure.

I don't place my faith in 1,500 years of Roman Catholicism (as you call it).
What I said is this --- I'll repeat:

It's difficult to understand how anyone could follow a teaching that came about 1,500 years after Jesus ascension...
like for instance the JWs or the Mormons.

I went on to say that no one in the early church believed in either predestination or the absence of free will.
I also said that I hoped you wouldn't bring up Augustine....a manachaen that converted to Catholicism after 10 years of being a gnostic.

If you don't care to reply, that's fine with me.
But don't believe that YOU have the truth.

Unless two believe the same exact doctrine, we cannot know what the truth is.
There is one way....to understand the bible as an entire concept and not pick and choose verses that SEEM to agree with
your unbiblical theology.

Perhaps, one day, God will open YOUR eyes and introduce you to a God that cares for His creation,
a God that is loving, merciful, and just.

And get rid of your hatred....
it's rather harmful to your soul and spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where are you @Christian Soldier ?

 

[SavedInHim]

I do NOT post my personal opinion of this forum about the Christian faith.
What I post is what the NT teaches and what every other denomination believes to be true.
except for the reformed.
All denominations teach the gospel of Jesus Christ.the good news.
In reformed theology there is NO good news, except of course for those few lucky ones that God chose,
and for no reason that any of them can determine except that it's God's pleasure.

What is reformed theology?

 

[Windmill Charge]

What is reformed theology?

At it simplistic protestant theology at its more complex calvanistic theology.

 

[Windmill Charge]

"IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL? "
Short answer yes as Luther, Witcliff, Tyndal, Crammer, Calvin, Wesley, Edwards etc all based there theology on the bible.

There are large theological differences between these men but they all agree it is salvation through faith in Jesus, and not through good deeds.

 

[GodsGrace]

What is reformed theology?

Reformed theology, also known as Calvinism, is a theological belief system based on two primary premises:
1. Man has no free will.
2. Man is born so depraved as to be unable to reach out for God.

The above thus makes the following necessary:
God has to predetermine who will be saved and who will be lost.
Since man is unable to reach for God, it is God that has to make this decision.
AND, the decision is based on nothing that can be known by man, Calvin taught that
whomever God chooses to be saved is based solely on His "good pleasure".

This teaching was invented after the reformation and was unknown in Christianity before this time.
John Calvin was very much influenced by Augustine, a gnostic believer that became Catholic in about 400AD.
Interesting, since even the CC denies Calvinism.

If you want more detail, then you'd have to study on an acronym that was made up in the 1930's that explains calvinism very well:
T.U.L.I.P.

Here's what TULIP stands for:
T TOTAL DEPRAVITY.....man is born so totally depraved that he is unable to seek God or desire God.
U UNCONDITINAL ELECTION....It is God that chooses who will be saved based on NO CONDITION at all except that it is His will to do so.
L LIMITED ATONEMENT....This teaches that Jesus died ONLY for the elect that God chose....this is so radical that even some Calvinist theologians cannot agree with it.
I IRRESISTABLE GRACE....IF God wishes to save you, you WILL be saved....you are unable to resist God's grace.
P PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS....If God chooses you to be saved, then you will be saved no matter what.

Of course it's more complicated than all this, but it's a good start.
I would like to point out that none of TULIP is found in scripture.

Hope this was useful.

 

[GodsGrace]

At it simplistic protestant theology at its more complex calvanistic theology.

Sorry Windmill....
I wouldn't say it's Protestant theology.
Luther and Knox and Calvin are definitely of the Protestant persuasion...
however, all other denominations of the Protestant theology have left this unbiblical belief system behind.

 

[GodsGrace]

"IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL? "
Short answer yes as Luther, Witcliff, Tyndal, Crammer, Calvin, Wesley, Edwards etc all based there theology on the bible.

There are large theological differences between these men but they all agree it is salvation through faith in Jesus, and not through good deeds.

Wow!

You don't even understand what Calvinism teaches!

Calvin DID NOT teach that salvation is through faith in Jesus.
This would be what ALL OTHER denominations teach EXCEPT for the reformed.

Calvinism teaches that God will choose who is saved and who is not.
It has NOTHING to do with faith in Jesus.

Maybe you want to read my post no. 6....

 

[Ritajanice]

What is Reformed Theology?​

ANSWER

Broadly speaking, Reformed theology includes any system of belief that traces its roots back to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th Century. Of course, the Reformers themselves traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine.

Generally, Reformed theology holds to the authority of Scripture, the sovereignty of God, salvation by grace through Christ, and the necessity of evangelism. It is sometimes called Covenant theology because of its emphases on the covenant God made with Adam and the new covenant which came through Jesus Christ (Luke 22:20).

Authority of Scripture. Reformed theology teaches that the Bible is the inspired and authoritative Word of God, sufficient in all matters of faith and practice.

Sovereignty of God. Reformed theology teaches that God rules with absolute control over all creation. He has foreordained all events and is therefore never frustrated by circumstances. This does not limit the will of the creature, nor does it make God the author of sin.

Salvation by grace. Reformed theology teaches that God in His grace and mercy has chosen to redeem a people to Himself, delivering them from sin and death. The Reformed doctrine of salvation is commonly represented by the acrostic TULIP (also known as the five points of Calvinism):

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God, and can in no way please God. Total depravity also means that man will not naturally seek to know God, until God graciously prompts him to do so (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners, which no man can number (Romans 8:29-30; 9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6,11-12).

L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.” Christ took the judgment for the sin of the elect upon Himself and thereby paid for their lives with His death. In other words, He did not simply make salvation “possible,” He actually obtained it for those whom He had chosen (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God working in his heart makes him desire what he had previously resisted. That is, God’s grace will not fail to accomplish its saving work in the elect (John 6:37,44; 10:16).

P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

 

[Lambano]

IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL?​

The Reformers were certainly suspicious of the 1500 years of traditions whose end result was some of the more egregious practices of the Roman Catholic Church (most notably in Luther's mind, using the fear of God as a money-making operation, a practice in various forms that has infected the Protestant churches over the centuries also). The process that formed Reformed doctrine in both its Arminian and Calvinist implementations claims to have used Scripture and Scripture alone. However, if you've ever participated in any of the debates about predestination, etc., you know that in order to get a logically coherent theological system, you have to perform some unnatural acts on the biblical text. Or at least ignore certain verses. They say you don't want to watch sausage being made. Or systematic theology. It's an ugly process.

Everybody thinks they have The Truth. But as for people who use theology as a pretext to exalt themselves and sidestep obedience to the biblical command to love their neighbor as themselves...

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:19-23)

So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20)

 

[Lambano]

Reformed theology, also known as Calvinism, is a theological belief system based on two primary premises:
1. Man has no free will.
2. Man is born so depraved as to be unable to reach out for God.

A couple of subtle nuances are in order.

The two premises are:

1. God is sovereign over everything.
2. Man's will has been so bent by the power of Sin that he cannot please God.

 

[Ritajanice]

online commentary.

What is the core of Reformed theology?
Following the Augustinian tradition, Reformed theology teaches God's purpose of predestination in electing to salvation. This purpose is eternal, unchangeable, entirely gracious and not based on anything in humans. It is rooted in the good pleasure of God's own will to share life, love, and glory with man.

 

[Lambano]

Calvinism teaches that God will choose who is saved and who is not.
It has NOTHING to do with faith in Jesus.

Again, another subtle nuance is in order. In the Calvinist system "Faith in Jesus" is the just means through which God saves whomever He saves. The system teaches that man's will is so bent by the power of Sin that he will not have faith in Jesus, so God MAKES him have faith in Jesus in order to save him. See the difference?

Just want to make sure you're arguing against what they really believe and not against a strawman.

 

[GodsGrace]

IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL?​

The Reformers were certainly suspicious of the 1500 years of traditions whose end result was some of the more egregious practices of the Roman Catholic Church (most notably in Luther's mind, using the fear of God as a money-making operation, a practice in various forms that has infected the Protestant churches over the centuries also). The process that formed Reformed doctrine in both its Arminian and Calvinist implementations claims to have used Scripture and Scripture alone. However, if you've ever participated in any of the debates about predestination, etc., you know that in order to get a logically coherent theological system, you have to perform some unnatural acts on the biblical text. Or at least ignore certain verses. They say you don't want to watch sausage being made. Or systematic theology. It's an ugly process.

Everybody thinks they have The Truth. But as for people who use theology as a pretext to exalt themselves and sidestep obedience to the biblical command to love their neighbor as themselves...

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:19-23)

So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20)

You will know them by their fruits is wonderful.

JWs are the nicest and most loving persons I know.
Are they even Christian?

You will know them by their fruits is not enough.

Look at the posts of @Ritajanice ....
she makes Calvinism sound so nice....
but it does change the character of God, doesn't it?

We have to make up our minds as to what type of God we're serving.

One who decides who gets to go to heaven....
or one that gives EVERYONE the opportunity to go to heaven.
The difference between being a just God and NOT being a just God.

God IS JUST.
So calvinism changes the nature of God.

I think this is basically the question at hand.

 

[SavedInHim]

I get it now, GodsGrace is Roman Catholic and Christian Soldier is something other. Same old story.

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, another subtle nuance is in order. In the Calvinist system "Faith in Jesus" is the just means through which God saves whomever He saves. The system teaches that man's will is so bent by the power of Sin that he will not have faith in Jesus, so God MAKES him have faith in Jesus in order to save him. See the difference?

Just want to make sure you're arguing against what they really believe and not against a strawman.

No Lambano I don't see the difference.

If it's faith in Jesus that saves....

then it can't also be GOD PREDESTINATING me to salvation.

It's one or the other.

In Calvinism FAITH IN JESUS does NOT save a person.

GOD CHOOSING that person is what saves him.

If God MAKES US have faith then HE is choosing who will be saved.
Is that a just God?
Or a loving God?
Or a merciful God?

Maybe you need to read post 6 too.
That's Calvinism.

No strawmen here.
I have Calvin's works in front of me and two different confessions.

If you want to discuss the reformed faith, I'm ready.
If you're not sure what it is then you should find out first.

 

[GodsGrace]

I get it now, GodsGrace is Roman Catholic and Christian Soldier is something other. Same old story.

What makes you think I'm Roman Catholic?
Because I'm Protestant.

Christian Soldier is also Protestant...
but of the reformed faith.

Only the reformed believe what they believe.

 

[GodsGrace]

I get it now, GodsGrace is Roman Catholic and Christian Soldier is something other. Same old story.

BTW, SavedInHim
You should listen to everything and then make up your mind.
Catholics don't have everything wrong
and Protestants don't have everything right.

 

[GodsGrace]

online commentary.

What is the core of Reformed theology?
Following the Augustinian tradition, Reformed theology teaches God's purpose of predestination in electing to salvation. This purpose is eternal, unchangeable, entirely gracious and not based on anything in humans. It is rooted in the good pleasure of God's own will to share life, love, and glory with man.

OK
The above is correct.

Will have to leave the rest for when I get back.

 

[SavedInHim]

What makes you think I'm Roman Catholic?
Because I'm Protestant.

Christian Soldier is also Protestant..
but of the reformed faith.

Only the reformed believe what they believe.

If you're not I apologize. I've been trying to understand what was being said in the posts you originally made and I clearly misinterpreted. But most of this is making no sense to me and I'm quickly losing interest. Enjoy your war of words.